APS Bone.

[SittingBull]

Under APS Bone additional bonuses & abilities: "The character's own bones are unbreakable and he is immune to diseases of the bones!"

If the hero is made entirely of indestructible bone, with an AR of 13, what is being hurt when the hero takes damage? I had one person suggest that perhaps bones are being knocked off as he takes damage but as the damage mounts up that could impose some penalties.

Feedback?

[fbdaury]

I cite: Wolverine as an example of what happens when you take damage with indestructible bones- meat is flayed/blown off you but skeleton underneath is fine. Slam someone's brain around inside their unbreakable skull and we're talking some serious cerebral contusions and possible brain damage, etc. Basically anything INSIDE or wrapped AROUND the skeleton could still be damaged, given the right tools (weapons) and skill- imagine an ice pick through the eye socket or between the ribs, etc.- your enemies might need to be more creative or just go the brute force method but it can be done.

[SittingBull]

But what if you are nothing BUT indestructible bone?

[fbdaury]

Sorry, right- missed the APS part but even still, the power does read "The character's OWN bones are indestructible"- this reads to me that his internal skeleton is indestructible but the bone exterior would not be.

[SittingBull]

Except, one of the forms (must choose and is permanent) can be just a skeleton. So his APS form can be just his skeleton, no extra bones.

I could see that, some, for the other version where the character has a bone endoskeleton (even though there is nothing in it >.> ).



Unless they meant to put the work NEARLY in front of unbreakable; thus the AR and no damage if anything hit below the AR.

[Razorwing]

What I believe the power is referring to is when he is in his normal form (APS not active) that his bones are unbreakable.

When he activates this power, he is creating bone-like armor plating... sort of a controlled form of Paget's Disease. For an example of a hero with such a power... Spike from X-Men Evolution... especially from the last season when he started growing armor. Unlike his normal bones... these "growths" are not indestructible. Even if he changes into a more skeletal looking creature, it would stand to reason that there is a "coating" of more vulnerable bone over his normally indestructible bones. The AR in this latter case would more reflect the difficulty of hitting when bullets can pass through the empty spaces between the bones.

Additionally... while the bones themselves may not be able to be broken or shattered... that doesn't necessarily mean they can't be chipped. All it really means is that the character won't suffer fractures and such that requires the bones to be set and a cast used to keep them in place while they mend. Anything less than that should still be fair game.

[filo_clarke]

The sentence "the character's bones are unbreakable" is followed by "explosions, impacts from falls and car crashes do half damage". Which we took to mean that while the bones could not be snapped in half, there was still damage transferred to the character in some way (bone marrow was still vulnerable, maybe?). The problems I see with the power are less the direct damage issues, and more that the character is still vulnerable to gas attacks (still needs to breathe even without lungs) and can eat/ingest poison without any other internal organs to process the ingested food. This sort of suggests that there ARE organs, but can't be touched, since it specifies that hypodermic needles are ineffective because of nothing to inject them into. A very curious power with poor wording.

As a side note, I have had a player who took the minor power Indestructible Bones and major power APS Bone (Skeletal Form). Since the power specifically states that she turns into a "walking skeleton" and not a "walking skeleton covered in flesh, and still containing internal organs" we ruled that she was effectively indestructible with that particular power combo.

[eliakon]

I would say that basically you are more or less....taking damage. Quite literally.
I mean think about it, if your just an animate set of bones then sure your indestructible bones.....and what? Realistically if there was nothing else there then you would be just a bunch of dead bones on the ground in a pile. Since the player, presumably does not die when they activate their power then they are probably claiming that they have some sort of extra 'something' that allows their indestructible bones to keep together and wander around as a whole and do things. And that 'something' is what is getting beat up on. How? Good question. How does it animate them, let them see, walk, breath, talk, touch, feel, have hit points, sense pain? Same exact answer.

[Razorwing]

I think people are taking the skeletal appearance of such a character a little too literally.

The way I see the transformation is either a bony Exoskeleton forming around the character (similar to what happens with Colossus from X-Men... save with bone rather than metal) or the character's flesh (muscle, organs and skin) taking on the appearance and consistency of bone (not unlike the change the Thing went through in the first Fantastic Four movie... save with bone rather than stone). Both will give a vaguely skeletal look to such a character.

