Half-Alien Origins

Prodigy · Unread post by **Prodigy** » Mon Jul 20, 2015 8:31 pm

How would one translate a hero with half-alien origins but raised on Earth? Like a half Atlantean ancestory... Would you address it as an Alien?

SittingBull · Unread post by **SittingBull** » Mon Jul 20, 2015 11:22 pm

Prodigy wrote:How would one translate a hero with half-alien origins but raised on Earth? Like a half Atlantean ancestory... Would you address it as an Alien?

If its biologically possible then, off the top of my head, I would say take the atlantean stats and HALF whatever they are above human norm.

drewkitty ~..~ · Tue Jul 21, 2015 1:46 am

Prodigy wrote:How would one translate a hero with half-alien origins but raised on Earth? Like a half Atlantean ancestry... Would you address it as an Alien?

Then you would skip the char creation process to the PU2 book and make a demigod, and use the earth immortal texts.
That is the only half-breed possible in HU, w/o GM fiat.

Razorwing · Unread post by **Razorwing** » Tue Jul 21, 2015 6:24 am

Generally, Palladium doesn't allow half-breeds, thus it is very difficult to have a half-alien character. Nearly all aliens are considered separate species that are incompatible genetically, thus can not produce viable offspring with each other, let alone humanity.

The one possible exception would be human-like aliens (not humanoid, but actually human-like) that might be virtually identical to humans... even the first two paragraphs on pg 103 of AU under the Human & Humanoid Alien Races suggests that Human-like aliens may be close enough to produce offspring. Humanoid species however, while closely resembling humans are considered a different species (like Elves or Dwarves in Palladium Fantasy) and can not breed with humans.

This is the only viable possibility... in which case I would allow the character to have their attributes determined as usual, but their special powers will come from their "alien" ancestry... including flaws/drawbacks of that alien's "natural" environment.

Sir_Spirit · Unread post by **Sir_Spirit** » Tue Jul 21, 2015 7:02 am

If you wanted to be " realistic" you might claim they are a genetic "experiment" created in lab by frinedly genuises who owe their biologically incompatible parents. If you just have the main book that makes them an experiment. But if you have PU2 he could be treated as a eugenic hero.

ShadowLogan · Unread post by **ShadowLogan** » Tue Jul 21, 2015 7:53 am

Prodigy wrote:How would one translate a hero with half-alien origins but raised on Earth? Like a half Atlantean ancestory... Would you address it as an Alien?

Within known Palladium examples that come from Rifts and 2E Robotech (old discontinued Macross 2 licence is the same) there are two ways to view it.

Rifts has the view in examples that off spring with "human" and "alien human" (atlantean, Amazon, Sea Titan, etc) will result in the off spring being essentially being equal to one parent, when its even possible. Even Ogres can mate with humans, but the result will be an Ogre (this is true in Rifts and Palladium Fantasy). Otherwise Rifts has the no-half-breeds in effect, and when it happens it results in a one-or-the-other (unless Gods are involved).

2E Robotech though is a bit different (Macross 2 is the same, only different named groups). When Earthlings mate with the "alien human" (Zentreadi and Robotech Master) the result is some bonuses and possibly penalties, though not as good as being a full up native "alien human", but certainly better than the baseline Earthling. Each class of "alien human" gives different results (and Macross 2 has 1/4-alien).

Rifts approach is much simpler to implement, since in the case of RT/M2 I'm not exactly sure (off-hand) how individual bonuses are arrived at for each genetic class of alien human.

Tinker Dragoon · Sat Jul 25, 2015 4:42 am

Prodigy wrote:How would one translate a hero with half-alien origins but raised on Earth? Like a half Atlantean ancestory... Would you address it as an Alien?

In general, I suggest using the alien parent to determine attributes, appearance, environmental adaptations (possibly with a reduction in bonuses), and powers, but roll on the normal (Earthling) education table to determine skills. If I were GM, I might let you have a reasonable selection of alien tech as well.

