Are Vampires dead enough to Coexist with their Doppelgangers

For the discussion of Nightbane™ and its supplements.

Moderators: Immortals, Supreme Beings, Old Ones

User avatar
Incriptus
Hero
Posts: 1255
Joined: Mon Dec 23, 2002 2:01 am
Comment: Hey, relaaaax. Pretend it's a game. Maybe it'll even be fun
Shoot the tubes, Dogmeat!
Location: Washington State

Are Vampires dead enough to Coexist with their Doppelgangers

Unread post by Incriptus »

Nothing throws Vampire Hunters off the trail like having your doppelganger pretend to be you during the day.
Rallan
Champion
Posts: 2361
Joined: Sun Oct 01, 2000 1:01 am

Re: Are Vampires dead enough to Coexist with their Doppelgan

Unread post by Rallan »

I'd imagine that if your doppelganger hasn't already been woken up then he'll stop existing when you get turned, because only awakened doppelgangers go on living after their human dies.
Image
Nightmartree
Adventurer
Posts: 497
Joined: Wed Aug 16, 2017 12:49 am
Comment: I don't know what i'm doing, that's for realities GM to figure out
Location: Garden of Dreams

Re: Are Vampires dead enough to Coexist with their Doppelgan

Unread post by Nightmartree »

Rallan wrote:I'd imagine that if your doppelganger hasn't already been woken up then he'll stop existing when you get turned, because only awakened doppelgangers go on living after their human dies.


so if an awakened doppleganger feeds his self to a vampire you could end up with 2 of the "same" person. One a vamp and one a doppleganger possibly both evil and working together or against each other? depending on if the vamp was forced fed to the vamps or agreed to achieve "immortality" or some other trick.
User avatar
Axelmania
Knight
Posts: 5523
Joined: Sun Dec 27, 2015 1:13 pm

Re: Are Vampires dead enough to Coexist with their Doppelgan

Unread post by Axelmania »

Rallan wrote:I'd imagine that if your doppelganger hasn't already been woken up then he'll stop existing when you get turned, because only awakened doppelgangers go on living after their human dies.

Is that something from one of the newer supplements? Pg 158 of main book says:
Sometimes, the death of their Earth double will create a form of psychic backlash that will snap the Doppleganger out of his daze.

But not sure where to find anything about them dying if not awoke.
User avatar
drewkitty ~..~
Monk
Posts: 17737
Joined: Sat Sep 30, 2000 1:01 am
Location: Eastvale, calif
Contact:

Re: Are Vampires dead enough to Coexist with their Doppelgan

Unread post by drewkitty ~..~ »

topic title q: Vampires are no longer the people they were. So Yes. Wyampires......that is a different q.

Would the Dopp do the OP.....doubt it.
May you be blessed with the ability to change course when you are off the mark.
Each question should be give the canon answer 1st, then you can proclaim your house rules.
Reading and writing (literacy) is how people on BBS interact.
User avatar
Axelmania
Knight
Posts: 5523
Joined: Sun Dec 27, 2015 1:13 pm

Re: Are Vampires dead enough to Coexist with their Doppelgan

Unread post by Axelmania »

This does pose an interesting idea of Doppleganger/Wampyr alliances where Dopplegangers assist Masters in locating and turning their originals so that they can stay on Earth.

Slow kill takes 3 days and dopplegangers can only coexist for 2 so that would be a problem, so they would probably kidnap their original back to the nightlands where they would be turned.

Another interesting vampire Q would be : what about that TTGD concept of "Nemesis R.C.C. - a dangerous reflection from the Nightlands." would a human being vamped kill his Nightlands Nemesis?
Shark_Force
Palladin
Posts: 7128
Joined: Fri Jun 26, 2009 4:11 pm

Re: Are Vampires dead enough to Coexist with their Doppelgan

Unread post by Shark_Force »

Axelmania wrote:This does pose an interesting idea of Doppleganger/Wampyr alliances where Dopplegangers assist Masters in locating and turning their originals so that they can stay on Earth.

