Missing the ISP of Astral Entities in Between the Shadowsy

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Tor
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Missing the ISP of Astral Entities in Between the Shadowsy

Unread post by Tor »

I have a 2nd printing from August 1998. Page 61 mentions the psychic powers that Lesser and Common and Greater variations get, and it mentions that they can draw ISP from other creatures or convert other creatures' PPE into ISP.

I cannot seem to find any pool for them to store this in though, does this mean their effective 'pool' for powering something is only whatever amount they drew from someone in the round?

Like say for example, a 1st level lesser entity draws 10 PPE, which converts into 2 ISP. Does that mean if they have a power that costs 3 ISP they can't use it until they attain 2nd level, so that they can draw 20 PPE and make 5 ISP out of it?

This seems like a possible raw deal for a lot of lesser entities since they might end up with random powers like Detect Psionics or Suppress Fear, which cost more than 5 ISP, and since level 2 is the highest a lesser entity can get to, they could never even use their power when drawing on PPE and would only be able to use it by leeching off a psychic!

Even in the case of leeching off psychics though, the 10 ISP a level 1 Lesser can draw in a round would not pay for something like Psychic Surgery :( Is it possible that these creatures might be unable to begin with powers that cost more than 10 ISP?

One way around this which would be interesting though: at levels 2 and 5 perhaps have entities automatically 'evolve' into the next stage? This way they could continue to advance and eventually use their powers. It also adds an interesting element that a Bound entity might eventually escape enslavement to an Astral Lord or Mage because not enough Creation Points are dedicated toward them. Although it should be possible to pay the cost for enslaving a Greater off the bad for a Lesser or Common to avoid this.
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Re: Missing the ISP of Astral Entities in Between the Shadow

Unread post by Glistam »

An Entities effective "pool" is however much it needs in order to activate the psionic power they wish to use and don't currently have the energy for. They will draw and convert energy until they have enough to do the psionic power they wish to do, and then activate it. If they wish to activate another psychic power, they start over again. If there's no more available energy they will leave/flee the area.
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Re: Missing the ISP of Astral Entities in Between the Shadow

Unread post by Tor »

Hm... doesn't really say that though does it? :(
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Re: Missing the ISP of Astral Entities in Between the Shadow

Unread post by Glistam »

Tor wrote:Hm... doesn't really say that though does it? :(

It doesn't say their pool is only limited to what they can draw in a round, either.

You are free of course to continue with your interpretation - I'll stick with mine though.
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Re: Missing the ISP of Astral Entities in Between the Shadow

Unread post by Tor »

It seems both interpretations come with ups and downs for various entities.

I guess we both agree that until they get assigned with a pool they need to be given a temporary storage capacity of sorts to allow power usage.

Your interpretation of them being able to store as much as it need to activate one power sort of favours those who have higher-cost powers, like say, pyrokinesis. They could draw a huge amount in one go and collect that power.

Low-cost power guys on the other hand would still have to draw (presumably spending an action) after every use of their not-so-impressive power, when usually the advantage of low-cost powers is you can use them more.

Either way... I guess one of these things who selects Sixth Sense is kinda screwed over :(
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Re: Missing the ISP of Astral Entities in Between the Shadow

Unread post by Glistam »

Tor wrote:It seems both interpretations come with ups and downs for various entities.

I guess we both agree that until they get assigned with a pool they need to be given a temporary storage capacity of sorts to allow power usage.

Your interpretation of them being able to store as much as it need to activate one power sort of favours those who have higher-cost powers, like say, pyrokinesis. They could draw a huge amount in one go and collect that power.

Low-cost power guys on the other hand would still have to draw (presumably spending an action) after every use of their not-so-impressive power, when usually the advantage of low-cost powers is you can use them more.

I don't see it as high-cost versus low-cost, but rather long-duration versus short/instant duration. Collecting and spending the I.S.P. to activate Telekenisis lets it be used for several minutes, for example, while a power like telekinetic punch costs I.S.P. for each attack.

Tor wrote:Either way... I guess one of these things who selects Sixth Sense is kinda screwed over :(

I thought they started with a "base" pool of I.S.P.? Sixth Sense could be charged against that base and then it's active for its duration. I don't see an issue here.
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Re: Missing the ISP of Astral Entities in Between the Shadow

Unread post by Tor »

No that's the problem, no ISP base is given, just the amount of ISP (or PPE they can change to ISP) they can draw from others per round. If they had a pool this would be easy.

They do have a PPE pool so the best approximation I can think of is to house-rule add that they can 'spend' their own PPE to get ISP (and convert ISP into stored PPE) but even then, they have very little PPE (and they need it to live, they die if it drops too low) and it takes 4 PPE to make a single ISP so it's not a feasible fuel source for most powers the minor entities have access to.
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Re: Missing the ISP of Astral Entities in Between the Shadow

Unread post by Glistam »

Then entities don't use danger sense. Or, they only use it when they've created an I.S.P. pool. Entities don't typically encounter anything that can endanger them anyway, so that all works out.
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Re: Missing the ISP of Astral Entities in Between the Shadow

Unread post by Tor »

They could end up with the power (presumably the powers assigned is kinda random), would be nice if they had a pool to use it.

I thought minor entities in particular would be in danger from a lot of stuff... like they might be eaten by larger entities since they are PPE pools themselves.
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Re: Missing the ISP of Astral Entities in Between the Shadow

Unread post by Glistam »

Well page 61 says this about entities:
They are hunted down by Mountebanks, Rage Storms, Necrophim and Vampire Specters, although sometimes a large group of entities will turn the table on one of these predators.


So they do encounter danger. Though they don't usually seek it:
For the most part, astral entities will not attack unless provoked or hungry. Powerful individuals and groups are rarely molested even then, unless the creatures believe (rightly or wrongly) that they can overpower the prospective victims.


Speaking of the Necrophim, they especially try to stay away from them and other Nightlord minions:
Most also tend to avoid Necrophim and other Nightlord minions, due to the savage reprisals such attacks bring about.


And as far as Entities having their powers assigned randomly, there's nothing in the entry to support that. The opposite in fact, as it says to select the powers:
Psionic Powers: Lesser entities get to select four powers from any two categories (except master psionics); common entities get eight powers from any of the three lesser categories, and greater entities get ten powers from the three lesser categories, and four from the master category.

Ultimately the closest thing you'll get to an answer is to look at actual specific, statted out entities in the Beyond the Supernatural or Rifts: Conversion books and see what they say regarding the matter. The entry for entities in Between the Shadows is meant to be a quick summary that encompasses as many as possibly, generically, just to give G.M.'s something to work with.
Zerebus: "I like MDC. MDC is a hundred times better than SDC."

kiralon: "...the best way to kill an old one is to crash a moon into it."

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Temporal Wizard O.C.C. update 0.8 | Rifts random encounters
New Fire magic | New Temporal magic
Grim Gulf, the Nightlands version of Century Station

Let Chaos Magic flow in your campaigns.
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