In your specific example, however, as True Atlanteans are genetically human, I would just consider the character a standard human, much like the humans of Seeron in the Skraypers setting.

drewkitty ~..~ · Sat Jul 25, 2015 12:16 pm

Razorwing wrote:Generally, Palladium doesn't allow half-breeds, thus it is very difficult to have a half-alien character. Nearly all aliens are considered separate species that are incompatible genetically, thus can not produce viable offspring with each other, let alone humanity.

The one possible exception would be human-like aliens (not humanoid, but actually human-like) that might be virtually identical to humans... even the first two paragraphs on pg 103 of AU under the Human & Humanoid Alien Races suggests that Human-like aliens may be close enough to produce offspring. Humanoid species however, while closely resembling humans are considered a different species (like Elves or Dwarves in Palladium Fantasy) and can not breed with humans.

This is the only viable possibility... in which case I would allow the character to have their attributes determined as usual, but their special powers will come from their "alien" ancestry... including flaws/drawbacks of that alien's "natural" environment.

More accurately, what page 103 of HU:AUr said was that there are some 'human' races scattered throughout the galaxy. Some with genetic modifications and some that don't. And that it is up to GMs to decide if they have speciated far enough away from the human norm to be incapable with 'earthlings'.

Shadowknight · Sat Jul 25, 2015 12:23 pm

While I don't want to toot my on horn. But have you look at my feat list? There's a feat called Halfbreed it might be what you' re looking for.

Razorwing · Unread post by **Razorwing** » Sat Jul 25, 2015 1:25 pm

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:
Razorwing wrote:Generally, Palladium doesn't allow half-breeds, thus it is very difficult to have a half-alien character. Nearly all aliens are considered separate species that are incompatible genetically, thus can not produce viable offspring with each other, let alone humanity.

The one possible exception would be human-like aliens (not humanoid, but actually human-like) that might be virtually identical to humans... even the first two paragraphs on pg 103 of AU under the Human & Humanoid Alien Races suggests that Human-like aliens may be close enough to produce offspring. Humanoid species however, while closely resembling humans are considered a different species (like Elves or Dwarves in Palladium Fantasy) and can not breed with humans.

This is the only viable possibility... in which case I would allow the character to have their attributes determined as usual, but their special powers will come from their "alien" ancestry... including flaws/drawbacks of that alien's "natural" environment.

More accurately, what page 103 of HU:AUr said was that there are some 'human' races scattered throughout the galaxy. Some with genetic modifications and some that don't. And that it is up to GMs to decide if they have speciated far enough away from the human norm to be incapable with 'earthlings'.

In other words, it is probably the only way the OP could get the half-alien origin he is looking for (sans using established offshoots of Earth humans like Atlantians).

drewkitty ~..~ · Sat Jul 25, 2015 9:31 pm

So long as the "alien" is "Human" that earthlings can mate with...yes, one partent might be of off-world origen, but it would not be a half-breed.

Cobalt-Blue · Unread post by **Cobalt-Blue** » Sat Aug 08, 2015 10:13 pm

Just roll him up as an alien, maybe give him a more human appearance, and then give him the standard Earth Education build--which by the way, it and the equipment information is over a decade out of date and is in serious need of an official update.

Daniel Stoker · Mon Aug 10, 2015 10:46 am

Sadly we're not likely to see either updated anytime in the near future... or not so near future. (I admit I still shame my head every time I read the computer repair skill and think of an old episode of the Rockford files.)

Daniel Stoker

Cobalt-Blue · Unread post by **Cobalt-Blue** » Mon Aug 10, 2015 10:57 am

Daniel Stoker wrote:Sadly we're not likely to see either updated anytime in the near future... or not so near future. (I admit I still shame my head every time I read the computer repair skill and think of an old episode of the Rockford files.)

