Human languages across the world

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Suicycho
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Human languages across the world

Unread post by Suicycho »

Forgive me if this has already been discussed or readily available in the PFRPG core book.

How different do you think the human languages from different parts of the world are? Particularly the more “civilized” kingdoms.

I would guess that The western Empire, Eastern territories & Timiro speak basically the same language flavored with regional accents & slang.

But what about Land of the South Winds, Byzantium, Troker and other areas?

Thanks for your input.
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Re: Human languages across the world

Unread post by Reagren Wright »

With humans on the Palladium World, their original language is Southern (Land of the South Winds/Yin Sloth). When humans
make their way toward the western peninsula, their culture and language begins to change possibly because of interaction
with dwarves, elves, gnomes, and possibly from religous institutions such as the Church of Light and Dark. This creates the
Western Langauge. Meanwhile, humans who followed the Elves on their trek eastward over the Old Kingdom Mountains
inteact with Elves in their new kingdom (Timiro), the Elf langauge influences these Southern speaking humans adding new
words to their lexicon (just as French changed Old English) and thus the Eastern language was born.

As for the Northern Language, the language of the Eoten (traditional North Folk) is entirely unique to their people. The
encounter with Elves, later Westerners and Easterners changes the basis of their langauge creating the modern version
spoken by Bizantians.

This seems to be the route based on the origins of humankind based on the historical cannon data from all the books.
We shall see if material in Lopan and Phi cements this origin story of 4 human languages from the 5 human kingdoms.
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Suicycho
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Re: Human languages across the world

Unread post by Suicycho »

Reagren Wright wrote:With humans on the Palladium World, their original language is Southern (Land of the South Winds/Yin Sloth). When humans
make their way toward the western peninsula, their culture and language begins to change possibly because of interaction
with dwarves, elves, gnomes, and possibly from religous institutions such as the Church of Light and Dark. This creates the
Western Langauge. Meanwhile, humans who followed the Elves on their trek eastward over the Old Kingdom Mountains
inteact with Elves in their new kingdom (Timiro), the Elf langauge influences these Southern speaking humans adding new
words to their lexicon (just as French changed Old English) and thus the Eastern language was born.

As for the Northern Language, the language of the Eoten (traditional North Folk) is entirely unique to their people. The
encounter with Elves, later Westerners and Easterners changes the basis of their langauge creating the modern version
spoken by Bizantians.

This seems to be the route based on the origins of humankind based on the historical cannon data from all the books.
We shall see if material in Lopan and Phi cements this origin story of 4 human languages from the 5 human kingdoms.


Thanks for the info.

But I guess what I’m really asking is how similar do you think they are? Particularly Between the western empire, eastern territories & Timoro? Would someone speaking western dialect be easily understood in the Eastern Territories and vice versa?
Is the difference similar to American and British English? Or as varied as European languages?

As far as Byzantium I’ve always thought of their language is Nordic.

Is there a “common” merchant language etc?

Thanks again for your info & input.
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Re: Human languages across the world

Unread post by glitterboy2098 »

probably about as similar as Italian, French, and Spanish are. all of those are part of the same language family ('romance languages') and derive from the same Latin roots, but they obviously have evolved quite differently, from both the changes inherent in use over time, and the absorption of non-latin language words, grammar, and other elements from the cultures they interact with.
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Re: Human languages across the world

Unread post by Veknironth »

Well, I'd say they're all derived from a root language but have had thousands of years to evolve and differentiate. There might be similarities, but you can't understand one without learning it. The language barrier is real and it's solid.

Let me add on to this. How similar do we think the non-verbal communication is? Are the gestures the same? Are some obscene in the Western Empire, but innocuous in Byzantium? How much does slang and such differ within nations? I'd expect the Byzantium culture to be more uniform, but I would expect major differences in the Western Empire and Easter Territories.

