Stats for Circle of Absolute Elemental Power 2nd ed?

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Dragon Mage
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Stats for Circle of Absolute Elemental Power 2nd ed?

Unread post by Dragon Mage »

Hey everyone!

Any ideas what the 2nd edition fantasy stats would be for the Circle of Absolute Elemental Power?

A.) P.P.E. cost?

I figure since the most powerful circles cost 500 P.P.E., that should be a good starting point. But something like this should cost thousands of P.P.E. BUT the circle maker has to sacrifice 4 greater elementals so that should also bring the P.P.E. cost down. Any thoughts?

B.) P.P.E. the circle maker would get with the bonus power of becoming a 10th level warlock? Instead of being able to cast a total of 40 spells per 24 hours?

Right now looking at the 1st Ed. Fantasy book, a Warlock with 2 elements gets 10 spells per day for each of the elements they draw their power from I.E.: 10 fire and 10 air. Looking over the 2nd Ed. Fantasy Book a Warlock with two elements gets 2D4x10+40 P.P.E. plus 2d6 P.P.E. per level vs. 2D4x10+40 P.P.E. plus 2d6 P.P.E. per level for a Warlock with one element. The circle in 1st Ed. gives the circle maker 10 spells of each element I.E.: 10 air, 10 earth, 10 fire, and 10 fire. So, it looks like to me in 2nd Ed. the circle maker should get 2D4x10+80 plus 2d6x10 P.P.E. Any thoughts?


Thanks,

Dragon Mage. :clown:
Last edited by Dragon Mage on Sun Nov 19, 2017 5:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Stats for Circle of Absolute Elemental Power 2nd ed?

Unread post by Dragon Mage »

Updated first post.
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Re: Stats for Circle of Absolute Elemental Power 2nd ed?

Unread post by drewkitty ~..~ »

Which book was it in, in ed1?
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Re: Stats for Circle of Absolute Elemental Power 2nd ed?

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drewkitty ~..~ wrote:Which book was it in, in ed1?

Hi,

World book 6: Island at the End of the World pg. 137.
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Re: Stats for Circle of Absolute Elemental Power 2nd ed?

Unread post by The Dark Elf »

a) include the sacrifice from the elementals in the PPE cost (but it could be tapped into as u mention). Then work out how much u want the summoner to bring to the ritual. But I would say that should be thousands as it is sooooooo powerful!
But to be able to sacrifice 4 elementals a couple of thousand PPE is probably the least issue of this circle.

b) Id leave the spell casting as "per 24hrs"
-or just use the summoners own PPE - I wouldnt give any extra PPE at all to the summoner.

Thats my initial thoughts (without the book infront of me).

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Re: Stats for Circle of Absolute Elemental Power 2nd ed?

Unread post by Dragon Mage »

The Dark Elf wrote:a) include the sacrifice from the elementals in the PPE cost (but it could be tapped into as u mention). Then work out how much u want the summoner to bring to the ritual. But I would say that should be thousands as it is sooooooo powerful!
But to be able to sacrifice 4 elementals a couple of thousand PPE is probably the least issue of this circle.

b) Id leave the spell casting as "per 24hrs"
-or just use the summoners own PPE - I wouldnt give any extra PPE at all to the summoner.

Thats my initial thoughts (without the book infront of me).

PS-LOVE that adventure!


Yes, it's one of my favorite adventures. This is the first time I get to run the adventure.

Okay here goes.

a) Might be a to high of a P.P.E. cost to create, but right now I'm thinking 15,000 P.P.E. The sacrifice of 4 greater elementals gives you at the most 14,400 points if you roll 12 6's in a row. That's not going to happen very much, lol. Even IF the circle maker is powerful enough to kill never mind summon and control 4 greater elementals. It would take a single Summoner of 16th level at least to summon and control that many. Also at one point Archie says the circle could only be created by an old one (I.E. an Alien Intelligence) or one of the mages from the Time of a Thousand Magicks. So a good reason to also have a very high cost. Plus the circle is super powerful...

b) Might be best to leave the 40 spells per day.

Anyone have any other ideas on this?

Peace,

Dragon Mage.
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Re: Stats for Circle of Absolute Elemental Power 2nd ed?

Unread post by eliakon »

My solution would honestly be "P.P.E. cost: If you have to ask you cant afford it."
Seriously this is basically a doomsday spell. A single casting will wipe out entire nations and there is basically nothing that can stop it short of direct divine intervention. It has been used twice.
Once wiped out a good chunk of the continent, the other bids fair to destroy the entire world...

I figure that the caster in the adventure had found some sort of obscure PPE talisman that they had stocked the absurd number of PPE needed for it and they used that to power the casting.

We can look at some baselines though The first is "summon Demon Planet" is 35,000 P.P.E. and that spell is basically an open rift, being aided by the demon planet, to allow it to temporarily escape its binding... so in the final analysis its not necessarily more powerful.
A second bench mark is the Black Obelisk, which needs batteries, amplifiers and a nexus for something between 6,000 PPE per hour to well over 9,000 PPE per hour to simply maintain the effect it has running...
This DOES give us a ball park though.
That ballpark is "Spells that tamper with the forces of gods and Old Ones and their ilk should cost many tens of thousands at a minimum to cast"
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Re: Stats for Circle of Absolute Elemental Power 2nd ed?