Daniel Stoker

One wonders "why?" Superhero movies are blockbusters right now and would appear to continue to be through the next couple of years. (Fantastic Four notwithstanding). This is the perfect time to streamline, update and bring Heroes Unlimited into the 21st Century and make it truly unlimited. I recognize that I'm probably in a small minority here, but I'll buy almost anything HU related before I'll even consider opening a Rifts, or Dead Reign book, or almost any other title by Palladium with the possible exception of Beyond the Supernatural.

Pepsi Jedi · Unread post by **Pepsi Jedi** » Tue Aug 11, 2015 12:33 am

Prodigy wrote:How would one translate a hero with half-alien origins but raised on Earth? Like a half Atlantean ancestory... Would you address it as an Alien?

Yeah. I'd just make it as an 'alien' but with modified stats off your base alien breed. "Down" not 'Up'.

No need getting too complex. Aliens can fit into other categories too. Alien Mutants, Alien experiments Alien hardware, etc.

Pepsi Jedi · Unread post by **Pepsi Jedi** » Tue Aug 11, 2015 12:34 am

Cobalt-Blue wrote:
Daniel Stoker wrote:Sadly we're not likely to see either updated anytime in the near future... or not so near future. (I admit I still shame my head every time I read the computer repair skill and think of an old episode of the Rockford files.)

Daniel Stoker

One wonders "why?" Superhero movies are blockbusters right now and would appear to continue to be through the next couple of years. (Fantastic Four notwithstanding). This is the perfect time to streamline, update and bring Heroes Unlimited into the 21st Century and make it truly unlimited. I recognize that I'm probably in a small minority here, but I'll buy almost anything HU related before I'll even consider opening a Rifts, or Dead Reign book, or almost any other title by Palladium with the possible exception of Beyond the Supernatural.

I went and saw it (Fantastic Four), to MST3K it, and... it's not actually THAT BAD. It's getting a bad rap but it's had like a year of bad press before it even came out. It's better than the previous two FF movies. (Not that, that says much) But it's not barf inducing horrible.

It's not Avengers, or Guardians. It's not even Antman (Which I happened to have liked) but it's not as horrible as people are making out. I'd give it 2 stars out of 5.

And the actual effects were pretty good for Thing, Johnny and Sue. Decent for Reed. (We're not going to talk about Doom.)

The Artist Formerly · Mon Oct 05, 2015 1:14 pm

I'd use the mutant table. Make it easy on yourself. Pick powers and (potentially) abnormalities that seem to connect with alien origin. You can do the same with the experiment table if you like. The GMs guide, Doctor Fright has a hench woman who was an alien experiment (the girl with the awful hair cut from "angels to some"). So it's not a huge leap.

Pepsi Jedi · Unread post by **Pepsi Jedi** » Wed Oct 07, 2015 1:55 pm

There 'can' be alien mutants and alien experiments. Doesn't make um less alien.

Brayon · Unread post by **Brayon** » Wed Oct 07, 2015 2:22 pm

Prodigy wrote:How would one translate a hero with half-alien origins but raised on Earth? Like a half Atlantean ancestory... Would you address it as an Alien?

As others have mentioned, by Canon rules, there are no Half-Breeds of any kind. It would be purely in the realm of the GM to Home Rule it, & to set what attribute rolls he will allow in his game. Again, others have mentioned there are Alien tables in the Core Book, & Aliens Unllimited can also be used, for a purely Alien P.C.

If you're looking for a Canon legal P.C., my advice would be to us the Power Category of Experiment, & tweak the Background. The P.C.'s parents had fertility issues, & went to Fantastic Bob's Clinic. Unknown to them, Bob's was a front for a Genetics lab, who spliced the Parent's DNA with Alien DNA. Implanted into mother, thinking everything is alright, & 9 months later, P.C. is born with some ever special abilities. The Genetics Lab, of course would want to do follow ups, & become his Lifelong Doctor to monitor, all remotely.... :-)

Daniel Stoker · Wed Oct 07, 2015 4:14 pm

Well there IS one canon half-breed capable race that is an alien, but that's the Kirn from Manhunter which can breed with other races.

