Book of Heroes/Heroes of the Megaverse

[Pepsi Jedi]

Prepping for my game this Sunday, we're taking an 'off week' or two from our normal rifts game. We were thinking we'd run a HU game. i've had the Heroes of the Megaverse on the shelf since it came out and haven't really used it.

Why you may ask? Well, two reasons really.

1) And perhaps the biggest, is the severe limitation of the "ONLY GOOD ALIGNMENTS NEED EVEN READ PAST THE FIRST PAGE" restriction. I get it. Heroes are supposed to be good guys. But our games tend to be a touch more realistic, in that "Goody two shoes, superman, I'll never tell a lie, never cheat, never do anything but good good good" people are extremely few and far between, and seldom seen in real life. We tend to play more 'Han Solo' types. Unprincipled heroes or even Aberrant heroes. Which, if you read the Heroes of the Megaverse, need to just FOAD as far as the entire book is concerned. Do not pass go. Do not collect 200credits. Not happenin'.

The other reason...

2) The 101 BRAND NEW POWERS!! YEAAAAAAAAAAAAH NEW POWERS! LOOK! A BOOK WITH 101 NEW POWERS!!!......... Aren't. Healing factor? Not new. Energy expulsion lasers, not new, energy explusion heat, not new. Flight Angel wings, demon wings, not new. Both are contained under "Flight winged" In the first HU book. Flight wingless, not new, fly space, not new, force field, not new, growth, not new. Heart of ____ not new. (( Just APS ___ +Matter expulsion____ more or less)), Impervious to ____ not new. Magic's, not new. The "Mind ____ is largely covered by other power catagories in HU. Be it Hardware, dectective ect.

Of the 101 "NEW POWERS" Maybe 20... 30 of them are new. The rest are just the old powers with a stat changed here or there. Maybe -1D6 damage or +20mph. Maybe a combo of APS steel and Matter expulsion Steel.. or the same with stone.

Now..... I have plenty of powers with my HU book and both PU books. But the book was marketed as having 100 NEW POWERS, and with 70 to 80 of them just rehashes of the same things, that angered me into not liking the book.
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Soooo...... My thought was. "I can use the concept if not the guts."

I have two options as I see it.

1) The book of heroes isn't quite THAT Picky on alignment. Allowing for good or the occasional selfish alignment. That'll open up the possibilities for most 'heroes' (( With the exception of aberrant 'heroes'.)) And with some selfish alighments POSSIBLE, I'm sure I can get one or two of my group to even go Boyscout.

or.

2) Have there be 3 books. The Book of Heroes (( Good only)) The book of Rogues (Solos!!) Selfish Alignments, and the Book of Villains. (Evil alignment)

have the Heroes and Villain books be duking it out with Rogues playing the middle and getting where they can. This would open it up for natural antagonists.

Either way, I'll be replacing the powers with HU+PU1+PU2 to open it up from the (( Mostly lame)) Rehashes in the Heroes of the Megaverse book.


So, many of you guys have played for years. Which do you think would make for a better game? Keep the single book and just relax the alignment restrictions abit to let more than 5 or 6 people on earth be affected, or have the three books and a little book war goin' on?

[Nightmask]

Superman was never that goody goody, if you look back at the Silver Age material he lied all the time (generally lies of omission and misdirection, engaged in 'what value is a non-human' mind control, and frequently erased people's memories without their consent to protect his secret ID), and that sounds like a more cynical rather than realistic perspective to insist generally decent, heroic behavior is so rare.

[Pepsi Jedi]

Superman was never that goody goody, if you look back at the Silver Age material he lied all the time (generally lies of omission and misdirection, engaged in 'what value is a non-human' mind control, and frequently erased people's memories without their consent to protect his secret ID), and that sounds like a more cynical rather than realistic perspective to insist generally decent, heroic behavior is so rare.

Not heroic behavior. Our heroes conduct heroic behavior, but if you look at how restrictive tthe alignment rules are in Palladium, 99% of the heroes in comics couldn't be of "Good" Alignment.

[jaymz]

PJ, I'd say go with the 3 book option. It makes sense there would be such a trilogy of sorts.

[Sir_Spirit]

Meh, I'd be strict but look at what Superman actualy does.
Does he lie?
Sure, to protect his identity. And I'm sure he tell white lies that considered good manners.
So, contect matters.
Also, soldiers and Police tend to kill things, but we don't consider them evil...
You might take a few of the truely knew powers+the powers that are combo's of others. and just say that they are availiable to your definition of "good" guys....

