147,197,952,000 Cubic Feet

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147,197,952,000 Cubic Feet

Unread post by Incriptus »

Currently on a bit of an Astral Domain kick.

Looking at the "B. Size" Categories for the domains

1. Tiny: 100 cubic feet
2. Small: 300 cubic feet
3. Average: 1000 feet (assumed to be a typo of 1000 cubic feet)
4. Big: 1 cubic mile
5. Large: 10 cubic miles
6. Huge: 100 cubic miles

... 1 cubic mile is 147,197,952,000 Cubic Feet
We go from the size of a bed room to something the size of ... a hundred and fifty million bedrooms.

Tiny to Small, 3 times bigger
Small to Average 3 1/3 times bigger
Average to Big 147,197,952 times bigger
Big to Large 10 times bigger
Large to Huge 10 times bigger

The Astral Plane works in mysterious ways. . .
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Indeed, but . . .

Unread post by Antimony »

I've always been very limber with those kinds of "issues." If someone wanted a domain between an Average Domain and a Large one (would that be called a "Larvage" Domain, or an "Avarg" one? Arg? Anyway . . .) And was willing to sacrifice 100 P.P.E. for 400 so they'd have a city with more than one "important" building, I'd be cool with that. Same with a "Meater" Domain with a 1000 for 1000. Those levels are more like guidelines than actual rules.

I've had a ton of fun playing with the time distortion and relativity, too. :ok:
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Re: 147,197,952,000 Cubic Feet

Unread post by Incriptus »

When I was building a 1 cubic mile domain, I had decided that the "top' was only 52.8 feet ... when I divided the height by 100, I made the domain 10 miles x 10 miles x 52.8 feet.

I also was trying to work out my other physical laws "Video Game Map" ... ie if you walked too far in one direction you appeared at the other edge.
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Re: 147,197,952,000 Cubic Feet

Unread post by Razorwing »

I've completely redone the various sizes of the domains... because... let's face it the amount of space in a Tiny domain is really too small for anyone of human size... even a prison cell is bigger than that.

I started with a 10' x 10' x 10' area as the base starting point for a tiny domain... about the volume of an average room... and from their each new level increases each dimension by a factor of 10. As always, one can adjust the actual dimensions to suit their needs. A 10' by 10' by 10' room is very tiny for most people... barely enough room for a bed and maybe a small desk or table and a place for a little storage. Anything smaller is going to be too small to be useful to any one (except maybe a very small or tiny creature).

This works out to Tiny being about the size of a room, Small about the size of an average house, Average about the size of a large building, Big is about the size of a small city, Large about the size of a small nation and Huge about the size of a small continent. I feel the current costs should more than manage how often the larger end will appear... especially when other costs are factored in.
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Re: 147,197,952,000 Cubic Feet

Unread post by Rallan »

Razorwing wrote:I've completely redone the various sizes of the domains... because... let's face it the amount of space in a Tiny domain is really too small for anyone of human size... even a prison cell is bigger than that.


Maybe it's just intended as a sort of astral storage locker. You can't live there, but you can stash valuables in it in (relative) safety.
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Re: 147,197,952,000 Cubic Feet

Unread post by Razorwing »

Perhaps... but it would really be of very limited use.
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Re: 147,197,952,000 Cubic Feet

Unread post by eliakon »

Razorwing wrote:Perhaps... but it would really be of very limited use.

I dunno. I have found a lot of uses for having a tiny domain or three to stash things in.....
One of my characters was an astral mage and littered tiny domains in several places where he wanted to go back to.
Another one used the 'make domain for others' power to provide 'bags of holding' for people
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Re: 147,197,952,000 Cubic Feet

Unread post by Razorwing »

The biggest problem is accessibility. Most portals will be stationary... and even the movable ones tend to be a little cumbersome. So... in practical terms... just using it as a closet isn't really a practical idea since you would have to either go to the location of one of the portals (making getting the item you need right now rather difficult to acquire) or drag around something that is usually going to be large, heavy and/or awkward. Even the automatic and near instant access to the domain more or less sends you into that domain... be sure to watch your head if you didn't make the domain tall enough to accommodate you.

Besides... there are other ways to create such pocket dimensions/storage areas that are both more useful and less costly (don't require the permanent expenditure of PPE/ISP) to make or use. The permanent cost just doesn't equal the small gain one gets.
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Re: 147,197,952,000 Cubic Feet

Unread post by eliakon »

Razorwing wrote:The biggest problem is accessibility. Most portals will be stationary... and even the movable ones tend to be a little cumbersome. So... in practical terms... just using it as a closet isn't really a practical idea since you would have to either go to the location of one of the portals (making getting the item you need right now rather difficult to acquire) or drag around something that is usually going to be large, heavy and/or awkward. Even the automatic and near instant access to the domain more or less sends you into that domain... be sure to watch your head if you didn't make the domain tall enough to accommodate you.