Daniel Stoker

say652 · Unread post by **say652** » Wed Oct 07, 2015 5:41 pm

After much thought, i agree with the line of reasoning of....
If half human half whatever, then half bonuses from the half race seem fair.

But certain races Sea titan or ogre for example, they offspring is always an ogre or sea titan.
A similiar ruling for Atlanteans seems fairly legit, as gm unless raised by Atlanteans would limit knowledge of magic tattoos.

Nekira Sudacne · Wed Oct 07, 2015 6:26 pm

Daniel Stoker wrote:Well there IS one canon half-breed capable race that is an alien, but that's the Kirn from Manhunter which can breed with other races.

Daniel Stoker

That dosn't result in a halfbreed though, the child is always a Kirn.

Razorwing · Unread post by **Razorwing** » Wed Oct 07, 2015 10:09 pm

It really doesn't have to be this complicated.

There are really only two questions that need to be asked.

1) Can the two species breed and produce a viable offspring? If not, then it doesn't really matter.

2) Assuming that the two species can interbreed... the choice is simple... does the character take after their alien or human parent? If the character takes after the human parent then treat them as human (possibly with the potential of passing on the alien potential to future generations). If the character takes after the alien parent... treat them as a member of that race... though any future offspring might still take after their human ancestor.

There really is no need to make things more complicated than this... figuring out half-bonuses and such.

Daniel Stoker · Thu Oct 08, 2015 9:32 pm

Nekira Sudacne wrote:That dosn't result in a halfbreed though, the child is always a Kirn.

It says they have "Adaptive Reproduction" and mention they can breed with Terran and Chiropti among other humans but I don't see what the kids will be either way.

Daniel Stoker

drewkitty ~..~ · Thu Oct 08, 2015 11:08 pm

Daniel Stoker wrote:
Nekira Sudacne wrote:That doesn't result in a halfbreed though, the child is always a Kirn.

It says they have "Adaptive Reproduction" and mention they can breed with Terran and Chiropti among other humans but I don't see what the kids will be either way.

Daniel Stoker

1st, why even bring up the Kirn at all? It's not like any of the new-players will even have access to the Manhunter book.

That the stat's of a kirn-other mating is not discussed in the Rifts manhunter text is true, the artwork in the book does say that the children of such a pairing does take on aspects of both of the parents' appearances.
Like with all the non-humans that can bread with humans they have a special reason why they can. Which does say that only those races with those special reasons can hope crossbreed with other races.

Brayon · Unread post by **Brayon** » Thu Oct 08, 2015 11:36 pm

What is "Manhunter?" Is it a supplement or something?

Nightmask · Unread post by **Nightmask** » Fri Oct 09, 2015 2:48 am

Brayon wrote:What is "Manhunter?" Is it a supplement or something?

It's a rare third party (I believe that's how it's called) Rifts book, featuring an alternate universe from another company where a number of interstellar races interact. The Kirn are a felinoid race whose genetics are flexible enough to violate Palladium's general rule against inter-species mating allowing them to mate with at least some other species like humans. The question is are the offspring basically half-Kirn/half-whatever or are they straight-up Kirn. Given the wording about their genetics being flexible I'd think the offspring of say a Kirn and a Human would be a Kirn and not a half-Kirn/Half-Human.

Brayon · Unread post by **Brayon** » Fri Oct 09, 2015 9:14 am

Thanks Nightmask. :-)

Pepsi Jedi · Unread post by **Pepsi Jedi** » Fri Oct 09, 2015 11:11 am

I always thought that the 'No breeding' rule wasn't founded in science of any sort, but more Palladium just didn't wanna hassle with it, so they dodged. I'm not saying there's NOT science to explain it. I'm just saying the feel I always got wasn't a scientific objection but more a "God I don't wanna have to write all that.... Just say it can't happen" sort of thing.

Daniel Stoker · Fri Oct 09, 2015 11:23 am

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:1st, why even bring up the Kirn at all? It's not like any of the new-players will even have access to the Manhunter book.