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Re: Human languages across the world

Unread post by Prysus »

Suicycho wrote:Forgive me if this has already been discussed or readily available in the PFRPG core book.

How different do you think the human languages from different parts of the world are? Particularly the more “civilized” kingdoms.

I would guess that The western Empire, Eastern territories & Timiro speak basically the same language flavored with regional accents & slang.

But what about Land of the South Winds, Byzantium, Troker and other areas?

Thanks for your input.
Suicycho wrote:But I guess what I’m really asking is how similar do you think they are? Particularly Between the western empire, eastern territories & Timoro? Would someone speaking western dialect be easily understood in the Eastern Territories and vice versa?
Is the difference similar to American and British English? Or as varied as European languages?

As far as Byzantium I’ve always thought of their language is Nordic.

Greetings and Salutations. The answer to most of your questions is both yes and no at the same time. As the example you continued to provide, Western and Eastern are rather different. However, because both are popular languages, you can probably go to the other and find someone who speaks the language so you'll be get around without too much difficulty. Now to give the more elaborate answer (using primarily PF2 main book, page 50; and Book 12: Library of Bletherad, page 41).

The Western Empire speaks Western (or Western Empire). This is "the most commonly spoken human language." The language is an "unusual and complex language that allows for many nuances and different shades of meaning." As a result, someone can easily "say something without really committing to it." This is also known as "the language of liars."

Eastern Territory and Timiro speak Eastern. The language is "widely used and easy to pick up." Note: Not only does the Eastern speaking nations cover a sizable area of the known world, it also includes Lopan which is a popular Western vacation spot and also has some dealings with Bizantium. Combined with an easy to learn language, this helps explain why it's so widely spoken.

South-Winds speaks Southern Dialect. This appears (to me) to cover a wide range of variations as it covers "many of the Yin-Sloth Jungle tongues (many of the jungle languages don't have any form of writing)." This tells us there are "many" tongues covered by this single language selection. The language is "slightly more difficult to learn than the others." Not many people who travel here speak Southern, so they have to deal in Eastern of Elven. However, this will cause resentment with the Southerners.

Bizantium speaks Northern. Little is said about the language itself, but we do know that it's "the least known of the human languages worldwide." Most Bizantiums also speak Elven. Any "self-respecting Bizantium sailor and soldier also knows" Eastern and Elven. Basically, Bizantiums will typically know your language, so there's little motivation for other nations to speak Northern. If it's not your native language, you probably won't speak it. Yet, every major trading city in the world will have an area that speaks Northern (so captains and crews have some place they can feel at home). There's also a rumor that many natives are abandoning the language in favor of more popular languages.

Note: The above are listed from top to bottom in order of how common the human language is in the world. I listed Southern above Northern because while not many speak Southern, some non-natives do, unlike what we're told about Northern. Even though you can find an area in every major trading city, if natives of Northern are starting to abandon their language then it's not very popular (in my opinion).

From what I can gather, each language may cover a wide variety of variation. So, Western might be "similar to American and British English" with the main Empire having one version while their colonies on the other side the Sea of Scarlet Waters (across the pond) may have varied some over time. Eastern Territory is made up of many, many kingdoms, which are bound to have different "regional accents & slang." Southern tells us already that it's made up of many tongues.

Suicycho wrote:Is there a “common” merchant language etc?

Thanks again for your info & input.

That would be Elven. Sign Language is also universal. Because everyone wants to do business with the Western Empire, merchants will commonly know this language. Next I'd put it at Eastern, because it's easy to learn and wide spread. After that it probably gets more specialized to your area and race.

Hope that helps. Farewell and safe journeys for now.
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Re: Human languages across the world

Unread post by Prysus »

Reagren Wright wrote:With humans on the Palladium World, their original language is Southern (Land of the South Winds/Yin Sloth).

Greetings and Salutations. I'd say that's debatable, at best. Though maybe I'm missing some sources, and if so I hope you can help provide them for me.

