Max number of Minors?

[Pepsi Jedi]

Working on a concept.
Concept, by load out, needs 8 minors.
Typically I think 5 can be found around.

Anyone know of a way to get to 8?

[Pepsi Jedi]

Alternatively, a way to combine these powers, would work too. For instance a power that gave a combo deal or something.

Heightened sense of Balance,
Lightning Reflexes,
Heightened sense of Hearing,
Motion Detection,
Heightened sense of Smell,
Radar
Heightened sense of Touch,
Heightened sense of Taste.


Technically Radar covers "motion detection" for the most part, so I could drop that and get down to 7. It'd be nice to have it but I could drop it if I had to.

I'm looking for 'RAW'.

I very simply could create a major "Heightened senses" and cover the Balance, hearing, smell, touch and taste under one major, but again. Trying to keep it RAW if I can.

[Pepsi Jedi]

Actually... never mind. *Blushes* The actual hero category has this exact option.

it was a little hidden but it's there. "Three Majors and two minors, OR Seven Minors."

So, I drop Motion Detection and I get it, -in- the class that fits the concept.

1: Heightened sense of Balance,
2: Lightning Reflexes,
3: Heightened sense of Hearing,
4: Heightened sense of Smell,
5: Radar
6: Heightened sense of Touch,
7: Heightened sense of Taste.

[NMI]

There is a race in Aliens Unlimited, human-like, military based structure, where members of said race can have up to 2 Majors and 5 minors.
Name of the race is "Arismal"

[NMI]

Alternatively, a way to combine these powers, would work too. For instance a power that gave a combo deal or something.

Heightened sense of Balance,
Lightning Reflexes,
Heightened sense of Hearing,
Motion Detection,
Heightened sense of Smell,
Radar
Heightened sense of Touch,
Heightened sense of Taste.


Technically Radar covers "motion detection" for the most part, so I could drop that and get down to 7. It'd be nice to have it but I could drop it if I had to.

I'm looking for 'RAW'.

I very simply could create a major "Heightened senses" and cover the Balance, hearing, smell, touch and taste under one major, but again. Trying to keep it RAW if I can.

In the original HU1 unrevised, "hearing - smell - touch - taste" all did fall under 1 major ability.

[flatline]

I've known several GMs who let you trade a major power for 3 minor powers, so if you start with 3 major, you'd be able to trade them in for as many as 9 minor.

But that's up to your GM.

--flatline

[Razorwing]

I do believe that some of the Mutant options under unstable powers (grows in power with experience) allows for the possibility of a large number of minor powers... then it could also be the continuous mutation (one of them lets you roll to see if each new power is a Major or a Minor... though I'm sure most GMs would allow you to skill such a role for a minor power; it is the more likely outcome).

[Glistam]

Powers Unlimited 3 has an option in the Major Power random table that allows you to choose two minors instead. So by book canon, one major power can be traded out for two major powers.

[Pepsi Jedi]

With that optional switch. I could skirt the rules for 8 instead of 7.

The Power catagory has a chart. The last option on the chart reads 3 majors and 2 minors OR 7 minors.

I guess I could say I took the 3+2 and converted them to get 2+2+2+2 for 8.. though it's sort of an ehhh way to do it.

That said, "heightened sense of taste" while needed for the concept, is pretty lame. I wouldn't feel too bad skirting the edge of a rule to get another in there.

[Daniel Stoker]

Just out of curiosity why not drop Lighting Reflexes for Extraordinary Physical Prowess as the only real plus it offers is the +3 to Initiative and E: PP gives you the PP bonuses as well as an extra D4 in speed?


Daniel Stoker

[Damian Magecraft]

Just out of curiosity why not drop Lighting Reflexes for Extraordinary Physical Prowess as the only real plus it offers is the +3 to Initiative and E: PP gives you the PP bonuses as well as an extra D4 in speed?


Daniel Stoker

because optimizing it does not really fit the concept?

[Daniel Stoker]

Possibly? Or maybe he didn't really look and compare the 2? Or just didn't think of it, which is why I asked.


Daniel Stoker

[Pepsi Jedi]

Damian's actually correct in this case. The concept that I'm building.. reflects having lightning reflexes. The char -is- very agile. No doubt, but the one power fits the concept a bit better. The lightning reflexes in conjunction with the radar and heightened senses is the guys 'thing'.

I'm not actually trying to pick the best that could be picked etc. If so I mean... I wouldn't chose Heightened taste. That's going to come into use rarely at the very very best of cases and only then when your GM throws you a bone because he knows you have the power.

[Daniel Stoker]

Makes sense, I just wasn’t sure and besides the Initiative bonus Lighting Reflexes seemed a bit redundant to me.


Daniel Stoker

[Pepsi Jedi]

The difference is a little more rounded out.

Lightning reflexes represent.. well heightened reaction time and -reflexes- vs all around agility and dexterity. The char -is- very agile but the reflexes couple with the other powers well.

LR Gives the slight speed bump, +1 Attack, +3 to autododge and gives Auto dodge which the char -would- have. It also gives paired weapons which the char would have, +3 inits, +1 Disarm +3 Pull punch, +2 Roll.

ExtraPP Gives +2D4PP, A bit more speed bump, +1 attack, +3 Auto dodge.

So you get the extra PP (Which is always nice) but it's not like it's hugely better.

LR combines with the -other- powers in the group to work out to +14 to Inits, before I even give him physical skills and a Martial art.