That the stat's of a kirn-other mating is not discussed in the Rifts manhunter text is true, the artwork in the book does say that the children of such a pairing does take on aspects of both of the parents' appearances.
Like with all the non-humans that can bread with humans they have a special reason why they can. Which does say that only those races with those special reasons can hope crossbreed with other races.

Why? Because he said there was no canon rules allowing half breeds and I figured I’d toss an example where there was canon rules allowing it; and if it’s possible there I can see using that to argue it should (rarely) be possible elsewhere even if apparently heavily frowned upon.

Daniel Stoker

Nightmask · Unread post by **Nightmask** » Fri Oct 09, 2015 8:51 pm

Brayon wrote:Thanks Nightmask.

Glad to be of help.

say652 · Unread post by **say652** » Fri Oct 09, 2015 9:11 pm

Daniel Stoker wrote:
drewkitty ~..~ wrote:1st, why even bring up the Kirn at all? It's not like any of the new-players will even have access to the Manhunter book.

That the stat's of a kirn-other mating is not discussed in the Rifts manhunter text is true, the artwork in the book does say that the children of such a pairing does take on aspects of both of the parents' appearances.
Like with all the non-humans that can bread with humans they have a special reason why they can. Which does say that only those races with those special reasons can hope crossbreed with other races.

Why? Because he said there was no canon rules allowing half breeds and I figured I’d toss an example where there was canon rules allowing it; and if it’s possible there I can see using that to argue it should (rarely) be possible elsewhere even if apparently heavily frowned upon.

Daniel Stoker

The three Say652 answers.
1 the child is a human, players choice of two mutant traits or be minor psionic. Gm freebie.

2 the childs the other Race, Elf for example but has a normal human appearance. Elf abilities Human Appearance.

3 the child is a hybrid of the two races Orc/Dwarf with half of each races bonuses.
As a Hybrid they can only bread with ther hybrids of the same races.
Both parent races will react negatively to Hybrids, no exceptions.

These are just my opinions and i do use them as house rules. Each applied as situationally dictated.

Nightmask · Unread post by **Nightmask** » Sat Oct 10, 2015 3:16 am

say652 wrote:
Daniel Stoker wrote:
drewkitty ~..~ wrote:1st, why even bring up the Kirn at all? It's not like any of the new-players will even have access to the Manhunter book.

That the stat's of a kirn-other mating is not discussed in the Rifts manhunter text is true, the artwork in the book does say that the children of such a pairing does take on aspects of both of the parents' appearances.
Like with all the non-humans that can bread with humans they have a special reason why they can. Which does say that only those races with those special reasons can hope crossbreed with other races.

Why? Because he said there was no canon rules allowing half breeds and I figured I’d toss an example where there was canon rules allowing it; and if it’s possible there I can see using that to argue it should (rarely) be possible elsewhere even if apparently heavily frowned upon.

Daniel Stoker

The three Say652 answers.
1 the child is a human, players choice of two mutant traits or be minor psionic. Gm freebie.

2 the childs the other Race, Elf for example but has a normal human appearance. Elf abilities Human Appearance.

3 the child is a hybrid of the two races Orc/Dwarf with half of each races bonuses.
As a Hybrid they can only bread with ther hybrids of the same races.
Both parent races will react negatively to Hybrids, no exceptions.

These are just my opinions and i do use them as house rules. Each applied as situationally dictated.

Okay, so why would both parent races be negative without exception to hybrids? That's not very logical without a VERY good explanation, like hybrids often or always having dangerous or heretical powers that would cause both sides to reject them but even then EVERYONE shouldn't have problems with hybrids, particularly since the two races apparently don't have enough issue with them to avoid the sex that creates them.

gaby · Unread post by **gaby** » Tue Oct 27, 2015 5:05 pm

I say only the human like Races from Aliens unlimited have a chance to have a kid with a Earth,s human.

The Artist Formerly · Wed Oct 28, 2015 1:10 am

Mutant. Different flavor text, but the same basic feeling.

