attacks per melee?

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drewkitty ~..~
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Re: attacks per melee?

Unread post by drewkitty ~..~ »

12 years……..???????

If a char does not have an h2h then they follow the "no h2h" rules.
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Re: attacks per melee?

Unread post by Killer Cyborg »

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:If a char does not have an h2h then they follow the "no h2h" rules.


Unless they have a specific number of attacks listed, as with any number of nonhuman races.
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Re: attacks per melee?

Unread post by Prysus »

jade von delioch wrote:However, the only character who wouldn't have any of those would be children, and the 1 melee attack seems fine in that situation. The reason for my thinking is this, unlike rifts (as far as I know), palladium fantasy has several Optional O.C.C.s Such as Peasant, Vagabond, Noble, Merchant, that most non adventurer npcs would fall into. All of these get Hand to Hand: Basic.

Greetings and Salutations. Scholars, Wizards, Diabolists, Summoners, Psi-Healers, and Psychic Sensitives don't get hand to hand basic without selecting it with O.C.C. Related Skills. That's just the PF2 main book (Third Printing). If I use the other books, I might find more. So no, not everyone has hand to hand except children. Farewell and safe journeys.
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Re: attacks per melee?

Unread post by jade von delioch »

Prysus wrote:Greetings and Salutations. Scholars, Wizards, Diabolists, Summoners, Psi-Healers, and Psychic Sensitives don't get hand to hand basic without selecting it with O.C.C. Related Skills. That's just the PF2 main book (Third Printing). If I use the other books, I might find more. So no, not everyone has hand to hand except children. Farewell and safe journeys.[/justify]


No, you're kind of right. they do list that skill as For the cost of one extra skill you can have H-H: Basic. Its been a while since I've played. But that being said, I think the 2 attacks for the living rule should be treated as your base number of attacks is replaced by the starting h-h skill.
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Re: attacks per melee?

Unread post by drewkitty ~..~ »

Killer Cyborg wrote:
drewkitty ~..~ wrote:If a char does not have an h2h then they follow the "no h2h" rules.


Unless they have a specific number of attacks listed, as with any number of nonhuman races.

Since it was obvious to me that the discussion was about Player Characters, not monsters. So would you be so kind to us and list out the Player Character races that have their APM listed in their racial text to support your claim.

If you cannot, please withdraw your claim.

jade von delioch wrote:No, you're kind of right. they do list that skill as For the cost of one extra skill you can have H-H: Basic. Its been a while since I've played. But that being said, I think the 2 attacks for the living rule should be treated as your base number of attacks is replaced by the starting h-h skill.

The problem with discussing the 2 APM for living here in the PF forum is that there are none in PF. (If this has been changed in newer printings, will you chime in if you have a newer printing that has them written in?)
If you are going to add the 2APMfL they should just be added to whatever the char would get acorreding to the standing rules.
Thus, if the GM adds them into his or her game, @ level 1, No-h2h: 3 APM, basic/expert/MA h2hs: 4 APM, and assassin h2h: 3 APM.

If the GM does not add them into his or her game, @ L1 a char with 'no-h2h' will have One APM, no auto-parry.
On top of that, their parries take up a APM, and the text says, when read literally, does not allow the char with 'no-h2h' to make a simultaneous attack.
Last edited by drewkitty ~..~ on Fri May 26, 2017 2:15 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: attacks per melee?

Unread post by Prysus »

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:
Killer Cyborg wrote:
drewkitty ~..~ wrote:If a char does not have an h2h then they follow the "no h2h" rules.


Unless they have a specific number of attacks listed, as with any number of nonhuman races.

Since it was obvious to me that the discussion was about Player Characters, not monsters. So would you be so kind to us and list out the Player Character races that have their APM listed in their racial text to support your claim.

If you cannot, please withdraw your claim.

Greetings and Salutations. Does it need to be a complete list, or will a few do? Because if you only need a few, from Monsters & Animals (second edition, first printing) ...

Adram
Centaur
Jungle Ogre (Dogre)
Rahu-Men
Syvan

All are considered "optional player characters" (as indicated by the "R.C.C." next to them on the Contents page, because that's what the note tells us "R.C.C." means). I could argue a few more, and I might be able to find more if I use other books, but Monsters & Animals was within arms reach and I'm not sure I care enough to do a complete list and go through every single book (again, as I already did it making my Race list). Thank you for your time and patience, please have a nice day. Farewell and safe journeys.
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drewkitty ~..~
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Re: attacks per melee?

Unread post by drewkitty ~..~ »

Thank you Prysus

Will not be arguing about the use of the RCC label because it was defined how it was being used.

I do note that the Dogres it is an ether a set amount or as per class, and that for the Rahu-men it is more APMfL then a set amount.

The Syvan appear to be a real RCC (in the have to have this class since). Also not recommended as player characters even though they are optionally available.
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I was right to call for a listing of supporting text, rather then accepting an unsupported claim.
Even so, what was being talked about was the basic rules, not about the exceptions to the basic rules.

If jade is the GM of the game he/she can make modifications to it. Not that I would agree with jade due to there is a perfectly canon set of rules that cover chars with 'no h2h' skill.
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Re: attacks per melee?

Unread post by jade von delioch »

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:The problem with discussing the 2 APM for living here in the PF forum is that there are none in PF. (If this has been changed in newer printings, will you chime in if you have a newer printing that has them written in?)
If you are going to add the 2APMfL they should just be added to whatever the char would get acorreding to the standing rules.
Thus, if the GM adds them into his or her game, @ level 1, No-h2h: 3 APM, basic/expert/MA h2hs: 4 APM, and assassin h2h: 3 APM.

If the GM does not add them into his or her game, @ L1 a char with 'no-h2h' will have One APM, no auto-parry.
On top of that, their parries take up a APM, and the text says, when read literally, does not allow the char with 'no-h2h' to make a simultaneous attack.




Right. I think that, for me, the problem comes down to the fact that in every book since whenever they decided to make this change - when it was decided to fix a copy/paste mistake in rifts unilaterally across all of the all of the palladium products (the 2AFL), they just added two additional attacks to all the character stats in each of the newer palladium fantasy books without 1) updating the core book or, 2) saying anything (as far as I have found) about the change in any of those books to Update or Augment the standing rules. So now we have figure out which books were effected and double check the stats or include it. The earliest book I have found that includes this rule is from 1999 - I would say that the most of us playing wouldn't have know about the change. I've been playing off and on since 1996-97 and this is the first time I've heard of it.

Now I am curious to know if the rule was updated or amended in the newer Hard Bound core book. As far as I know, that book is pretty much a reprint of the same old second editon text and not an update lie the rifts hard bound book was (which is a crime IMHO).
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Re: attacks per melee?

Unread post by jade von delioch »

Adram get 3 melee attacks flat. They can't learn a O.C.C. - they are too lazy to even bother to ever learn anything it would seem.... An untrained person will get 1 additional attack at levels 6 and 12; but I wonder if that would still apply in the case of a Adram?
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