_That_ is also reflective of the char I'm building, as he senses and reacts fast to things around him. And he uses paired weapons alot.

More or less though it's flavor to taste. Energy Expulsion Energy might be a bit stronger than Energy Expulsion Fire (Or whatever) but if the concept calls for a guy that shoots fire from his hands, you choose fire, because that's who/what you're playing.

[mellowmaveric]

Ultimately, it's up to the GM's discretion. You could have undergone more than one experimental treatment, had a diverse bloodline or just hit the genetic jackpot.

[The Artist Formerly]

Build him as a super soldier from PU 2. Four minors and the three super soldier options that increase your speed, balance and targeting ability. Use a mutant, small stat bump, extra SDC and you can ask for one of the advantageous bits on the mutant abnormality chart.

That said, this is a terrible build. You have a high intensity gun fighter, but you're using speed in place of damage absorption. Which will draw high intensity fire right back at you. One natural 20 from a chump with a 10mm pistol shooting back at you and you're in serious trouble (that's 4d6+2 or 16 points on average, times 3 for the nat 20 fired on burst mode, 54 points!!!!!). Even with good human SDC (say 30 base, + another 30 from physical skills) You're screwed. That's one thug, with one gun. And that's only if they get lucky. Consider what happens if they roll decent and you choke on a auto-dodge check.

[Regularguy]

That said, this is a terrible build. You have a high intensity gun fighter, but you're using speed in place of damage absorption. Which will draw high intensity fire right back at you. One natural 20 from a chump with a 10mm pistol shooting back at you and you're in serious trouble (that's 4d6+2 or 16 points on average, times 3 for the nat 20 fired on burst mode, 54 points!!!!!). Even with good human SDC (say 30 base, + another 30 from physical skills) You're screwed. That's one thug, with one gun. And that's only if they get lucky. Consider what happens if they roll decent and you choke on a auto-dodge check.

You could build him as a Mega-Hero, buying Tremendous SDC at the cost of being legally blind; he'll routinely come out of fights bruised and maybe spitting a little blood out of his mouth, but any thug actually gunning for our hero's hit points has to get past hundreds of bonus points of violently-throwing-himself-to-the-side defenses first.

[Pepsi Jedi]

Actually guys I kinda sorta answered my own question a few min after I posted it. lol Totally 'book legal' in the Power class I'm aiming for.

For the record he's not a gun fighter at all.

He will have a 'super suit' (armored costume. not robo armor or anything) to help mitigate the 'get shot once and die' thing, but he's not a mega hero. If anything he's street level that gets bigger as he goes.

[The Artist Formerly]

That said, this is a terrible build. You have a high intensity gun fighter, but you're using speed in place of damage absorption. Which will draw high intensity fire right back at you. One natural 20 from a chump with a 10mm pistol shooting back at you and you're in serious trouble (that's 4d6+2 or 16 points on average, times 3 for the nat 20 fired on burst mode, 54 points!!!!!). Even with good human SDC (say 30 base, + another 30 from physical skills) You're screwed. That's one thug, with one gun. And that's only if they get lucky. Consider what happens if they roll decent and you choke on a auto-dodge check.

You could build him as a Mega-Hero, buying Tremendous SDC at the cost of being legally blind; he'll routinely come out of fights bruised and maybe spitting a little blood out of his mouth, but any thug actually gunning for our hero's hit points has to get past hundreds of bonus points of violently-throwing-himself-to-the-side defenses first.

Eh... Then he has to eat a monster XP penalty for a trick build.
I'd go with the super soldier option, the three super soldier selections I suggested, Lit Reflexes, Radar, something of choice and Healing factor. Whatever he can't evade, he can tank and regenerate.

[The Artist Formerly]

Actually guys I kinda sorta answered my own question a few min after I posted it. lol Totally 'book legal' in the Power class I'm aiming for.

For the record he's not a gun fighter at all.

He will have a 'super suit' (armored costume. not robo armor or anything) to help mitigate the 'get shot once and die' thing, but he's not a mega hero. If anything he's street level that gets bigger as he goes.

I think your wrong.

But... Use the AR to soak house rules. AR 12 vs a natural 20 is as spectacularly useless as any roll to auto-dodge that isn't also a natural 20.

[Pepsi Jedi]

Actually guys I kinda sorta answered my own question a few min after I posted it. lol Totally 'book legal' in the Power class I'm aiming for.

For the record he's not a gun fighter at all.

He will have a 'super suit' (armored costume. not robo armor or anything) to help mitigate the 'get shot once and die' thing, but he's not a mega hero. If anything he's street level that gets bigger as he goes.

I think your wrong.

But... Use the AR to soak house rules. AR 12 vs a natural 20 is as spectacularly useless as any roll to auto-dodge that isn't also a natural 20.

I'm not really sure what your point is here? That a natural 20 hurts? yeah. Hurts most anyone hit with it... ?

[The Artist Formerly]

Actually guys I kinda sorta answered my own question a few min after I posted it. lol Totally 'book legal' in the Power class I'm aiming for.

For the record he's not a gun fighter at all.

He will have a 'super suit' (armored costume. not robo armor or anything) to help mitigate the 'get shot once and die' thing, but he's not a mega hero. If anything he's street level that gets bigger as he goes.

I think your wrong.

But... Use the AR to soak house rules. AR 12 vs a natural 20 is as spectacularly useless as any roll to auto-dodge that isn't also a natural 20.