Besides... there are other ways to create such pocket dimensions/storage areas that are both more useful and less costly (don't require the permanent expenditure of PPE/ISP) to make or use. The permanent cost just doesn't equal the small gain one gets.

Making a permanent portal into a bag, or a hat, or what have you makes moving them pretty easy.
And since at the time there was no other way to get pocket dimensional storage space with out going to rifts and bugging a Temporal Class or a high level Shifter.....
Now of course D-pocket is on the invocations list in PF2 and HU2 so its pretty easy to argue that its available for Sorcerrers and the like in Nightbane....but back then it wasn't
And the 'place holder' domains tended to not have physical walls just a 'this spot is attuned' thing going on (so no need to watch your head)
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Re: 147,197,952,000 Cubic Feet

Unread post by Razorwing »

I just noticed something about the rules... they list Size twice... once at the very beginning where you decide on how much PPE to spend/creation points you get... and then again within the actual features.

The thing is the two don't match up. A Tiny Domain is said to be about the size of a large room or small cabin for a small cost of 20 PPE... yet it gives you enough Creation points to create an area actually 100 cubic miles in size (if you put it all into Size).

Now, I feel that having the size of a domain twice is a little redundant... especially since one can customize the overall size and appearance as one needs. Therefore I would combine the overall size with the original cost of the domain... and in that respect, my altered sizes tend to fit more in line with what those descriptions provide for the size of the domains.
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Re: 147,197,952,000 Cubic Feet

Unread post by Razorwing »

The problem is that you can not use a bag or a hat as a portal as such portals must be big enough to physically enter (not just stick an arm through). Last time I checked... one can't fit their entire body into a hat.

I would suggest you re-read the entry on movable portals to see what is acceptable as a portal link.
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Re: 147,197,952,000 Cubic Feet

Unread post by Nightmask »

Razorwing wrote:The problem is that you can not use a bag or a hat as a portal as such portals must be big enough to physically enter (not just stick an arm through). Last time I checked... one can't fit their entire body into a hat.

I would suggest you re-read the entry on movable portals to see what is acceptable as a portal link.


You could pull that off with an Astral Mage though, or at least one with a spell that shrinks him in size.
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Re: 147,197,952,000 Cubic Feet

Unread post by eliakon »

Razorwing wrote:The problem is that you can not use a bag or a hat as a portal as such portals must be big enough to physically enter (not just stick an arm through). Last time I checked... one can't fit their entire body into a hat.

I would suggest you re-read the entry on movable portals to see what is acceptable as a portal link.

To enter the portal yes, you need to be able to enter it.
If you just want to reach through it into the cubic yard of space on the other side and feel around for the rabbit in your hat then presumably you would not have to physically enter the portal.

(Never mind questions of small beings, or metamorphosis, or......)
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Re: 147,197,952,000 Cubic Feet

Unread post by Razorwing »

Doesn't work that way.

Add to this is the fact that there is no magic that organizes things inside the space so that you can reach them (sucks if it lands beyond the reach of your arm) or prevent the items from getting buried under anything else you throw into such a space.

This is an Astral Domain you are sacrificing PPE to build... not a junk yard for the crap you can't be bothered to carry. You want a portable closet, just remember that you have to eventually enter it and organize it so that you can find the junk you need later.
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Re: 147,197,952,000 Cubic Feet

Unread post by eliakon »

Razorwing wrote:Doesn't work that way.

Add to this is the fact that there is no magic that organizes things inside the space so that you can reach them (sucks if it lands beyond the reach of your arm) or prevent the items from getting buried under anything else you throw into such a space.

This is an Astral Domain you are sacrificing PPE to build... not a junk yard for the crap you can't be bothered to carry. You want a portable closet, just remember that you have to eventually enter it and organize it so that you can find the junk you need later.

Errr a few points
1) "Doesn't work that way" is not a logical response. There is nothing in the books to say that it does, or does not work a specific way. There is especially nothing in the books that says it doesn't work like that. Which sort of means that claims that it doesn't work are at beast, invoking a personal house rule to cover a gap in canon
2) You could of course buy a domain feature that organizes things.... or
3) Just utilize that portion of the 100cf that you can reach ( considering that is only just over 4.6'x4.6'x4.6' an average persons arm can already reach most of this domain....) or
4) Make the domain smaller (a cubic yard, or just a couple cubic feet or what ever)
5) I don't recall anything saying that I could or could not use an astral domain in any specific way
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Re: 147,197,952,000 Cubic Feet

Unread post by Razorwing »

Where does it say that a portal into the realm can be smaller that a person? Oh yeah... it doesn't. It says that an object used as a portal HAS to be big enough to allow a person to enter through.

Sure, you can just use the portion of the area you can reach... but what happens when something you need is beyond it... or when you've filled that portion? Have you ever lost something behind a desk or a bookshelf where it was just out of your reach? In this case... well... you can't move the entrance around to get at what you need. Sorry... out of luck.

