Now that's a serious power.

[The Artist Formerly]

There is no WP: Natural Energy Blasts

Shock/Lady Lightning has such a critter in the GMs guide (page 123). But you are correct about the sharp-shooter thing.

Even there she doesn't have WP: Natural Energy Blast. She had to give up a skill for each super power she wished to specialize in.
Thus WP: Energy Expulsion Electricity would be different than WP: Energy Expulsion Fire, which would be different from the next power....

Splitting hairs.

Its not splitting hairs.
This is the difference between saying you can have WP: Sword or W.P. Shotgun .... W.P.: Weapons
Its a HUGE difference.

W.P. Swords covers all swords. From Katanas to long swords to short swords and everything in between.

[flatline]

In our game, we used WP Pistol to cover all handguns (energy pistol, revolver, etc) and WP Rifle to cover all long guns (e. rifle, rifle, shotgun, etc).

But we do track which particular weapons your character is familiar with.

--flatline

[The Artist Formerly]

In our game, we used WP Pistol to cover all handguns (energy pistol, revolver, etc) and WP Rifle to cover all long guns (e. rifle, rifle, shotgun, etc).

But we do track which particular weapons your character is familiar with.

--flatline

Yeah, I always kind of wondered at why revolvers were considered different from pistols. There aren't any mechanical properties I can think of that would alter shooting styles.

[eliakon]

Shock/Lady Lightning has such a critter in the GMs guide (page 123). But you are correct about the sharp-shooter thing.

Even there she doesn't have WP: Natural Energy Blast. She had to give up a skill for each super power she wished to specialize in.
Thus WP: Energy Expulsion Electricity would be different than WP: Energy Expulsion Fire, which would be different from the next power....

Splitting hairs.

Its not splitting hairs.
This is the difference between saying you can have WP: Sword or W.P. Shotgun .... W.P.: Weapons
Its a HUGE difference.

W.P. Swords covers all swords. From Katanas to long swords to short swords and everything in between.

But it doesn't cover maces, or energy rifles, or quarter staves, or missile launchers.....
You still need the specific W.P. for the kind of weapon you want. Same here, you need the W.P. for the super power you want.

[Daniel Stoker]

Yeah, I always kind of wondered at why revolvers were considered different from pistols. There aren't any mechanical properties I can think of that would alter shooting styles.

The only I can think would be the reloading.


Daniel Stoker

[The Artist Formerly]

Yeah, I always kind of wondered at why revolvers were considered different from pistols. There aren't any mechanical properties I can think of that would alter shooting styles.

The only I can think would be the reloading.


Daniel Stoker

Eh.... Sure.

Kind of one of those things, it's not worth house ruling, but no one seems to know why. Using a revolver does give you style points, so maybe we say 'adds to play value'?

Just a thought.

[The Artist Formerly]

W.P. Swords covers all swords. From Katanas to long swords to short swords and everything in between.

But it doesn't cover maces, or energy rifles, or quarter staves, or missile launchers.....
You still need the specific W.P. for the kind of weapon you want. Same here, you need the W.P. for the super power you want.[/quote]

But a WP covers everything in a given range, or, all likes together. A sword isn't a shotgun, but an energy blast of X is fairly similar to an energy blast of Y.

[eliakon]

W.P. Swords covers all swords. From Katanas to long swords to short swords and everything in between.

But it doesn't cover maces, or energy rifles, or quarter staves, or missile launchers.....
You still need the specific W.P. for the kind of weapon you want. Same here, you need the W.P. for the super power you want.

But a WP covers everything in a given range, or, all likes together. A sword isn't a shotgun, but an energy blast of X is fairly similar to an energy blast of Y.[/quote]
Obviously not close enough. The official character with this skill needed to buy three separate skills for each of her three powers.
And since we have examples such as W.P. Automatic Pistol and W.P. Revolver or W.P. Rifle and W.P. Shotgun or W.P. Staff and W.P. Blunt the precedent is already for needing separate W.P.s for things.

[say652]

Revovlers are more accurate designed to give +1 iniative and uh Cowboy.
You can't look oldschool in heavy deadboy armor using a laser pistol.
Its about style.

[Daniel Stoker]

Obviously not close enough. The official character with this skill needed to buy three separate skills for each of her three powers.
And since we have examples such as W.P. Automatic Pistol and W.P. Revolver or W.P. Rifle and W.P. Shotgun or W.P. Staff and W.P. Blunt the precedent is already for needing separate W.P.s for things.

Another super hero series I'm reading has a character who's an absorber and absorbs things like fire and kinetic energy and halfway through the first book learns how to absorb electricity. The problem is fire spreads and goes out one way, but electricity is totally different and it takes him months to learn how to not only release it so it doesn't all go out at once, but how to release it so it goes at one target not at anything nearby that's grounded.


Daniel Stoker

[SittingBull]

Revovlers are more accurate designed to give +1 iniative and uh Cowboy.
You can't look oldschool in heavy deadboy armor using a laser pistol.
Its about style.

I thought revolvers were +1 to hit not +1 initiative.