I'm not really sure what your point is here? That a natural 20 hurts? yeah. Hurts most anyone hit with it... ?

You're using an Empowered, you have 20 SDC starting. You'll score another 30 or so from physical skills. Your basic concept is good, but you need more SDC. Fighting street level thugs, you're going to be facing pistols and the odd SMGs. With no soak, one lucky shot and you're screwed. Three or four guys shooting at you and the odds are of having such a hit become staggering. You'll need another option.

[Pepsi Jedi]

Actually guys I kinda sorta answered my own question a few min after I posted it. lol Totally 'book legal' in the Power class I'm aiming for.

For the record he's not a gun fighter at all.

He will have a 'super suit' (armored costume. not robo armor or anything) to help mitigate the 'get shot once and die' thing, but he's not a mega hero. If anything he's street level that gets bigger as he goes.

I think your wrong.

But... Use the AR to soak house rules. AR 12 vs a natural 20 is as spectacularly useless as any roll to auto-dodge that isn't also a natural 20.

I'm not really sure what your point is here? That a natural 20 hurts? yeah. Hurts most anyone hit with it... ?

You're using an Empowered, you have 20 SDC starting. You'll score another 30 or so from physical skills. Your basic concept is good, but you need more SDC. Fighting street level thugs, you're going to be facing pistols and the odd SMGs. With no soak, one lucky shot and you're screwed. Three or four guys shooting at you and the odds are of having such a hit become staggering. You'll need another option.

Yeah. Life's rough when you're not superman or Juggernaut. Auto dodge helps, as does the +14 to inits that the powers alone give him. Then he'll have his own martial art, and the SDC from the suit.

But that's life. In reality a great many heroes would simply die from one lucky shot.

Not trying to covert anything but
One lucky shot to the head would take down...
Captain A
Black Widow
Hawkeye
Scarlet Witch
Quicksilver(Though that'd be difficult, but not impossible. Surprise or something)
Ironman (Out of armor)

That's over half the avengers that would suffer from the same theoretical problem.

Super heroes tend to take a goodly amount of damage, but yeah, in theory a sniper could take out about 3 or 4 out of 5 of them. A sniper 'DID' take down captain America. And he's one of the 'BIGGIES'.

In HU we have the Flexisteel stuff to make the costumes out of and those give huuuge SDC bumps. If you need them.

[The Artist Formerly]

Yeah. Life's rough when you're not superman or Juggernaut. Auto dodge helps, as does the +14 to inits that the powers alone give him. Then he'll have his own martial art, and the SDC from the suit.

But that's life. In reality a great many heroes would simply die from one lucky shot.

Not trying to covert anything but
One lucky shot to the head would take down...
Captain A
Black Widow
Hawkeye
Scarlet Witch
Quicksilver(Though that'd be difficult, but not impossible. Surprise or something)
Ironman (Out of armor)

That's over half the avengers that would suffer from the same theoretical problem.

Super heroes tend to take a goodly amount of damage, but yeah, in theory a sniper could take out about 3 or 4 out of 5 of them. A sniper 'DID' take down captain America. And he's one of the 'BIGGIES'.

In HU we have the Flexisteel stuff to make the costumes out of and those give huuuge SDC bumps. If you need them.

They all have script immunity and only get shot when it drives the story.

You are going to running a PC. That PC has to contend with random dice rolls. S/he needs a build that contends with such. Flexisteel has a AR of 15, your build has a autododge of+14. On a natural 1, that's the same number. You're still screwed.

[Pepsi Jedi]

Yeah. Life's rough when you're not superman or Juggernaut. Auto dodge helps, as does the +14 to inits that the powers alone give him. Then he'll have his own martial art, and the SDC from the suit.

But that's life. In reality a great many heroes would simply die from one lucky shot.

Not trying to covert anything but
One lucky shot to the head would take down...
Captain A
Black Widow
Hawkeye
Scarlet Witch
Quicksilver(Though that'd be difficult, but not impossible. Surprise or something)
Ironman (Out of armor)

That's over half the avengers that would suffer from the same theoretical problem.

Super heroes tend to take a goodly amount of damage, but yeah, in theory a sniper could take out about 3 or 4 out of 5 of them. A sniper 'DID' take down captain America. And he's one of the 'BIGGIES'.

In HU we have the Flexisteel stuff to make the costumes out of and those give huuuge SDC bumps. If you need them.

They all have script immunity and only get shot when it drives the story.

You are going to running a PC. That PC has to contend with random dice rolls. S/he needs a build that contends with such. Flexisteel has a AR of 15, your build has a autododge of+14. On a natural 1, that's the same number. You're still screwed.

I'm not going to break concept to twink out a character for such reasons. Yes, if I used another power category, I could make him 'better, stronger, harder to impossible to kill"

I mean one major. Invulnerability, and street level thugs just can't touch him ever. He could sit in a lawn chair as they shoot him till their guns over heat and just eat a burrito, but that's not the character and frankly boring.

Yes, getting shot is a dangerous propisition. yes Natural 20s happen. *shrugs* They always happen. Not every hero can take sustained fire from a gang with AK47s.

Some of us... you know. Take cover. *Grins* Or attack in the dark where they can't see us. Using our powers to the max.

Not every -game- has gangs of machine gun wielding thugs coming after one single hero either. If so the guy's usually smart enough to manipulate the situation to his advantage.