PF2, page 279, tells us that the humans who formed the Western Empire came from the south. This passage also tells us that people "incorrectly attribute the Land of the South Winds and or the northern jungle coast as the place of man's origins." So we know attributing Western Empire origins to the area of South-Winds would be incorrect. The Timeline on page 281 tells us the Land of the South Winds was officially formed 2,100 years ago, nearly 4,000 years after the Western Empire was formed. The Yin-Sloth Jungles had the Kawan (original humans that get magically nuked by the gods), which are now the Tezcat. The Tezcat speak "Goblin" (Yin-Sloth Jungles, page 20), which I'm figuring would now be Gobblely. None of this, to me, points to Southern Dialect (a human language) as the origins for the Western language.

Alternately, I can guess maybe you're approaching this from the perspective that the Southern Dialect is simply what every barbarian-like humans spoke, then evolved into Western. Then to Eastern. Then, a few hundred later, some dukes from the West or East returned to the South, then reverted to the barbarian language that hasn't changed in over 4,000 years.

Maybe you have some South-Winds origin and history you're also trying to make canon that would help explain this?

Reagren Wright wrote:When humans
make their way toward the western peninsula, their culture and language begins to change possibly because of interaction
with dwarves, elves, gnomes, and possibly from religous institutions such as the Church of Light and Dark. This creates the
Western Langauge. Meanwhile, humans who followed the Elves on their trek eastward over the Old Kingdom Mountains
inteact with Elves in their new kingdom (Timiro), the Elf langauge influences these Southern speaking humans adding new
words to their lexicon (just as French changed Old English) and thus the Eastern language was born.

I'll agree that Eastern is likely heavily influenced by Elven, but the origins to the Southern Dialect for a human language to a kingdom that won't be formed for a few hundred more years still seems odd to me. Since the canon from Rifter #63 has it that humans decided to migrate away from the human ruled land so they could ruled by Elves and treated as second-class citizens (up until they realized that seemed stupid and grew restless), and all the humans seemed to come from that one location only, I suppose Western and Elven would be the origins here.

Reagren Wright wrote:As for the Northern Language, the language of the Eoten (traditional North Folk) is entirely unique to their people. The
encounter with Elves, later Westerners and Easterners changes the basis of their langauge creating the modern version
spoken by Bizantians.

This seems to be the route based on the origins of humankind based on the historical cannon data from all the books.

I'm going to think you have the Northern language correct, as you wrote the last Bizantium book. :)

Reagren Wright wrote:We shall see if material in Lopan and Phi cements this origin story of 4 human languages from the 5 human kingdoms.

As an individual, I truly hope not. Farewell and safe journeys for now.
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Rifter #52; From Ruins to Runes (Living Rune Weapons; playable characters and NPC)
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Re: Human languages across the world

Unread post by kiralon »

As they take different skill rolls I play the languages as being totally different, with the exception of gobbely and faerie, which are similar enough that you can sort of speak one if you speak the other. I also added a language called tradespeak which uses bits of lots of languages and is spoken in most ports.
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Re: Human languages across the world

Unread post by Library Ogre »

Of course, there's also the question of "Are all human cultures native to Palladium, thus sharing linguistic heritages"? IF we assume that all of them derived from Southern, and differentiated themselves from there, we might go with a Latin->Romance languages model. However, what if some are interdimensional transplants? what if the original Western Empire folks don't come from the South, but instead appeared in the Old Kingdom, then migrated to someplace less in the middle of a catastrophic war between elves and dwarves? Or the humans of the North were descended from crews of ships who went missing the Bermuda triangle?

(In the Guardians of the Flame series, you have a group of physically Pasifika people who speak an evolved Old Norse dialect because, it is revealed, a powerful wizard stole a bunch of Vikings and settled them among the Pasifika folks, and they took over, language and lifestyle, but whose Nordic physical traits were absorbed).
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