Slow kill takes 3 days and dopplegangers can only coexist for 2 so that would be a problem, so they would probably kidnap their original back to the nightlands where they would be turned.

Another interesting vampire Q would be : what about that TTGD concept of "Nemesis R.C.C. - a dangerous reflection from the Nightlands." would a human being vamped kill his Nightlands Nemesis?


i would expect them to similarly undergo some form of metamorphosis. it isn't just dying that is mirrored, it is everything about them, after all.
User avatar
eliakon
Palladin
Posts: 9093
Joined: Sat Jul 14, 2007 9:40 pm
Comment: Palladium Books Canon is set solely by Kevin Siembieda, either in person, or by his approval of published material.
Contact:

Re: Are Vampires dead enough to Coexist with their Doppelgan

Unread post by eliakon »

Shark_Force wrote:
Axelmania wrote:This does pose an interesting idea of Doppleganger/Wampyr alliances where Dopplegangers assist Masters in locating and turning their originals so that they can stay on Earth.

Slow kill takes 3 days and dopplegangers can only coexist for 2 so that would be a problem, so they would probably kidnap their original back to the nightlands where they would be turned.

Another interesting vampire Q would be : what about that TTGD concept of "Nemesis R.C.C. - a dangerous reflection from the Nightlands." would a human being vamped kill his Nightlands Nemesis?


i would expect them to similarly undergo some form of metamorphosis. it isn't just dying that is mirrored, it is everything about them, after all.

The entire "Nemesis" thing is pretty absurd to start with (there is an exact, but opposite duplicate in the Nightlands. And it will always do everything you do and there is nothing that can be done about it at all. Oh and if you or anyone else kills it the person dies. It makes Call of Cthulhu look optimistic)
But assuming the GM is running a game that is both bleakly dark enough and silly enough to have the Nemesis in it?
Just assume that it will turn into some sort of undead too, or otherwise die and be reborn as...something.
Probably something that is either 1) even more evil than the now evil vampire or 2) will now be the evil vampire's nemesis so will be some sort of "good" undead critter or some such.
The rules are not a bludgeon with which to hammer a character into a game. They are a guide to how a group of friends can get together to weave a collective story that entertains everyone involved. We forget that at our peril.

Edmund Burke wrote:The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."
dreicunan
Hero
Posts: 1344
Joined: Wed Jun 25, 2014 12:49 am

Re: Are Vampires dead enough to Coexist with their Doppelgan

Unread post by dreicunan »

eliakon wrote:
Shark_Force wrote:
Axelmania wrote:This does pose an interesting idea of Doppleganger/Wampyr alliances where Dopplegangers assist Masters in locating and turning their originals so that they can stay on Earth.

Slow kill takes 3 days and dopplegangers can only coexist for 2 so that would be a problem, so they would probably kidnap their original back to the nightlands where they would be turned.

Another interesting vampire Q would be : what about that TTGD concept of "Nemesis R.C.C. - a dangerous reflection from the Nightlands." would a human being vamped kill his Nightlands Nemesis?


i would expect them to similarly undergo some form of metamorphosis. it isn't just dying that is mirrored, it is everything about them, after all.

The entire "Nemesis" thing is pretty absurd to start with (there is an exact, but opposite duplicate in the Nightlands. And it will always do everything you do and there is nothing that can be done about it at all. Oh and if you or anyone else kills it the person dies. It makes Call of Cthulhu look optimistic)
But assuming the GM is running a game that is both bleakly dark enough and silly enough to have the Nemesis in it?
Just assume that it will turn into some sort of undead too, or otherwise die and be reborn as...something.
Probably something that is either 1) even more evil than the now evil vampire or 2) will now be the evil vampire's nemesis so will be some sort of "good" undead critter or some such.