The concept says char is a street level super hero (he DOES have superpowers after all) but is not superman. he's not bouncing bullets off himself. If he GETS shot it's a big thing, as he's a human dude. His powers are not "Loads and loads of SDC" he has to get out of the way of those bullets. Bullets HURT.

I really -enjoy- playing heroes that have to think vs just yawn and walk through the hail of gunfire unphased and smack around mooks with out effort.

That's just the game _I_ like. My char's DO take cover. They do use tactics. They're more than meat shields or sledge hammers. My guy is the one that would sneak through the shadows for 3 rounds to sneak attack someone from a blind side, silently, vs just step out and blow up the building the guy is in.

Doesn't make the games I like 'better' than others. It's just what I like to play.

Sometimes it's fun to punch and throw tanks.
Sometimes it's more fun to be crafty and come from a blind side. flip up onto a tank and drop a moltolve cocktail into the hatch and then jump off and seek cover again.

[Regularguy]

Invulnerability, and street level thugs just can't touch him ever. He could sit in a lawn chair as they shoot him till their guns over heat and just eat a burrito, but that's not the character and frankly boring.

Yes, getting shot is a dangerous propisition. yes Natural 20s happen. *shrugs* They always happen. Not every hero can take sustained fire from a gang with AK47s.

Not every -game- has gangs of machine gun wielding thugs coming after one single hero either. If so the guy's usually smart enough to manipulate the situation to his advantage.

The concept says char is a street level super hero (he DOES have superpowers after all) but is not superman. he's not bouncing bullets off himself. If he GETS shot it's a big thing, as he's a human dude. His powers are not "Loads and loads of SDC" he has to get out of the way of those bullets.

I agree that an Invulnerable guy, who can take sustained fire from a gang with AK47s, doesn't need to take cover -- but a guy with Tremendous SDC can't take sustained fire from a gang with AK47s, and would take cover. Instead of casually eating a burrito while bouncing unlimited bullets, he'd get increasingly banged up by a limited number of attacks: racking up injuries until he eventually falls down and stops breathing.

So it'd make sense for him to hoard his SDC; he'd try to keep the odds in his favor, manipulating the situation to his advantage -- because thugs with conventional weapons will soon change the bruised-and-bloodied one's skillset from "keep surviving" to "start dying".

You wouldn't let them do that with burrito-eating unconcern; you'd use tactics to make it as hard as possible, always looking to run away if you're in sudden need of medical attention, because guys with guns are serious business when you're not invulnerable.

[Sir_Spirit]

AFAIK an imbued guy can take 8 minors.
Especially if they are themed. If you just dropped motion sense OR radar and then took healing factor or EX PE instead, you'd have a much tougher guy.
(while still being street level, as Healing factor doesnt' make you wolverine,(well, not anymore).
Hmm, if you were an immortal you could get 7 minor powers and an extra power, but you cold just choose a major power then trade it out to 2 minor.
Then you'd have 9.

[Pepsi Jedi]

AFAIK an imbued guy can take 8 minors.
Especially if they are themed. If you just dropped motion sense OR radar and then took healing factor or EX PE instead, you'd have a much tougher guy.
(while still being street level, as Healing factor doesnt' make you wolverine,(well, not anymore).
Hmm, if you were an immortal you could get 7 minor powers and an extra power, but you cold just choose a major power then trade it out to 2 minor.
Then you'd have 9.

lol Thanks, but by concept, the char just -isn't- those things. He'd be considered an Olympic class athlete, but not actually 'super powered' in PE (He does get beat up quite a lot actually) and while he might meditate to enhance his healing speed, it's in no way a healing factor. (He's got medical friends to help patch him up after his routine arsewhuppins)

I know all the tricks to make guys stronger/more SDC/Optimal power selections. I've been playing HU for literal decades.

I'm -not- using them. I've got a concept (not claiming it as my own) and I'm building it via HU rules. As the concept is ... conceived, it works this way. It's who the guy is.

[flatline]

AFAIK an imbued guy can take 8 minors.
Especially if they are themed. If you just dropped motion sense OR radar and then took healing factor or EX PE instead, you'd have a much tougher guy.
(while still being street level, as Healing factor doesnt' make you wolverine,(well, not anymore).
Hmm, if you were an immortal you could get 7 minor powers and an extra power, but you cold just choose a major power then trade it out to 2 minor.
Then you'd have 9.

lol Thanks, but by concept, the char just -isn't- those things. He'd be considered an Olympic class athlete, but not actually 'super powered' in PE (He does get beat up quite a lot actually) and while he might meditate to enhance his healing speed, it's in no way a healing factor. (He's got medical friends to help patch him up after his routine arsewhuppins)

I know all the tricks to make guys stronger/more SDC/Optimal power selections. I've been playing HU for literal decades.

I'm -not- using them. I've got a concept (not claiming it as my own) and I'm building it via HU rules. As the concept is ... conceived, it works this way. It's who the guy is.

My name is Flatline, and I approve this message.

Seriously, I love putting the character concept first. I'm all about optimizing (or at least not making stupidly sub-optimal design decisions for) characters for one-off events, but for campaigns, I'd much rather play a sub-optimal character built around a compelling idea than a heavily optimized character design that has no discernible theme.