[eliakon]

Obviously not close enough. The official character with this skill needed to buy three separate skills for each of her three powers.
And since we have examples such as W.P. Automatic Pistol and W.P. Revolver or W.P. Rifle and W.P. Shotgun or W.P. Staff and W.P. Blunt the precedent is already for needing separate W.P.s for things.

Another super hero series I'm reading has a character who's an absorber and absorbs things like fire and kinetic energy and halfway through the first book learns how to absorb electricity. The problem is fire spreads and goes out one way, but electricity is totally different and it takes him months to learn how to not only release it so it doesn't all go out at once, but how to release it so it goes at one target not at anything nearby that's grounded.


Daniel Stoker

That is a very good reason, that makes sense, for there to have each super power need its own skill then. Thank you for sharing.

[flatline]

Revovlers are more accurate designed to give +1 iniative and uh Cowboy.

I've always wondered by the rules give an extra +1 for revolvers. It make no sense. Do they ever explain why that is?

--flatline

[Daniel Stoker]

That is a very good reason, that makes sense, for there to have each super power need its own skill then. Thank you for sharing.

My pleasure and if you get the chance I totally recommend the Drew Hayes Super Powereds series.


Daniel Stoker

[NMI]

Revovlers are more accurate designed to give +1 iniative and uh Cowboy.
You can't look oldschool in heavy deadboy armor using a laser pistol.
Its about style.

I thought revolvers were +1 to hit not +1 initiative.

Sittingbull - you are correct. They get an additional +1 strike [+4 at 1st level]. They do NOT get an initiative bonus.

[NMI]

Revovlers are more accurate designed to give +1 iniative and uh Cowboy.
You can't look oldschool in heavy deadboy armor using a laser pistol.
Its about style.

a: There is no initiative bonus in HEROES UNLIMITED for revolvers. They get an additional +1 strike on aimed shorts. ie: They get a total of +4 strike/aimed at 1st level whereas an automatic pistol has a +3.

b: This is not Rifts. There is no "Heavy Deadboy armor

[Daniel Stoker]

b: This is not Rifts. There is no "Heavy Deadboy armor

I'm pretty sure he knows that, but I think his point was about looks and style NMI, the Heavy Deadboy armor was an example of how you can't look 'oldschool' while you can with a revolver.


Daniel Stoker

[The Artist Formerly]

Obviously not close enough. The official character with this skill needed to buy three separate skills for each of her three powers.
And since we have examples such as W.P. Automatic Pistol and W.P. Revolver or W.P. Rifle and W.P. Shotgun or W.P. Staff and W.P. Blunt the precedent is already for needing separate W.P.s for things.

Another super hero series I'm reading has a character who's an absorber and absorbs things like fire and kinetic energy and halfway through the first book learns how to absorb electricity. The problem is fire spreads and goes out one way, but electricity is totally different and it takes him months to learn how to not only release it so it doesn't all go out at once, but how to release it so it goes at one target not at anything nearby that's grounded.


Daniel Stoker

Okay.

In effect though, rather then characterization for novelization, what's the difference? I point my hand at someone and a jet of flame goes shooting at them. I point my hand at someone and a arc of electricity leaps to them. I point my hand at someone and a blast of untyped energy hits them. I would argue that like with WP pistol, while subtly different, like a Glock shooting FMJs or Berretta shooting hollow points, they are functionally the same.

Perhaps the character in the book is describing his basic learning curve on his way to the next level. That's how I'd read that.

[Daniel Stoker]

That was a rationalization for why they're not functionally the same even if the rules don't actually address that. If you don't care and want to say it doesn't matter then that's not a problem, I was just giving an example for someone to use if they did.

As to the character, no, he’s pretty clear on electricity working different then fire and not being able to use the same skills to get it to ‘go’.


Daniel Stoker

[eliakon]

Obviously not close enough. The official character with this skill needed to buy three separate skills for each of her three powers.
And since we have examples such as W.P. Automatic Pistol and W.P. Revolver or W.P. Rifle and W.P. Shotgun or W.P. Staff and W.P. Blunt the precedent is already for needing separate W.P.s for things.

Another super hero series I'm reading has a character who's an absorber and absorbs things like fire and kinetic energy and halfway through the first book learns how to absorb electricity. The problem is fire spreads and goes out one way, but electricity is totally different and it takes him months to learn how to not only release it so it doesn't all go out at once, but how to release it so it goes at one target not at anything nearby that's grounded.


Daniel Stoker

Okay.

In effect though, rather then characterization for novelization, what's the difference? I point my hand at someone and a jet of flame goes shooting at them. I point my hand at someone and a arc of electricity leaps to them. I point my hand at someone and a blast of untyped energy hits them. I would argue that like with WP pistol, while subtly different, like a Glock shooting FMJs or Berretta shooting hollow points, they are functionally the same.

Perhaps the character in the book is describing his basic learning curve on his way to the next level. That's how I'd read that.

I think Daniel was just trying to share an example of a rationalization for the canon rule of 'spent one skill for each power' as to why they need to buy strike by power and instead not the more efficient W.P. Energy Blast.

