Should thieves be able to select Surveillance.

[Greyaxe]

I ask because it is listed as a Military skill and I think the ability to tail someone is valuable to a thief. Thieves can not take military skills. While we are on the subject, I am also of the opinion that a good forgerer should be able to take Heraldry as well.
Thoughts?

[Whiskeyjack]

Makes sense to me. I often allow skills outside of those allowed if it makes sense, or if the player can come up with a good in game reason to have the skill.

[Warshield73]

I ask because it is listed as a Military skill and I think the ability to tail someone is valuable to a thief. Thieves can not take military skills. While we are on the subject, I am also of the opinion that a good forgerer should be able to take Heraldry as well.
Thoughts?

Both of these make perfect sense and should be allowed. The forger taking Heraldry reminds me of Chaucer in A Knight's Tale.

Makes sense to me. I often allow skills outside of those allowed if it makes sense, or if the player can come up with a good in game reason to have the skill.

You have to do this in almost every game.

[Greyaxe]

I ask because it is listed as a Military skill and I think the ability to tail someone is valuable to a thief. Thieves can not take military skills. While we are on the subject, I am also of the opinion that a good forgerer should be able to take Heraldry as well.
Thoughts?

Both of these make perfect sense and should be allowed. The forger taking Heraldry reminds me of Chaucer in A Knight's Tale. My thoughts exactly.

Makes sense to me. I often allow skills outside of those allowed if it makes sense, or if the player can come up with a good in game reason to have the skill.

You have to do this in almost every game.

I generally follow guidelines but i think i may run this past my GM.

[Reagren Wright]

Makes sense to me . Thieves don't even come with prowl. Have to choose it as an O.C.C Releated Skill.

[kiralon]

I think they should as well, not being able to is a bit strange

[Hotrod]

Yes. In general, if a skill seems appropriate to the fluff of a class, I would allow it. Some examples:
If the skill is required to use the class's starting equipment (more common in Rifts than in Palladium Fantasy)
If the skill is needed to fulfill a requirement of becoming that class (Waterchanters have to go on a 2,000 mile kayak trip, so they get pilot: small boats)
If the skill goes logically with some of the typical missions associated with that class (thieves taking Surveillance is a good example)
If you're trying to make a class that doesn't exist in the game by adapting a similar class to it. For example, if you want to make a spy, the Thief O.C.C. is about as close as you'll get.

All that said, if you want to take a skill that's well outside your character's O.C.C., the burden is on you as a player to make your case that it fits the background of your character. In this case, if the character was used to spy on people as a child, that would work for me, especially if the people he worked for or spied on can be fodder for developing future adventures.

[Braden Campbell]

I generally follow guidelines but i think i may run this past my GM.

Cool with me.

[Jack Burton]

I ask because it is listed as a Military skill and I think the ability to tail someone is valuable to a thief. Thieves can not take military skills. While we are on the subject, I am also of the opinion that a good forgerer should be able to take Heraldry as well.
Thoughts?

Thieves have been practicing the art of surveillance forever. When they case their targets (people or property), they're conducting surveillance. I would say from a practical and realistic standpoint point, the answer to your question is "YES."

Just for fun, I took a peek at the Surveillance skill in the PFRPG book to see what spin it took in the Palladium world. I'm much more familiar with it in the Heroes Unlimited or Beyond the Supernatural settings. I found it random that the Surveillance skill allows the person possessing it the "use of common magic items, magic potions, and magic scrolls/spells." Okaaayyyyy........ I've got to be missing the context there or something. Anywho.....

I really like how Tailing is included with Surveillance. The skill is well thought out in that regard. In real life, a static surveillance often times turns into a mobile one, whether vehicular or on foot. There's your "Surveillance" turning into "Tailing." They're one and the same. Are you watching someone while they're walking through the village or are you watching them while they're meeting with a dwarf sitting two tables away from you in the tavern? Plus, I've never met anyone who was good at following someone on foot but who stunk at surveilling from a fixed position (or vice versa). A person's skill level at either, whether good, bad or somewhere in the middle, is typically about the same. (Unless the person is just a wretched driver!)

Very interesting question, Greyaxe.

[Hendrik]

Yes, excellent question.

As said before, do what you think necessary for this to work for you, the campaign and makes sense for the character.

Other suggestions:

Heraldry: This actually should be a "Scholar, Noble & Technical Skill" as heraldry is knowing, recognizing, researching and drawing heraldic symbols, i.e. usually coat of arms and their accoutrements, and genealogy. A soldier does not need it much but for seeing who is an enemy (prize) and who is not. The art of heraldy goes much further. A noble needs it, a scholar exercises it, and it certainly has a "technical" aspect (drawing).

Surveillance: I would rather suggest to make a separate "Tailing & stake-out" skill and put it in the "Rogue/Thief" skill category. Basically that would be "surveillance" without the rest that is not tailing and spiced up instead by the stake-out component.

Kindest regards
Hendrik

[kiralon]

First ed had stalk and capture, it was in the yin sloth book I believe.

I don't have much issue with people picking things from other classes if they come up with a decent story why they have it. Good story trumps rules, I have even modified rules for an adventure when a particular character played a storyteller and came up with some awesome stories in game that weren't quite right factually, but the story was good so I went with the flow.