--flatline

[The Artist Formerly]

I'm not going to break concept to twink out a character for such reasons. Yes, if I used another power category, I could make him 'better, stronger, harder to impossible to kill"

I mean one major. Invulnerability, and street level thugs just can't touch him ever. He could sit in a lawn chair as they shoot him till their guns over heat and just eat a burrito, but that's not the character and frankly boring.

Yes, getting shot is a dangerous propisition. yes Natural 20s happen. *shrugs* They always happen. Not every hero can take sustained fire from a gang with AK47s.

Some of us... you know. Take cover. *Grins* Or attack in the dark where they can't see us. Using our powers to the max.

Not every -game- has gangs of machine gun wielding thugs coming after one single hero either. If so the guy's usually smart enough to manipulate the situation to his advantage.

The concept says char is a street level super hero (he DOES have superpowers after all) but is not superman. he's not bouncing bullets off himself. If he GETS shot it's a big thing, as he's a human dude. His powers are not "Loads and loads of SDC" he has to get out of the way of those bullets. Bullets HURT.

I really -enjoy- playing heroes that have to think vs just yawn and walk through the hail of gunfire unphased and smack around mooks with out effort.

That's just the game _I_ like. My char's DO take cover. They do use tactics. They're more than meat shields or sledge hammers. My guy is the one that would sneak through the shadows for 3 rounds to sneak attack someone from a blind side, silently, vs just step out and blow up the building the guy is in.

Doesn't make the games I like 'better' than others. It's just what I like to play.

Sometimes it's fun to punch and throw tanks.
Sometimes it's more fun to be crafty and come from a blind side. flip up onto a tank and drop a moltolve cocktail into the hatch and then jump off and seek cover again.

I get the basics of your build. Trouble is, you're going to have, what? Two, three other player characters? What's your plan when the alarm get's raised because someone who isn't stealth focused missed a dice check? What's your plan for a boss fight when you can't sneaky snake take him down? Hide in a dark corner and watch the other PCs have all the fun?

Side long read of your post tells me that you've taken my position to the illogical extreme. I wasn't referencing tanking tanks or even hordes of thugs with assault rifles. My position is one lucky thug with a pistol. Just brute force math is against you. 9mm pistol deals 3d6 dmg, burst fire capable. 3+4+3=10 on average, x2 for a burst. That's 20 points. You have a 13 point difference between his roll to strike and your auto-dodge roll. But you're wearing good armor. So, off all the rounds fired at you, only 30% of them can actually hit you (AR 15 -1 point from his WP: pistol for burst attack, 14 point modifier, and we can just toss the misses on 1-4 from the numbers because it gets lost in the noise of your autododge anyway). That nets out to a 10.5% chance of getting hit. A rough figure tells me you have something like 80% prowl skill at first level but it could be higher, so let's say 98%. Street crims who've been hearing rumors about Bat-devil are a jumpy lot, so they're on guard but not truly competent, let's say -5% to your check for that (normally that's be, what -10 to 15%, but let's set the environment to your favor so city noise and light levels are working against the thugs). They have the home field advantage and while you are familiar with the location, you don't know the nuances they do, -5%. Take downs make noise should provoke another prowl check, so -10% for the action. 22% chance of being noticed. Between those two number stats, odds are strongly in your favor. Except. There are as many badguys as their need to be, because the opposition (read, the GM) has as many baddies as he needs.

Think of it like this. Every time Matt get's shot, he whines for weeks about it, and then either Parker comes in an gives him a pep talk or goes off and fights in his place. You can replace Parker with Cage or Rand if you like.

More importantly, if you're playing Murdock and someone else in your group is playing Cage, why is s/he going to want to sit on their hands while you spend a half hour of game time taking down the Kingpin's guards? Worse then your limited ability to take hits, it's not a team player build. Either the Cage player is annoyed because you're running around stealthing all the fun while s/he waits in the car or they're annoyed with you because their can't be proper boss fights because you splatter like French cheese hurled at walls.

[Pepsi Jedi]

I get the basics of your build. Trouble is, you're going to have, what? Two, three other player characters? What's your plan when the alarm get's raised because someone who isn't stealth focused missed a dice check?

Depends on the situation. Might remain in hiding as the bad guys respond to the one that tripped the alarm and attack from hiding or ambush. Might purposefully set an ambush and pick off those as they come in. Might hide behind cover and optimize ability as a support role, calling out attackers and vectors from which they're coming with the sensory powers. Might use the powers at his disposal to find a way around or to bipass those coming to respond to the alarm. Different situations demand different solutions. Seldom is there only one option. If nothing else, RPer's often forget that running away is also an option if one needs to. Fighting to the death isn't always the best option. One might surrender, to be taken into custody and then escape later. (Or be broken out later)

What's your plan for a boss fight when you can't sneaky snake take him down? Hide in a dark corner and watch the other PCs have all the fun?

Depends on the boss. That's one option yeah. Or I could use my char as written and conceptualized. While the Brick/Tank might head straight in, my char is likely the one ciricling around and swinging in to attack from behind and then get out of the way (The powers if nothing else give him +2 extra attacks per melee, add on boxing, which the char would have as per his history (As opposed for 'Just' the extra attack) and that's a starting attack pool of 7 attacks per round before I look into the details of his martial art. He's got actions to spend on manuvering and placement if needed. he can also throw and attack from range/cover/concealment. If nothing else he could use stronger chars on his team as cover.

My char's do that all the time. In a PBP game one of my robotech pilots used another team member as cover very recently.