[SittingBull]

Obviously not close enough. The official character with this skill needed to buy three separate skills for each of her three powers.
And since we have examples such as W.P. Automatic Pistol and W.P. Revolver or W.P. Rifle and W.P. Shotgun or W.P. Staff and W.P. Blunt the precedent is already for needing separate W.P.s for things.

Another super hero series I'm reading has a character who's an absorber and absorbs things like fire and kinetic energy and halfway through the first book learns how to absorb electricity. The problem is fire spreads and goes out one way, but electricity is totally different and it takes him months to learn how to not only release it so it doesn't all go out at once, but how to release it so it goes at one target not at anything nearby that's grounded.


Daniel Stoker

Okay.

In effect though, rather then characterization for novelization, what's the difference? I point my hand at someone and a jet of flame goes shooting at them. I point my hand at someone and a arc of electricity leaps to them. I point my hand at someone and a blast of untyped energy hits them. I would argue that like with WP pistol, while subtly different, like a Glock shooting FMJs or Berretta shooting hollow points, they are functionally the same.

Perhaps the character in the book is describing his basic learning curve on his way to the next level. That's how I'd read that.

I, as a GM, try to encourage that character discovering new powers and how to use them in game. Makes them feel a much better earning than just "oh, by the way, you learned how to do this, you have the power".

[SittingBull]

That was a rationalization for why they're not functionally the same even if the rules don't actually address that. If you don't care and want to say it doesn't matter then that's not a problem, I was just giving an example for someone to use if they did.

As to the character, no, he’s pretty clear on electricity working different then fire and not being able to use the same skills to get it to ‘go’.


Daniel Stoker

Those various energy form wps could allow some trick shots in certain situations. Due to the different characteristics of the different energies.

[The Artist Formerly]

That was a rationalization for why they're not functionally the same even if the rules don't actually address that. If you don't care and want to say it doesn't matter then that's not a problem, I was just giving an example for someone to use if they did.

As to the character, no, he’s pretty clear on electricity working different then fire and not being able to use the same skills to get it to ‘go’.


Daniel Stoker

Eh. I can't say I'm married to the idea one way or the other.

When authors of novels try and talk out game mechanics as character bits, they tend to come out a little weird. Cough*Salvatore*cough.

At the mechanical level, I don't see a sufficient difference to warrant a different skill. As it relates to Palladium's rule system anyway. All pistols use the same skill, all swords use the same skill. A fire blast and a electricity blast are different critters, no doubt, but under this rule set... eh.

[The Artist Formerly]

Obviously not close enough. The official character with this skill needed to buy three separate skills for each of her three powers.
And since we have examples such as W.P. Automatic Pistol and W.P. Revolver or W.P. Rifle and W.P. Shotgun or W.P. Staff and W.P. Blunt the precedent is already for needing separate W.P.s for things.

Another super hero series I'm reading has a character who's an absorber and absorbs things like fire and kinetic energy and halfway through the first book learns how to absorb electricity. The problem is fire spreads and goes out one way, but electricity is totally different and it takes him months to learn how to not only release it so it doesn't all go out at once, but how to release it so it goes at one target not at anything nearby that's grounded.


Daniel Stoker

Okay.

In effect though, rather then characterization for novelization, what's the difference? I point my hand at someone and a jet of flame goes shooting at them. I point my hand at someone and a arc of electricity leaps to them. I point my hand at someone and a blast of untyped energy hits them. I would argue that like with WP pistol, while subtly different, like a Glock shooting FMJs or Berretta shooting hollow points, they are functionally the same.

Perhaps the character in the book is describing his basic learning curve on his way to the next level. That's how I'd read that.

I, as a GM, try to encourage that character discovering new powers and how to use them in game. Makes them feel a much better earning than just "oh, by the way, you learned how to do this, you have the power".

Gaming logic. By sneaking and fighting my through a Dracula castle, I have become better at sewing. Why does that work? Because the game system uses leveling rather then XP buys. You're not wrong by any stretch of the imagination. The assumption the system takes is that a given character is doing more then the just flexing in the mirror when he isn't actively saving the day.

[flatline]

We instituted a points based system to replace leveling. It was pretty crude, but we liked it better than RAW.

Another GM used a system like the old call of cthulu where you had a chance to improve skills by using them. Totally threw levels out the window.

[Daniel Stoker]

Eh. I can't say I'm married to the idea one way or the other.

When authors of novels try and talk out game mechanics as character bits, they tend to come out a little weird. Cough*Salvatore*cough.

Well you can’t blame the author as he’s writing a book, I’m the one who offered his description of how that character’s power worked as something one could if they wanted to use to explain why you might need a different WP.

At the mechanical level, I don't see a sufficient difference to warrant a different skill. As it relates to Palladium's rule system anyway. All pistols use the same skill, all swords use the same skill. A fire blast and a electricity blast are different critters, no doubt, but under this rule set... eh.

Which is fine, but if you did, the bit above is a good way to explain it away.


Daniel Stoker

[SittingBull]

Here, here!