Creating Living Creatures with Elemental Magic

[Father Goose]

The Earth Elemental spell, Sculpt & Animate Clay Animals, suggests creative uses for this magic combined with the Air Elemental spell, Breath of Life. How would that work, exactly? Breath of Life is meant to restore life to someone who has died, not create life in something new. Also, assuming that this worked as suggested, which duration would be used? Would it be the limited duration of the Earth spell or the permanent duration of the Air spell? Would the creature die or become comatose if it moved beyond the 200 feet restriction of the Earth spell, or would that cease to be a limiter once the creature is "alive?"
Has anyone considered this combination for use in their game? What conclusions did you draw from it? Is there additional information/clarification officially published somewhere else?

[Prysus]

The Earth Elemental spell, Sculpt & Animate Clay Animals, suggests creative uses for this magic combined with the Air Elemental spell, Breath of Life. How would that work, exactly? Breath of Life is meant to restore life to someone who has died, not create life in something new. Also, assuming that this worked as suggested, which duration would be used? Would it be the limited duration of the Earth spell or the permanent duration of the Air spell? Would the creature die or become comatose if it moved beyond the 200 feet restriction of the Earth spell, or would that cease to be a limiter once the creature is "alive?"
Has anyone considered this combination for use in their game? What conclusions did you draw from it? Is there additional information/clarification officially published somewhere else?

Greetings and Salutations. I'm not sure if this is ever clarified in any of the books. I could see various ways to argue the matter, but for me ...

The spell refers to the combination as "golem-like" and "zombie-like." So, like those two spells, I tend to think of it as permanent and the sculpt can now travel greater distances. If this was simply about making a tougher creature, then I don't believe Breath of Life would be necessary (even though that's not how Breath of Life works when used alone). The combinations they mention cost between 110 P.P.E. and 140 P.P.E. This also requires at least a Level 7 Earth Warlock to perform, as well as a Level 5 Air Warlock (or just one Level 7 Earth/Air Warlock), with at least three spells to work in unison. Meanwhile, a single Level 8 Warlock can cast Create Golem for 80 P.P.E. with only 1 spell.

Having to use combinations with a different magic class, using more spells, at a higher P.P.E. cost, and still having less resistances than a true Golem doesn't seem too bad to me. The biggest issue I can see is where it discusses making a copy of someone, and then making that permanent. Of course, the doppleganger would still be rather dull-witted and probably not very convincing to anyone speaking with it. Though I can see it being an interesting adventure hook ... several eye-witnesses saw So-and-So murder Mr. McGuffin. Maybe So-and-So has an alibi, but hard to refute the witnesses. Enter the player characters to uncover the golem clone. [End random musing]

Anyways, I think that covers my thoughts on the matter. Hope some of that was interesting if not helpful. Farewell and safe journey for now.

[Father Goose]

Thank you, Prysus. Your insights are very helpful, as usual. I came across that entry and found it both odd (by use of Breath of Life in a manner contrary to the description of the spell) and lacking in clarity (par for the course with much of PB rules), so I thought it best to seek the collective wisdom of the community before deciding how I feel about this use of the spell. Your comparison and subsequent argument for interpretation seem reasonable and I can't find any fault with your logic. I like the adventure idea you proposed and I think I may adopt it at some point in the future.
I am interested in seeing if anyone has a different take on this, but so far it seems clear.
Thanks for taking the time to address my question.

[ShadowLogan]

The Earth Elemental spell, Sculpt & Animate Clay Animals, suggests creative uses for this magic combined with the Air Elemental spell, Breath of Life. How would that work, exactly? Breath of Life is meant to restore life to someone who has died, not create life in something new. Also, assuming that this worked as suggested, which duration would be used? Would it be the limited duration of the Earth spell or the permanent duration of the Air spell? Would the creature die or become comatose if it moved beyond the 200 feet restriction of the Earth spell, or would that cease to be a limiter once the creature is "alive?"

Well there are 3 spell chains:
S&ACA + Clay to Stone + Breath of Life = Stone Golem
S&ACA + Clay to Iron + Breath of Life = Iron Golem
S&ASC +Clay to Stone + Stone to Flesh + Breath of Life = Zombie

Technically the wording is Golem/Zombie-like, so they are not "true" Golem/Zombies but could probably pass for them. Afterall the stats for the chain don't really match true Golem/Zombies as the spell chain version given the level based nature of some stat scores, and game stats in some cases favor "true" or "like", and the "trues" have special features (fearless, HF, AR, vision, skills).

It might be for the purposes of "breath of life", that the animating force of S&ACA is such that it counts as "recently dead".

With RUE's Techno-Wizard guildelines as a basis for spell combinations (as there aren't any in general AFAIK), spell parameters can be altered (the guidelines have a few examples) by other spells in the chain.

I do not think the creature would die/comatose if the caster moved beyond 200ft. Though I would point out that Breath of Life has a percentage chance of working, so you could cast all that PPE and still not bring it to life (76-85% chance depending on level).

Meanwhile, a single Level 8 Warlock can cast Create Golem for 80 P.P.E. with only 1 spell.

The Create Golem Ritual/Spell also incurs a permanent SDC cost (6), requires two onyx gems (1000gp each minimum), and some assorted materials as the Elemental version is identical to the Wizard version in all but PPE cost. This would put some restrictions on true Golem "production" by any one Warlock, where as the spell chain is superior in respect to "production" (no SDC cost, no gem requirement, no raw materials) with no real limitation.

However there are advantages and disadvantages to the Spell Chain vs Ritual versions in their game stats.

[Library Ogre]

Personally, I'd view it as a special exception in how Breath of Life can be used. Normally, Breath of Life can only restore the dead. However, something about S&ACA allows it to interact with Breath of Life in a way that exceeds its usual parameters.

[ShadowLogan]

Personally, I'd view it as a special exception in how Breath of Life can be used. Normally, Breath of Life can only restore the dead. However, something about S&ACA allows it to interact with Breath of Life in a way that exceeds its usual parameters.

I agree it amounts to an exception for BoL.

However if it was just S&ACA, why don't we have a notation for using BoL with just S&ACA? Sure the results aren't as impressive as Golem/Zombie chains in terms of SDC or combat bonuses, but the other attributes would be the same. And for just 90PPE vs 130-160PPE for the more capable versions. The PPE isn't wasted on the more demanding chain, but depending on what you want the creature to do it might not warrant turning it into stone/iron/flesh.