Just because one char isn't built to just stand there swatting at the 'boss' like the hulk, soaking up counter attacks doesn't make him nonviable. I'd much much -MUCH- Prefer a character that has to -think- and -plan- than one that's just got enormous pools of SDC so he can stand toe to toe and swat it out.

Now don't get me wrong. Once in a blue moon I'll play a brick/tank too. They're fun and they have their place. That's just not this concept.

Would you ask Batman "Hey what are you going to do if you can't be sneaky snake and take him down?" Batman doesn't have 'any' super powers (Though being honest that could be debated) but as written he doesn't. yet he still does pretty dark good using his brain and planning. Yes he has toys that help as well but batman could be taken down by a guy with an AK47 if they wized up and stopped shooting him in the bat symbol and raised the barrel a foot and put one through his mouth.

Side long read of your post tells me that you've taken my position to the illogical extreme.

Not at all. I'm just pointing out that as conceived, the char doesn't have the powers you're trying to ascribe, nor does he 'need' tons more SDC to be viable.

I wasn't referencing tanking tanks or even hordes of thugs with assault rifles. My position is one lucky thug with a pistol.

One lucky thug with a pistol and Batman's dead. Instead of shooting him in the bullet proof suit, if the lucky thug hits him in the mouth/face with a natural 20 and batman's dead.
Though any list that anyone can make, is going to have Batman in the top 10 superheros of all time. Not the 'strongest' but in the top 10 of the best.

Captain America. Same thing. Most any list of top super heroes you can find will have him in the top 10. One lucky thug gets past the shield and shoots him in the face. He's dead too.

Either of these don't necessarily have to be headshots either. Both are in armored suits. If the lucky thug's pistol beats their suit's AR the shot could be in the chest or whatever.

Just brute force math is against you.

Ehh. Don't care. I don't play RPG's to math at the other people at the table.

I'm ----------------FULLY AWARE-------------------- some people do. Some sit down and crunch the numbers. They work the math. They look at 5 similar powers, compair and contrast, deem one the best and forever will choose that power over the others. They've gone through the books in the decades they've been out and they know that power X gives 1D6 more damage than power Y, they know that power W gives 4D6 more SDC than power Z. They work the skill combinations, the power combinations, etc. Every char they ever make gets boxing for that extra attack at the cost of one secondary skill. Etc. Their bonuses are in the double digets and all is optimized for maxium effect.

I'm fully aware not only some, but MANY people do this. They play this way. They 'math' at one another over the table and declair themselves the King of math!! Er... Role play when due to their numbers, their char wades through encounters etc.

That's just not how I play. I form a concept. Then I go to the books and try and get as close to the concept as I can with what's there. Are my char's --ever-- absolute best in class or optimized for maximum potential? Ugg. Likely not. If so, by accident. Could I do it? Sure. lol I've had the books for decades. HU is one of my most played and almost the longest played RPG I've got. (TMNT/ATB longer, but by months.)

I just don't find doing math equasions and calling it a character 'fun'. That's not how -I- play. So I don't tend to do it. I'd much much MUCH rather play a fun concept but 'weaker' character, and have fun playing him/her, and yes, maybe die, than play a math equasion that doesn't give me such joy.

I play for FUN. It's FUN for me to have a weaker char that has to out think the Boss Bad guy, than to play superman who just flys straight in and punches the boss and goes home.

Does that make my way 'correct' and the other way 'wrong'. No. They're both viable. It just makes it 'right' for -me-. So that's how I play. I won't be pushed to alter concept and what not to make a char stronger for that soul purpose.

9mm pistol deals 3d6 dmg, burst fire capable.

Most pistols are not infact burst fire capable. The government keeps a pretty good eye on that sort of thing.

3+4+3=10 on average, x2 for a burst. That's 20 points. You have a 13 point difference between his roll to strike and your auto-dodge roll. But you're wearing good armor. So, off all the rounds fired at you, only 30% of them can actually hit you (AR 15 -1 point from his WP: pistol for burst attack, 14 point modifier, and we can just toss the misses on 1-4 from the numbers because it gets lost in the noise of your autododge anyway). That nets out to a 10.5% chance of getting hit. A rough figure tells me you have something like 80% prowl skill at first level but it could be higher, so let's say 98%. Street crims who've been hearing rumors about Bat-devil are a jumpy lot, so they're on guard but not truly competent, let's say -5% to your check for that (normally that's be, what -10 to 15%, but let's set the environment to your favor so city noise and light levels are working against the thugs). They have the home field advantage and while you are familiar with the location, you don't know the nuances they do, -5%. Take downs make noise should provoke another prowl check, so -10% for the action. 22% chance of being noticed. Between those two number stats, odds are strongly in your favor. Except. There are as many badguys as their need to be, because the opposition (read, the GM) has as many baddies as he needs.

Indeed, in theory, but it'd be an unwise hero to take them all at once. Seldom do I play with GM's that use the "I have as many guys as I need to kill you" mindset. It's happened, but that seldom remains fun long. Challenge? YES PLEASE. hard challenge? EVEN BETTER! A GM that just multiplies the number of baddies till you can't win? No thanks.

Think of it like this. Every time Matt get's shot, he whines for weeks about it, and then either Parker comes in an gives him a pep talk or goes off and fights in his place. You can replace Parker with Cage or Rand if you like.