Pepsi Jedi · Unread post by **Pepsi Jedi** » Wed Oct 28, 2015 12:05 pm

It's fiction. If your GM wants them to be able to breed. BOOM they can breed. If not. Not.

Scientifily there would be almost 0% chance a creature from another planet would have any possible way to breed with one of ours. the DNA make up would be (pardon the wordage here) Too alien.

Most species on this planet can't even cross breed.

That said, it's fiction. It's a popular trope in fiction. If you want to do it. have a party. Don't let pesky things like 'real world science' hold you back. This is a game about superheroes. The 'science" isn't going to explain how someone blasts plasma from his eyeballs afterall.

Razorwing · Unread post by **Razorwing** » Fri Oct 30, 2015 12:11 am

PJ... considering many of the wild conspiracy theories of human/alien hybrids floating around in the real world... not to mention the lack of any "reliable" alien contact with our species... the amount of scientific proof that it would be impossible to breed with a life-form from another world is... well... just not there. You can't say that it is scientifically proven to be impossible with out actual scientific proof... which doesn't exist since we have yet to find any alien life... let alone life that might be compatible genetically with ours.

That said... the Heroes Unlimited universe does have a vast number of alien races... including some that are practically indistinguishable from humans. The setting even presents this as a mystery that may never be solved as to how human-like races are so numerous. It could end up being something like in Farscape/Stargate where ancient humans were taken from a single source and seeded on other worlds... or even parallel evolution in very similar environments (even if astronomically unlikely, it is still within the realm of possibility). That any of these human-like species could be able to breed with Earth humans and produce viable offspring is a possibility (one that GMs will need to decide for themselves).

As for how to deal with the possibility of these offspring having powers... why complicate things with trying to figure out just how the DNA combines? There really is no need to calculate half the bonuses from each parent and such. Just determine if the child takes after the human or alien parent... and consider them a member of that race... with all the potential for power that comes with it. There is no need to over thing these things. It really is no different that deciding if a child of a mutant and a normal human is normal or a mutant... or if the genetic tweeks given to a Super Soldier/Experiment will be passed on to any children they have afterwards (there is at least one example of a descendant of an Experiment getting powers when the original subject didn't).

The whole Half-Alien idea is really the wrong way of looking at this subject... and leads to a vast over complication of what should really be mere flavor for a beings background. Perhaps one of these human-like aliens was here studying Earth and had a relationship with one (either as part of its cover, as an experiment... or against orders [not unlike the movie/TV series Starman]). Overcomplicating it with trying to create a hybridization of the two species (with the character getting half the bonuses from each) really doesn't add much to the fun of the character... only add a further layer of complication that may turn a player away from such a character.

The one example of cross-species breeding within all of Palladium is between Humans and Ogres... and even in this case, the children produced are usually considered to be Ogres (in that they get all the bonuses and features of that race). There is no half-ogre template to measure just how much of their ogre ancestry they get. They don't add half the bonuses of their Ogre parent to that of their human one. For all intents and purposes... they are treated as Ogres. That said, having some human blood in the mix could justify a higher roll for IQ as well as a lower roll for PS for such a character (though these rolls would still be within the norms for Ogres in general). All their human or ogre ancestry is just really flavor for the character's background.

In my opinion... this is they way it should be for any of these half-aliens. Treat them as either human or alien and keep the rest as mere background flavor.

Daniel Stoker · Fri Oct 30, 2015 11:27 am

Considering the fact that we can't come close to breeding with chimps one of our closest relatives here on the planet the odds of being able to successfully mate with something from another planet is.... well.... very very very VERY slim.

Now since we're talking about all this in a game where guys throw lightning bolts from their fingers and can blow themselves up and then reform…. Screw reality and I say go for it as it’s a pretty common trope in both comic books and fantasy and sci-fi stories.

Daniel Stoker

Pepsi Jedi · Unread post by **Pepsi Jedi** » Sun Nov 01, 2015 9:48 pm

Sorry Razorwing, I don't generally deputize conspiracy theory into my scientific thought processes, if I'm trying to be moderately serious.