Either way, the normal bones of the character won't be broken by any means, but damage can still be inflicted upon the character... the bones that he changes into or covers himself with are not indestructible.

[filo_clarke]

I think people are taking the skeletal appearance of such a character a little too literally.

The way I see the transformation is either a bony Exoskeleton forming around the character (similar to what happens with Colossus from X-Men... save with bone rather than metal) or the character's flesh (muscle, organs and skin) taking on the appearance and consistency of bone (not unlike the change the Thing went through in the first Fantastic Four movie... save with bone rather than stone). Both will give a vaguely skeletal look to such a character.

Except that the skeleton version of the power explicitly states "he appears to be nothing more than a skeleton. Simply by laying down and not moving (he can remain as still as a corpse) the character can feign death (96% proficiency)". It doesn't say anything about taking on the consistency of bone, but rather "The super being has the ability to change himself into a walking skeleton".

I think Eliakon has the best answer; something is making you able to walk, see, taste, breathe, eat, etc. and that is what is being damaged by an attack. Whatever that "thing" is, is really up to the player/GM to decide, but there is definitely "something' that can be attacked. But the bones themselves are unbreakable, as per the power description.

[Pepsi Jedi]

I think people are taking the skeletal appearance of such a character a little too literally.

The way I see the transformation is either a bony Exoskeleton forming around the character (similar to what happens with Colossus from X-Men... save with bone rather than metal) or the character's flesh (muscle, organs and skin) taking on the appearance and consistency of bone (not unlike the change the Thing went through in the first Fantastic Four movie... save with bone rather than stone). Both will give a vaguely skeletal look to such a character.

Either way, the normal bones of the character won't be broken by any means, but damage can still be inflicted upon the character... the bones that he changes into or covers himself with are not indestructible.

not really Razor. That APS has two choices. One, where you appear to be in "Boney armor" and the other where you're an animated skeleton.

So there 'is' a literal query there. If you're nothing 'but' a skeleton and bones are indestructable, then.. yeah.

As per the OP. I just took it to mean you couldn't get a 'broken arm' or what ever in your non APS form. You didn't break your nose or your ribs. you just took damage in other ways.

If you choose the animated skeleton then damage to your skeleton is just that, but it's not a secret end run around to the Invunerable major power.

[SittingBull]

The sentence "the character's bones are unbreakable" is followed by "explosions, impacts from falls and car crashes do half damage". Which we took to mean that while the bones could not be snapped in half, there was still damage transferred to the character in some way (bone marrow was still vulnerable, maybe?). The problems I see with the power are less the direct damage issues, and more that the character is still vulnerable to gas attacks (still needs to breathe even without lungs) and can eat/ingest poison without any other internal organs to process the ingested food. This sort of suggests that there ARE organs, but can't be touched, since it specifies that hypodermic needles are ineffective because of nothing to inject them into. A very curious power with poor wording.

As a side note, I have had a player who took the minor power Indestructible Bones and major power APS Bone (Skeletal Form). Since the power specifically states that she turns into a "walking skeleton" and not a "walking skeleton covered in flesh, and still containing internal organs" we ruled that she was effectively indestructible with that particular power combo.

APS Bone can be a walking skeleton OR cover himself in a bony exoskeleton.

[SittingBull]

I think people are taking the skeletal appearance of such a character a little too literally.

The way I see the transformation is either a bony Exoskeleton forming around the character (similar to what happens with Colossus from X-Men... save with bone rather than metal) or the character's flesh (muscle, organs and skin) taking on the appearance and consistency of bone (not unlike the change the Thing went through in the first Fantastic Four movie... save with bone rather than stone). Both will give a vaguely skeletal look to such a character.

Either way, the normal bones of the character won't be broken by any means, but damage can still be inflicted upon the character... the bones that he changes into or covers himself with are not indestructible.

"The super being has the ability to change himself into a
walking skeleton or cover himself in a bony exoskeleton
(pick one, can't do both).:"

[SittingBull]

Not looking for a broken power just trying to understand it (I know, I know) as best as is possible.