Yeah, that sucks.... That kid Parker. Always swinging around flashy like, getting the hot red heads... sadly not all of us could get bitten by super spiders and have more powers than a mega hero under HU rules. He's a punk. Thinks he's soooo funny.

Cage.. ugg. Don't get me started on him. So Emo!

BUT.. Them's the breaks. Not all heroes are equal. Some are 'stronger' or have more 'powers' (With 7 minors this guy has a bunch but being honest it's more like 'Heightened senses (Almost) All, Radar, Lightning reflexes.) but that's just how it is. Not everyone is Superman or Sentry. Hulk or Thor. Captain Marvel or Power Girl.

Some of the heros.... getting shot ... yeah. could lay them up for weeks, or months or boom. Dead hero.

I --love that--. I love it. I can't get enough of it. I love the challenge, and yes, even the factor of blind dumb luck involved. yes,. A simple goon with a pistol could hit a natural 20 and damn near kill one of my heroes at any minute. That's what makes it FUN. (Well part of it.). I love the challenge of the game. The matching of wits. The finding new and inventive ways to use the (Yes, usually weaker) powers I have.

I'm 10 times more likely to play weaker, but more interesting (To -me-) char's than powerhouses. It's the challenge and the fun I play for.

More importantly, if you're playing Murdock and someone else in your group is playing Cage, why is s/he going to want to sit on their hands while you spend a half hour of game time taking down the Kingpin's guards? Worse then your limited ability to take hits, it's not a team player build. Either the Cage player is annoyed because you're running around stealthing all the fun while s/he waits in the car or they're annoyed with you because their can't be proper boss fights because you splatter like French cheese hurled at walls.

Well in that situation, agood GM would give both something to do. Or good players would envoke a plan to include both. Instead of one running around doing X while the other one waits you combine them. Stealth guy might snatch/pead the guards to brick player to finish off. Or Stealth player might find a way to sneak in and get the big baddie to a place for him and brick guy to take down.

Brick guy might enguage the guards, punching them in the face, while Stealth guy sneaks around the main melee to get to the bad guy hiding behind.

There's tons of ways that don't make you go "Either or" It's part of the GM and Player's job to make sure the game is fun for everyone.

And sometimes... well. The Brick is just brick out of luck. Sometimes things take stealth and if Mr Brick can't, yeah he sits on the sidelines. Just like sometims Mr Stealth, hides behind Mr brick when the machine guns come out. Knowing one's limits is a huge part of being a hero.

Lets be honest. The Justice league doesn't NEED all those members. Superman could do 99.9999% of their problems all by himself if he used his powers optimally, but the entire team is out there and they often have their parts to play.

[NMI]

Alright, alright. So the PC that Pepsi wants to build is not one that you, Taffy like/agree with.
Let's just agree to disagree and move on.

[Daniel Stoker]

No, we have to fight to the death to settle this!


Daniel Stoker

[The Artist Formerly]

I think NMI is got the right of this, we are skirting the board rules with this.

[drewkitty ~..~]

Alternatively, a way to combine these powers, would work too. For instance a power that gave a combo deal or something.

Heightened sense of Balance,
Lightning Reflexes,
Heightened sense of Hearing,
Motion Detection,
Heightened sense of Smell,
Radar
Heightened sense of Touch,
Heightened sense of Taste.


Technically Radar covers "motion detection" for the most part, so I could drop that and get down to 7. It'd be nice to have it but I could drop it if I had to.

I'm looking for 'RAW'.

I very simply could create a major "Heightened senses" and cover the Balance, hearing, smell, touch and taste under one major, but again. Trying to keep it RAW if I can.

There is no way to get more then 5 minors in canon.

You might just want to make up a Major Power that covers all the "Heightened sense" powers having them as sub-powers of the major.

[Glistam]

Alternatively, a way to combine these powers, would work too. For instance a power that gave a combo deal or something.

Heightened sense of Balance,
Lightning Reflexes,
Heightened sense of Hearing,
Motion Detection,
Heightened sense of Smell,
Radar
Heightened sense of Touch,
Heightened sense of Taste.


Technically Radar covers "motion detection" for the most part, so I could drop that and get down to 7. It'd be nice to have it but I could drop it if I had to.

I'm looking for 'RAW'.

I very simply could create a major "Heightened senses" and cover the Balance, hearing, smell, touch and taste under one major, but again. Trying to keep it RAW if I can.

There is no way to get more then 5 miniors in canon.

What happened to "Got quoted got spellchecked"?

[Regularguy]

There is no way to get more then 5 miniors in canon.

Say what? It's the 89-00 result for an Experiment character: Three Major Super Abilities or Six Minor powers, player's choice!

[eliakon]

There is no way to get more then 5 miniors in canon.

Say what? It's the 89-00 result for an Experiment character: Three Major Super Abilities or Six Minor powers, player's choice!

Or Imbued Hero 91-98 Six Minor.
Or Immortal 96-00 Seven Minor
Or Mutant with Unstable Mutation, 21-40 at level 15 (6 minor 2 major)
Or....
So yeah, the canon clearly allows for more than five minor powers. Some people may have a house rule capping the number of powers at five, but that's not canon.

[Regularguy]

While the Brick/Tank might head straight in, my char is likely the one ciricling around and swinging in to attack from behind and then get out of the way (The powers if nothing else give him +2 extra attacks per melee, add on boxing, which the char would have as per his history (As opposed for 'Just' the extra attack) and that's a starting attack pool of 7 attacks per round before I look into the details of his martial art. He's got actions to spend on manuvering and placement if needed. he can also throw and attack from range/cover/concealment. If nothing else he could use stronger chars on his team as cover.