Unread post by Dragon Mage »

eliakon wrote:We can look at some baselines though The first is "summon Demon Planet" is 35,000 P.P.E. and that spell is basically an open rift, being aided by the demon planet, to allow it to temporarily escape its binding... so in the final analysis its not necessarily more powerful.
A second bench mark is the Black Obelisk, which needs batteries, amplifiers and a nexus for something between 6,000 PPE per hour to well over 9,000 PPE per hour to simply maintain the effect it has running...
This DOES give us a ball park though.
That ballpark is "Spells that tamper with the forces of gods and Old Ones and their ilk should cost many tens of thousands at a minimum to cast"


Can you please give me the name of the book that the Black Obelisk is found in with pg. number please?

Thanks.

Dragon Mage.
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Re: Stats for Circle of Absolute Elemental Power 2nd ed?

Unread post by eliakon »

Dragon Mage wrote:
eliakon wrote:We can look at some baselines though The first is "summon Demon Planet" is 35,000 P.P.E. and that spell is basically an open rift, being aided by the demon planet, to allow it to temporarily escape its binding... so in the final analysis its not necessarily more powerful.
A second bench mark is the Black Obelisk, which needs batteries, amplifiers and a nexus for something between 6,000 PPE per hour to well over 9,000 PPE per hour to simply maintain the effect it has running...
This DOES give us a ball park though.
That ballpark is "Spells that tamper with the forces of gods and Old Ones and their ilk should cost many tens of thousands at a minimum to cast"


Can you please give me the name of the book that the Black Obelisk is found in with pg. number please?

Thanks.

Dragon Mage.

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Spoilers for that book follow
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Spoiler:
Its the 'big bad' that is the source of the Zombie Plague (or at least one of them)
The Obelisk stuff starts on page 110
The factory floor starts on page 122
The Batteries and Amplifiers are found in The Power Station page 124-125
Marcel's power #1 is that via his link he may divert 6,000 PPE per hour from the regular operations to his spell casting
This together paints a picture of needing tens of thousands (or more) of PPE per hour to run the 'factory' and maintain the other 'systems'
The rules are not a bludgeon with which to hammer a character into a game. They are a guide to how a group of friends can get together to weave a collective story that entertains everyone involved. We forget that at our peril.

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Re: Stats for Circle of Absolute Elemental Power 2nd ed?

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:angel: Thanks! :angel:
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Re: Stats for Circle of Absolute Elemental Power 2nd ed?

Unread post by Reagren Wright »

A more important question would be how do you sacrifice 4 minor elementals? I mean
do you destroy their physcial body once they manifest, then destorys the elemental
fragment? Or is it just destroy the physical body. And if you do destroy the phsyical
body the things almost immediately return to the elemental plane. Trying to destory
the elemental fragment is next to impossible and the one sure fire way which is ground
them causes a massive explosion that will kill you in the process. Mind you back in the
day sacrifices four minor elementals back in 1st edition was partially doable, but now in
2nd edition very difficult.
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Re: Stats for Circle of Absolute Elemental Power 2nd ed?

Unread post by eliakon »

Reagren Wright wrote:A more important question would be how do you sacrifice 4 minor elementals? I mean
do you destroy their physcial body once they manifest, then destorys the elemental
fragment? Or is it just destroy the physical body. And if you do destroy the phsyical
body the things almost immediately return to the elemental plane. Trying to destory
the elemental fragment is next to impossible and the one sure fire way which is ground
them causes a massive explosion that will kill you in the process. Mind you back in the
day sacrifices four minor elementals back in 1st edition was partially doable, but now in
2nd edition very difficult.

That's not a bug, that's a feature
It just makes the circle that much harder to pull off :lol:
And frankly... I don't have the slightest problem with that.
My answer to a player would be "that is a very good question. Do you know the answer? No? Hmmmm well then how do you propose to figure it out?"
The rules are not a bludgeon with which to hammer a character into a game. They are a guide to how a group of friends can get together to weave a collective story that entertains everyone involved. We forget that at our peril.

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Re: Stats for Circle of Absolute Elemental Power 2nd ed?

Unread post by Dragon Mage »

If you want to sacrifice the 4 major elementals (you need major elementals not minor) you keep them in energy form when they are summoned. Then you impale them with either iron or steel through there energy bodies, and touch the ground. This in turn would discharge 4d6x100 points of electrical damage in a 60 foot radius. There are a few ways to deal with the discharge I can think of off the top of my head; 1. Use TK to impale the major elementals with iron/steel rods/swords from outside the 60 foot discharge radius. It would be a good idea to make the circle larger say 100 foot radius. 2. Or, create a single ward phrase of 16 protection from energy wards with area effect wards to protect the person(s) doing the impaling (damage from the discharge would be reduced to 0.03662109375 points on a maximum discharge doing 2,400 points of damage). Also writing the true names down on the wards and circle, of anyone helping to create the circle would be a nice thing to do as well. :)

Peace,
Dragon Mage.
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