Fist fights 1ed

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Dartsani
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Fist fights 1ed

Unread post by Dartsani »

Is there any rules for fistfights? Pretty deadly to swing swords between drunkards....
Mercenary gets kick in lvl9 in his hand to hand skill, is he able to kick with any efficiency before that?
What about fists?

I own all the 1 ed books, so if its not in these...is there any fanbased writing some www-page?
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Axelmania
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Re: Fist fights 1ed

Unread post by Axelmania »

I don't even recall punch damage being listed in 1e. One might rule that without weapons you cantnhurt anyone until your hth gave you a damaging technique.

Or rule things without damage as doing base 0 so that you could only do damage if you had something that gave a bonus like PS or HtH or a spell.
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Natasha
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Re: Fist fights 1ed

Unread post by Natasha »

We always said damage from punches was 1D4 + damage bonuses from P.S. and hand to hand; and no kicks unless specified.

We tinkered with things like 0 + damage bonuses but ultimately concluded if a blackjack can do 1D4, then so can a fist.
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kiralon
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Re: Fist fights 1ed

Unread post by kiralon »

Make new skill called wp unarmed, base it off blunt
Punches do
1 dam + ps untrained
1d3 dam + ps + hth skill bonus - beginner (lvl 1 -3)
1d4 dam + ps + hth skill bonus - moderate skill level (lvl 4-8)
1d6 dam + ps + hth skill bonus - expert level (lvl 9+)

Kickes do
1d4 dam + ps untrained
1d6 dam + ps + hth skill bonus - beginner (lvl 1 -3)
1d8 dam + ps + hth skill bonus - moderate skill level (lvl 4-8)
1d10 dam + ps + hth skill bonus - expert level (lvl 9+)
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Natasha
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Re: Fist fights 1ed

Unread post by Natasha »

Instead of re-writing the rules, just let everybody punch.

The kick damage is way too high for First Edition, too.
Dartsani
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Re: Fist fights 1ed

Unread post by Dartsani »

Natasha wrote:We always said damage from punches was 1D4 + damage bonuses from P.S. and hand to hand; and no kicks unless specified.
We tinkered with things like 0 + damage bonuses but ultimately concluded if a blackjack can do 1D4, then so can a fist.

So Soldiers are not able to kick, ever? Sound pretty damn...well they don't have any IQ requirements so they might be "little bit" stupid...

Natasha wrote:Instead of re-writing the rules, just let everybody punch.
The kick damage is way too high for First Edition, too.

Frying pan makes 1d6 as well as kick, I think person who knows how to kick is ok with that dmg.
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Natasha
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Re: Fist fights 1ed

Unread post by Natasha »

Dartsani wrote:
Natasha wrote:We always said damage from punches was 1D4 + damage bonuses from P.S. and hand to hand; and no kicks unless specified.
We tinkered with things like 0 + damage bonuses but ultimately concluded if a blackjack can do 1D4, then so can a fist.

So Soldiers are not able to kick, ever? Sound pretty damn...well they don't have any IQ requirements so they might be "little bit" stupid...

Natasha wrote:Instead of re-writing the rules, just let everybody punch.
The kick damage is way too high for First Edition, too.

Frying pan makes 1d6 as well as kick, I think person who knows how to kick is ok with that dmg.

Soldiers not having kick attacks has never been a problem for us; unarmed combat being exceedingly rare in a game where most people are armed and/or armoured. Bar fights and the like don't require rolls and if it gets serious the daggers come out anyway. This seems to me to be a matter of playstyle and expectations. So if soldiers need to kick, it's quite quick and easy to pencil that in to their combat training. 1D8 and 1D10 are too large for kick damage as that's large sword territory.
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kiralon
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Re: Fist fights 1ed

Unread post by kiralon »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=49mT-e5mSC0
Has some very powerful kicks that i'm not sure what I'd prefer to get hit by.
and I never liked the fact that you don't get bonuses to unarmed strike and parry as you go up levels. Bar brawls can be fun.

and in my games if weapons come out in bar brawls most places will arrest you under charges of things like intent to kill and intent on causing grievous bodily harm rather than just a small fine and usually sleeping it off in a cell and then being released the next day.
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Reagren Wright
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Re: Fist fights 1ed

Unread post by Reagren Wright »

I'm still trying to figure out how Hand to Hand: Palladin (Martial Arts) a guy in a full
suit of plate armor (with helmet) is supposed to do a roundhouse kick, crescent kick,
snap kick, and Jump Kick?
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kiralon
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Re: Fist fights 1ed

Unread post by kiralon »

Well if a troll picked up a paladin by the shoulders and swung the paladin at somebody and connected with the feet that might be a roundhouse, and then the paladin does backflips when the troll throws him at a wall.
and the multiple types of hth styles was way cooler in first ed, so was not having wizards who got the same hth fighting training as a lot of fighters like they do in second ed (I have never had a second ed character played by pc's without hth expert being taken)
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Natasha
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Re: Fist fights 1ed

Unread post by Natasha »

Paladin hth became martial arts in Rifts if I recall. But even if a paladin is fully trained in those kicks, they are not always in full plate.

Nevertheless, I agree, the PF1E combat skills are way cooler than the 2E stuff. The druids were kinda screwed over, too. I do not play 2E if I have the choice.

kiralon wrote:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=49mT-e5mSC0
Has some very powerful kicks that i'm not sure what I'd prefer to get hit by.
and I never liked the fact that you don't get bonuses to unarmed strike and parry as you go up levels. Bar brawls can be fun.

and in my games if weapons come out in bar brawls most places will arrest you under charges of things like intent to kill and intent on causing grievous bodily harm rather than just a small fine and usually sleeping it off in a cell and then being released the next day.

Just apply the hand to hand bonuses to unarmed combat?

Like I said, a lot is playstyle and expectation. Recalling our games there are times and places when the daggers don't come out and arrangements to settle the score are made instead; as well, plenty of scenarios played out in areas where unless you're conspiring or acting against the crowned head then you're on your own. Not really advocating against unarmed combat; just saying it's almost never a thing for us but if you need it then I'd just scribble it in. That might not work for everybody and that's cool.
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kiralon
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Re: Fist fights 1ed

Unread post by kiralon »

The Hth bonuses mostly only go for pluses to parry, dodge and damage
Knight, paladin, longbowman and assassin get +2 strike around level 12 and rangers get +1 strike at level 2. Its the weapon proficiencies that give bonuses to hit.
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Natasha
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Re: Fist fights 1ed

Unread post by Natasha »

Yea, sounds like you need the unarmed W.P.
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kiralon
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Re: Fist fights 1ed

Unread post by kiralon »

also give a negative of -5/-10/-15 for striking and parrying against small/1h weapons/2h weapons when fighting unarmed vs an armed opponent
I allow for a character to stop their unarmed attack against an armed opponent when their opponent rolls to parry so they don't kick or punch a weapon, if they choose to ignore this they take weapon damage from their strike (normal armour rules apply of course, if the enemies parry roll is higher than AR it does damage to character rather then armour). This can be occasionally desirable if a character has supernatural strength or armour of ithan or is wearing good armour and is trying to disarm their opponent.
*edit: puny enemy also counts
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Axelmania
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Re: Fist fights 1ed

Unread post by Axelmania »

Maybe just assign 1 DMG or if you must have unpredictability, flip a coin (or evens/odds on any dice) as 1d2 for punch/kick damage. Given the lowness of weapons in PRPG this is appropriate.
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