Scroll Question

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kiralon
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Scroll Question

Unread post by kiralon »

If the pc's are in a circle of protection from evil, and a dwarvling (evil) uses a scroll of charm made by a scrupulous priest of ra, does the player get the bonus of +3 to save because the user of the scroll is evil, or not because the person who made the scroll and its cast at his proficiency is the proper source, or is it yes because either of the 2 was evil.
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Re: Scroll Question

Unread post by Hotrod »

I would say that the intent of the person using the scroll is the determining factor. If the alignments for your scenario were reversed, and a good person was using a scroll created by an evil mage, then those in the circle wouldn't get the save. Ward effectiveness for triggered wards isn't affected by the alignment of the diabolist, so why would a scroll creator's alignment influence whether it can be stopped by alignment-based protections?
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Re: Scroll Question

Unread post by Greyaxe »

I play magic as the only true neutral in the game. Therefore while the casters strength can imbue a scroll with greater energy the release of that energy is totally neutral. Therefore whatever the properties of the spell are would be case as is, and have no effect on the nature of the person casting it nor the person who made the scroll.


Simple answer the players would get the protection from evil because the person releasing the spell is evil. The alignment of the creator is not a factor.
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Re: Scroll Question

Unread post by Library Ogre »

I would say the attack is coming from the dwarvling, not the person who made the scroll. An exception would be if the spell were being provided by something aligned... a rune weapon, or a religious relic.
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kiralon
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Re: Scroll Question

Unread post by kiralon »

If it was a mage I would definitely say it was the caster, but a scroll created by a priest is done mostly by divine intervention (3rd part of the power is create scroll and the priest doesn't need to know the spell), is this enough to make the scroll good. The magic isn't coming from the dwarvling, he's just releasing it and pointing it at something.
I do align some magics with good (good priestly cast stuff and bad like necromancy and evil priest magic and neutral which is most spellcasters and warlocks and neutral priests).

@Hotrod, so if it was a ward made by a good diabolist and made permanent with dragonbone and the evil dwarvlings truename was part of it so when it went off the dwarvling wasn't effected, but the evil dwarvling is the one carrying the ward around in his hand and the effect was to turn people blue, would someone with a ring of protection from evil +1 to all saves vs evil sources get the bonus. The dwarvling is walking around trying to turn people blue but the ward was made by a good diabolist (that's why its turn blue and not die die die die die die die die die die die die die die die die blind)
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Re: Scroll Question

Unread post by eliakon »

My personal call would be that the dwarveling can't bypass the circle simply by trying to weasel word around the circle.
The reason is that otherwise the protection from alignment abilities are pretty moot as you can argue that anything other than a punch or bite is really not the person but something else they are simply setting into motion ("The arrow isn't evil so it shouldn't be affected by the circle. I'm just using the neutral arrow so its all good")

Basically I would look at it the same way that Invisibility: Superior can determine if an action is hostile or not...aka it works because magic.
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kiralon
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Re: Scroll Question

Unread post by kiralon »

If an evil wizard casts charm that an evil source, the ppe is his and he's causing the spell to occur.

As it happens it actually says supernatural evil things can throw rocks and spears and the like through a circle of protection from evil (However, they can attack from a distance outside the perimeter of the circle with range weapons: bows and arrows, thrown spears, rocks, etc.)

Circles of protection tend to only stop evil magical things from entering and giving bonuses to save vs the thing they protect against.

Rune weapon casting by the good guy at the bad guy is in a circle of protection from good, and the good guy uses a power from a neutral rune weapon, is the rune weapon classed as the caster, to me the spell would be a neutral spell because of the sword, and a good spell because the caster is linked magically to the rune weapon, but a wand, scroll or the like standard magic item is a bit different.
Do wands made by a bad mage detect as evil? or are they just neutral items.
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Re: Scroll Question

Unread post by zyanitevp »

kiralon wrote:If an evil wizard casts charm that an evil source, the ppe is his and he's causing the spell to occur.

As it happens it actually says supernatural evil things can throw rocks and spears and the like through a circle of protection from evil (However, they can attack from a distance outside the perimeter of the circle with range weapons: bows and arrows, thrown spears, rocks, etc.)

Circles of protection tend to only stop evil magical things from entering and giving bonuses to save vs the thing they protect against.

Rune weapon casting by the good guy at the bad guy is in a circle of protection from good, and the good guy uses a power from a neutral rune weapon, is the rune weapon classed as the caster, to me the spell would be a neutral spell because of the sword, and a good spell because the caster is linked magically to the rune weapon, but a wand, scroll or the like standard magic item is a bit different.
Do wands made by a bad mage detect as evil? or are they just neutral items.

I have always felt the wand is intent vs maker as to whether or not it is evil.
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