Make the realm smaller? Okay... so you are going to permanently sacrifice a significant portion of your PPE to create an astral realm the size of a safe? Wouldn't just be a lot easier just to get yourself a portable safe? There is no discount on making the realm smaller than the smallest size... you will still be spending 20 PPE points.

Okay... I will give you the last point... there is no rule that says how one has to use their astral domain. That said... buying a storage space just to store your garbage doesn't seem like the best use for that space... nor does using an astral domain for cheap parlor tricks sound like something that either an Astral Lord or Astral Mage is likely to do... not when these domains could be refuges from the Nightlords hunting them, or bases of operations for resistance against them... or even one's own private world where one doesn't have to worry about such mundane matters.

Then again... if you can only imagine using an astral domain to as some kind of glorified bag of holding... well... I guess that is saying something in itself.
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Re: 147,197,952,000 Cubic Feet

Unread post by eliakon »

Razorwing wrote:Where does it say that a portal into the realm can be smaller that a person? Oh yeah... it doesn't. It says that an object used as a portal HAS to be big enough to allow a person to enter through.

which has two problems
1) it doesn't say that you have to enter the domain to use the portal, just that if you want to enter a domain you have to be fit the portal
2) it still begs the question of "okay so I can turn into a swarm of 6" bugs now what.... (and to be honest the original idea grew out of an Astral Mage that had the Metamophosis: Insect spell, and wanted to make a way to smuggle a strike force of troops into Typhoon for a raid.....)

Razorwing wrote:Sure, you can just use the portion of the area you can reach... but what happens when something you need is beyond it... or when you've filled that portion? Have you ever lost something behind a desk or a bookshelf where it was just out of your reach? In this case... well... you can't move the entrance around to get at what you need. Sorry... out of luck.

Then depending on the exact portal, the realm, the person using it, and the resources of the group you are either totally hosed, mildly inconvenienced or some state in between.

Razorwing wrote:Make the realm smaller? Okay... so you are going to permanently sacrifice a significant portion of your PPE to create an astral realm the size of a safe? Wouldn't just be a lot easier just to get yourself a portable safe? There is no discount on making the realm smaller than the smallest size... you will still be spending 20 PPE points.

Yeah...you spend 20 PPE to get 50 build points. You have to spend 50 of those right off the bat just to get a movable portal and earth like conditions, and a location (the cheapest location is 5 points....)
Most of the people doing this would then pop for the 20 more ppe, get a nice average domain. and drop 25 of the remaining 30 points to get 'Restricted'
And yes 40 PPE is a large chunk....unless your a group of four or five nightbane, or a dozen cultests, or a ops team for the Spook Squad....not everyone uses their PPE after all.....

Razorwing wrote:Okay... I will give you the last point... there is no rule that says how one has to use their astral domain. That said... buying a storage space just to store your garbage doesn't seem like the best use for that space... nor does using an astral domain for cheap parlor tricks sound like something that either an Astral Lord or Astral Mage is likely to do... not when these domains could be refuges from the Nightlords hunting them, or bases of operations for resistance against them... or even one's own private world where one doesn't have to worry about such mundane matters.

If this was about making a garbage storage then you would have a point. But its not. So that's a strawman.
This was about making useful totally concealed dimensional pockets that could be used to store things where no one could see them.
This was about the ability to carry magic items and weapons with out hounds instantly pouncing on you
This was about the ability for one spook squad saboture to be able to carry several dozen, very large shaped charges into a restricted area so they could blow up a lab
There are all sorts of things that this could (and was) used for that were directly useful

Then again... if you can only imagine using an astral domain to as some kind of glorified bag of holding... well... I guess that is saying something in itself.[/quote]
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Re: 147,197,952,000 Cubic Feet

Unread post by Niji »

couldn't the "rules" of your astral domain also "resize" astral travelers to "Fit" anyway? so even if it was 1 cubic foot in size anything entering it becomes a new "relative" size?
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Re: 147,197,952,000 Cubic Feet

Unread post by eliakon »

Niji wrote:couldn't the "rules" of your astral domain also "resize" astral travelers to "Fit" anyway? so even if it was 1 cubic foot in size anything entering it becomes a new "relative" size?

Possibly. That would probably be a rather expensive rule though, it might be cheaper to buy a larger domain. And it might not even work on something like a Nightbane (Which could be seen as a feature not a bug if your not friendly with 'banes)
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Re: 147,197,952,000 Cubic Feet

Unread post by Tor »

Inventing a new feature like that would be a house rule. You could build the spell 'shrink self to 6 inches' into the domain to allow creators to use it at will though. Then I guess you could stick a finger into the domain, cast the spell, then fully enter it.
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Re: 147,197,952,000 Cubic Feet

Unread post by Sir_Spirit »

Razorwing wrote:Doesn't work that way.

Yep it does.
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