I'd suggest going with option #2 and turning the Nemesis into a Cold-Blooded.
Axelmania wrote:You of course, being the ultimate authority on what is an error and what is not.
Declared the ultimate authority on what is an error and what is not by Axelmania on 5.11.19.
User avatar
BookWyrm
Champion
Posts: 2347
Joined: Sun Aug 19, 2001 1:01 am
Comment: Mondos non cogitarus, Consilium!
Location: my well-camouflaged lair on LI

Re: Are Vampires dead enough to Coexist with their Doppelgan

Unread post by BookWyrm »

I always felt that, if the person does become a full-on Vampire (Lord, Master or Secondary), their Doppleganger runs the same chance of either dying (going through the motions of 'conversion', but dying permanently) or going independent. If the Doppleganger dies, there's a chance they become any one of the Flawed (Wild, Shade or Ghoul) from Rifter #49. The trauma of dying 'twice' causes this. The Doppleganger cringes, screams in agony, then dissolves.

If the Doppleganger somehow survives, it's weakened greatly (-75% to *everything*) and simply collapses right where it is. Roving Hounds in the Nightlands can spot one of these 'lumps' easily & like to play/torture them until they discorporate. Random chance of the person becoming one of the Near Vampires: Whampyr, Damned, Scourge or Blood Wraith.
"Yes, I know I'm going to hell; I'm bringing marshmallows."
BookWyrm aka The Horn'd One
Str-8 male Dom/Top;
Honourable but not gullible;
a Hero of the Megaverse. :D
User avatar
Axelmania
Knight
Posts: 5523
Joined: Sun Dec 27, 2015 1:13 pm

Re: Are Vampires dead enough to Coexist with their Doppelgan

Unread post by Axelmania »

Reminder that not every Doppleganger is a Nemesis. I'm not even sure it specifies that when a Doppleganger is your Nemesis it has to be YOUR doppleganger. Is Rifter 49 canon? A doppleganger's original dying might awaken them, I would say becoming a vampire qualifies.

No reaosn I can see that becoming an undead would cause that to happen to your doppleganger. If you get your arm cut off your doppleganger doesn't automatically lose an arm.
User avatar
BookWyrm
Champion
Posts: 2347
Joined: Sun Aug 19, 2001 1:01 am
Comment: Mondos non cogitarus, Consilium!
Location: my well-camouflaged lair on LI

Re: Are Vampires dead enough to Coexist with their Doppelgan

Unread post by BookWyrm »

True, Axel, but I factored in the mystical part of the conversion as well. The Doppleganger has just as much of a chance of being 'cut loose' from their counterpart as any other death; I figured the human's transformation from mortal to vampire carries a little something extra for the Doppleganger.
"Yes, I know I'm going to hell; I'm bringing marshmallows."
BookWyrm aka The Horn'd One
Str-8 male Dom/Top;
Honourable but not gullible;
a Hero of the Megaverse. :D
User avatar
Axelmania
Knight
Posts: 5523
Joined: Sun Dec 27, 2015 1:13 pm

Re: Are Vampires dead enough to Coexist with their Doppelgan

Unread post by Axelmania »

What would happen to a mortal's doppleganger if he became a Cosmo-Knight? A Death Demon?
User avatar
BookWyrm
Champion
Posts: 2347
Joined: Sun Aug 19, 2001 1:01 am
Comment: Mondos non cogitarus, Consilium!
Location: my well-camouflaged lair on LI

Re: Are Vampires dead enough to Coexist with their Doppelgan

Unread post by BookWyrm »

I would say, same chance; goes through the same mortal's life-motions as usual (does NOT become a Cosmo-Doppleganger), goes independent or simply dies/discorporates.
"Yes, I know I'm going to hell; I'm bringing marshmallows."
BookWyrm aka The Horn'd One
Str-8 male Dom/Top;
Honourable but not gullible;
a Hero of the Megaverse. :D
Post Reply

Return to “Nightbane®”