[Pepsi Jedi]

I pinged the group today, bounced both ideas off them. They wern't feelin' it. Instead we're gonna use the Immortal rules from PU2 and make up some Dimigods/fallengod/forgotten god sorts that are gonna get scraped together. One of my players called it a 'Gutter godling game'.

[PapaMambo]

I've been trying to work Heroes of the Megaverse into a game I am running as well. Keeping in mind that this will be a long running campaign which has barely started.

Essentially, the gist of it is this - my players (all of whom are new to gaming in general) are starting off with some minor adventures that will lead them into a grander more encompassing campaign that culminates in the Minion War. The 'Book of Heroes" is a magical item that will get handed to them by an NPC who is trying to hide it from the forces of evil (Demons and Deevils) who each want it for their nefarious purposes, and then wish to destroy it so it doesn't interfere with their plans of domination.

Not all of the PC's are 'goody two-shows', but this will be a catalyst for them to undergo some major changes in their lives before the epic invasion starts.

Personally, I like the book (even though as you said, a lot of it is just rehashed material), and I think it fits well into the whole Minion War mythos. The plan is for the Players to receive the book, research it, lose it in the course of battle, and have to try and regain it again and keep it safe from evil.

Yeah, I know - a lot of cliches in there, but what are comic book games if not cliche?

[Juce734]

I think you could run with the 3 books. That sounds awesome actually.

Then in order to end the Minion War you must hold all 3 books. Plus if you hold all 3 books it unleashes a whole new level of power.

That could be the true reason the baddies want all 3 books.

[Witchcraft]

Including the three books sounds like it'll be a blast! I can't wait to hear how your game-diversion turns out.

[Matt]

What is "Heroes of the Megaverse"? A book for HU? Never heard of it!

[Glistam]

It's a sourcebook for Heroes Unlimited and Rifts. It's best used as a companion book to the Minion War series of books.

[Matt]

Thanks for the info. I shall pass on it as I don't know a thing about Minion Wars and I play on my own independent setting anyway. Sounds cool, though.

[Daniel Stoker]

It's the one book I regret the most for buying and actually just gave my copy to a friend because I had no use for it.


Daniel Stoker

[Nekira Sudacne]

It's the one book I regret the most for buying and actually just gave my copy to a friend because I had no use for it.


Daniel Stoker

Really? I'm surprised. The rules for heroic hellion I found made a great table for making unique demon types as enemies rather than just throwing standard brodkil or bal-rogs at people, I use it for all games. That alone was worth the price of admission.

[Glistam]

It's the one book I regret the most for buying and actually just gave my copy to a friend because I had no use for it.


Daniel Stoker

Really? I'm surprised. The rules for heroic hellion I found made a great table for making unique demon types as enemies rather than just throwing standard brodkil or bal-rogs at people, I use it for all games. That alone was worth the price of admission.

I think he meant Heroes of the Megaverse, not Armageddon Unlimited.

[The Artist Formerly]

Superman was never that goody goody, if you look back at the Silver Age material he lied all the time (generally lies of omission and misdirection, engaged in 'what value is a non-human' mind control, and frequently erased people's memories without their consent to protect his secret ID), and that sounds like a more cynical rather than realistic perspective to insist generally decent, heroic behavior is so rare.

Not heroic behavior. Our heroes conduct heroic behavior, but if you look at how restrictive tthe alignment rules are in Palladium, 99% of the heroes in comics couldn't be of "Good" Alignment.

I'd argue that you're interpreting Palladium's alignment system very narrowly. Remember, when principalled was written for paladins, you could uphold the code and still engage in some in some wholesome genocide.

But more importantly, when push comes to shove, and your character is faced with a hard choice, what do you do? Aberrant is not a hero. Aberrant is silver age Doctor Doom. The aberrant character doesn't strap on tights and save the city. The aberrant character puts on a power suit and kills everyone who would fail to understand that he should rule and they should be grateful that he's owns a velvet glove to go along with that iron fist and that the trains run on time.

[Pepsi Jedi]

Superman was never that goody goody, if you look back at the Silver Age material he lied all the time (generally lies of omission and misdirection, engaged in 'what value is a non-human' mind control, and frequently erased people's memories without their consent to protect his secret ID), and that sounds like a more cynical rather than realistic perspective to insist generally decent, heroic behavior is so rare.