My char's do that all the time. In a PBP game one of my robotech pilots used another team member as cover very recently.

Just because one char isn't built to just stand there swatting at the 'boss' like the hulk, soaking up counter attacks doesn't make him nonviable. I'd much much -MUCH- Prefer a character that has to -think- and -plan- than one that's just got enormous pools of SDC so he can stand toe to toe and swat it out.

But why go either/or? Even if you have plenty of SDC, why not -think- and -plan- instead of standing toe-to-toe and swatting it out? Why not use cover and concealment, like you were just saying? Why not circle around to "attack from behind and then get out of the way" instead of soaking up counterattacks?

I get that you'd play him as a think-and-plan, cover-and-concealment, attack-from-behind type if he has a low SDC. Why not play him that way if he has a high SDC? (And bear in mind what they spell out early in the book: regardless of your SDC, your hit points are directly at stake if you dive on a grenade or let someone shoot you in the head at point-blank range. So as long as you're acting like a nimble ninja who favors hit-and-run tactics while taking evasive action against gunfire, you get to benefit from a high SDC -- but as soon as you start acting like you have enough SDC to casually bounce a bullet while eating a burrito, you don't get to benefit from it.)

[drewkitty ~..~]

There is no way to get more then 5 minors in canon.

Say what? It's the 89-00 result for an Experiment character: Three Major Super Abilities or Six Minor powers, player's choice!

Or Imbued Hero 91-98 Six Minor.
Or Immortal 96-00 Seven Minor
Or Mutant with Unstable Mutation, 21-40 at level 15 (6 minor 2 major)
Or....
So yeah, the canon clearly allows for more than five minor powers. Some people may have a house rule capping the number of powers at five, but that's not canon.

*stands corrected by the obscure ways*

[Sir_Spirit]

There is no way to get more then 5 miniors in canon.

What happened to "Got quoted got spellchecked"?

Huh? The only thing misspelled, wasn't quoted?

[Sir_Spirit]

Alternatively, a way to combine these powers, would work too. For instance a power that gave a combo deal or something.

It occurs to me that you could go with an animals abilities wolf to get smell/hearing/nightvision, plus command of dogs/canines.
It's not too over the top for what you are thinking of.

[The Artist Formerly]

One thing I just can't move on from without pointing out, all semi-auto weapons are burst capable. Which is a pistol by definition. That might be one of the sources of our differences if Pepsi was unaware of that rule (page 75 of HU core book). Now I'll leave it alone.

[Pepsi Jedi]

There is no way to get more then 5 minors in canon.

Say what? It's the 89-00 result for an Experiment character: Three Major Super Abilities or Six Minor powers, player's choice!

Or Imbued Hero 91-98 Six Minor.
Or Immortal 96-00 Seven Minor
Or Mutant with Unstable Mutation, 21-40 at level 15 (6 minor 2 major)
Or....
So yeah, the canon clearly allows for more than five minor powers. Some people may have a house rule capping the number of powers at five, but that's not canon.

*stands corrected by the obscure ways*

Empowered
91-00%
"Three Major and Two minor, OR Seven Minor.

As pointed out in my second or third post, I actually found the answer I was looking for in the class I was using. It was jus' a lil tricky as it was after the "Three Major and Two minors" to find.

[Pepsi Jedi]

One thing I just can't move on from without pointing out, all semi-auto weapons are burst capable. Which is a pistol by definition. That might be one of the sources of our differences if Pepsi was unaware of that rule (page 75 of HU core book). Now I'll leave it alone.

It's not the source of our difference. I was pointing out that automatic pistols are hard to get (It's easier to get an automatic rifle) and that standard pistols (IRL) Don't fire 'bursts'. You pull the trigger once and it fires once. Shy of specially trained, gun tricks, firing like that reduces your aim to worse than 0. Your bullets might go in the same cardinal direction as you're pointing but seldom much better.

I.E. IRL no. "Simi-Auto" weapons are not burst capable. Automatic weapons are. (Shy of bump rifles and stuff but that's different too))

Yes I'm aware of the rules in HU. yes I'm aware that you roll one damage X2 for a "Burst" From a pistol. But calling a cat a dog for sake of rules doesn't make it bark.

ALL of that said it's not a point of contention.

My point was "I have an awesome concept(again not claiming I dreamed it up) I'd like to make and play via HU rules, can I do it RAW? Yes? Awesome!"

Your point seems to be "You're not chosing the right powers and your hero is going to be squishy and subject to getting shot and killed, so you're doing it wrong"

Where in my reply is more or less "No. I'm doing it this way on purpose, even if he -is- squishy, it's what I'm trying to do."

[eliakon]

Maybe a lock for this thread?
The OPs question seems to have been pretty thoroughly answered, and there doesn't really seem to be any further on topic discussion possible so......

[Glistam]

There is no way to get more then 5 miniors in canon.

What happened to "Got quoted got spellchecked"?

Huh? The only thing misspelled, wasn't quoted?

Yeah, I thought I was being clever but I apparantly saw something that wasn't there. My apologies.

[NMI]

As the original question for this topic has been answered quite thoroughly, I am locking this thread since people have devolved into "no my idea is better than yours" etc...