Not heroic behavior. Our heroes conduct heroic behavior, but if you look at how restrictive tthe alignment rules are in Palladium, 99% of the heroes in comics couldn't be of "Good" Alignment.

I'd argue that you're interpreting Palladium's alignment system very narrowly. Remember, when principalled was written for paladins, you could uphold the code and still engage in some in some wholesome genocide.

But more importantly, when push comes to shove, and your character is faced with a hard choice, what do you do? Aberrant is not a hero. Aberrant is silver age Doctor Doom. The aberrant character doesn't strap on tights and save the city. The aberrant character puts on a power suit and kills everyone who would fail to understand that he should rule and they should be grateful that he's owns a velvet glove to go along with that iron fist and that the trains run on time.

It's not me interpreting the alignment system narrowly. The alignment system for Palladium 'is' very narrow. Very many "Would always do ____" and "Would never do _____" and what not, that if you go by RAW, would put most heroes from comics, Selfish at the very best. It's a bit idealistic, but even it's own examples don't hold true when you look at them.

It's not that big deal for me or my games. Can't remember the last time a GM Really harped on any sort of alignment. 30 years ago it was 'industry norm' but you don't see it all that often these days and when you do it's not as restrictive. Palladium is just still using the system from 1980.

[Daniel Stoker]

It's the one book I regret the most for buying and actually just gave my copy to a friend because I had no use for it.

Really? I'm surprised. The rules for heroic hellion I found made a great table for making unique demon types as enemies rather than just throwing standard brodkil or bal-rogs at people, I use it for all games. That alone was worth the price of admission.

I think he meant Heroes of the Megaverse, not Armageddon Unlimited.

You'd be right too.


Daniel Stoker

[The Artist Formerly]

Superman was never that goody goody, if you look back at the Silver Age material he lied all the time (generally lies of omission and misdirection, engaged in 'what value is a non-human' mind control, and frequently erased people's memories without their consent to protect his secret ID), and that sounds like a more cynical rather than realistic perspective to insist generally decent, heroic behavior is so rare.

Not heroic behavior. Our heroes conduct heroic behavior, but if you look at how restrictive tthe alignment rules are in Palladium, 99% of the heroes in comics couldn't be of "Good" Alignment.

I'd argue that you're interpreting Palladium's alignment system very narrowly. Remember, when principalled was written for paladins, you could uphold the code and still engage in some in some wholesome genocide.

But more importantly, when push comes to shove, and your character is faced with a hard choice, what do you do? Aberrant is not a hero. Aberrant is silver age Doctor Doom. The aberrant character doesn't strap on tights and save the city. The aberrant character puts on a power suit and kills everyone who would fail to understand that he should rule and they should be grateful that he's owns a velvet glove to go along with that iron fist and that the trains run on time.

It's not me interpreting the alignment system narrowly. The alignment system for Palladium 'is' very narrow. Very many "Would always do ____" and "Would never do _____" and what not, that if you go by RAW, would put most heroes from comics, Selfish at the very best. It's a bit idealistic, but even it's own examples don't hold true when you look at them.

It's not that big deal for me or my games. Can't remember the last time a GM Really harped on any sort of alignment. 30 years ago it was 'industry norm' but you don't see it all that often these days and when you do it's not as restrictive. Palladium is just still using the system from 1980.

Yes on the 1980s bit, I disagree with you on the other bits. Happy to argue this till the heat death of the universe, but would end up thread jacking your thread, as this discussion can be ... animated.

[Nekira Sudacne]

It's the one book I regret the most for buying and actually just gave my copy to a friend because I had no use for it.

Really? I'm surprised. The rules for heroic hellion I found made a great table for making unique demon types as enemies rather than just throwing standard brodkil or bal-rogs at people, I use it for all games. That alone was worth the price of admission.

I think he meant Heroes of the Megaverse, not Armageddon Unlimited.

You'd be right too.


Daniel Stoker

Doh! I don't think of HotM as a HU book, so the forum header confused me!

[jaymz]

I'm still in favour of the trilogy of books idea....

[Daniel Stoker]

Doh! I don't think of HotM as a HU book, so the forum header confused me!

I don't think it's much of a HU book myself.


Daniel Stoker