Perception and vampire info

[Whiskeyjack]

I'm looking for source material, but can't remember where to find it. Any help is appreciated.

The first is perception. I know it exists, since I have it on my character sheets, but I can't find the rules for it.

The other is about vampires. I know there is a rifter with info on the old style vampires (no VI), I think in the 40's, but I can't remember which one.

[drewkitty ~..~]

Perception was introduced in to PB canon with the Nightspawn/nightbane main book and was included in rifts with RUE.

PF does not yet have rules for governing Perception rolls. You should use the NS/NB rules due to the classes do not have class perception bonuses like those in RUE.

Basically chars have to roll over the perception threshold (4, 10, 18, 22 // set by the GM) just like making a saving throw. With the attribute bonus derived from the IQ score using the ME Psi bonus table. There are some level up bonuses for every char.

(The 1st time I saw anything concerning Perception was in an old Protoculture Addicts and it was introduced as a character Attribute.)

[Glistam]

Rifter #49 has the vampires you seek.

[Whiskeyjack]

Thanks guys. I'll dig out the nightspawn books and see about ordering Ritter 49.

[zyanitevp]

Also, vampires in general are in the Western Empire book.

[Whiskeyjack]

I'm looking for the vamps without an intelligence attached to them. While I love that concept and it works awesome in Rifts, it just doesn't feel right for Palladium Fantasy.

[Prysus]

I'm looking for the vamps without an intelligence attached to them. While I love that concept and it works awesome in Rifts, it just doesn't feel right for Palladium Fantasy.

Greetings and Salutations. Depends on what you mean by "intelligence attached to them."

1: If you mean "Alien Intelligence, then Palladium Fantasy (Western Empire) definitely provides more options. Western Empire, page 207 (top second column) lets us know that Vlad-Tego, Tolmet the Cruel, unnamed forgotten gods, and the Old Ones can all create vampires. In at least some of those cases, it's not to create an army but just create pain and suffering.

2: If you meant "intelligence" as any form of intelligence (mindless, random, etc.) whatsoever, that's also included. Western Empire, page 207 (last paragraph of Lords of the Undead, still second column) tells us about "random appearances of vampires without any apparent originating source." While there are theories, they are not proven. What the book tells us that it's random and without an apparent source (everything else is speculation, an attempt to give reason to what would be otherwise chaos).

3: If you mean something else all together, you'd need to be more specific.

Now, these vampires still use the exact same stats, but they do provide different origins. For an additional option, there's always the Necromancer ritual: Return from the Grave. I believe this was originally a spell introduced in Rifts, but found its way into PF in Bizantium and the Northern Islands (page 168). This allows a Necromancer to turn himself into the equivalent of a Master Vampire.

Now if in the end you prefer the Rifter #49 option, that's fine. However, I believe in making informed decisions, so I provided some additional options to address the concern quoted above. Thank you for your time and patience, please have a nice day. Farewell and safe journeys.

[drewkitty ~..~]

I'm looking for the vamps without an intelligence attached to them. While I love that concept and it works awesome in Rifts, it just doesn't feel right for Palladium Fantasy.

PF vampires are detailed in the Western Empire book.

The way the PF vamps are set up is closer to the concept of vampires in the western world. And the way that PF is more cut off from the rest of the megaverse also means that Vampire AIs are also limited access to that world. Which also means the VAIs are less interested to the world.

There is also that it is the (a?) world that the old ones were fought on and still has life on it.
There are sleeping OO on the world, and is the focus of constant attention for some deities who are checking on the world to make sure that the OO don't wake up.
Then there is that the OOs there might wake up and might take them as a light snack.

So there are many reasons for there not to be any VAIs associated with the vampires of the PF world.

[eliakon]

I'm looking for the vamps without an intelligence attached to them. While I love that concept and it works awesome in Rifts, it just doesn't feel right for Palladium Fantasy.

Just because you like rifts does not mean it is better or 'the right way'.

The way the PF vamps are set up is closer to the concept of vampires in the western world. And the way that PF is more cut off from the rest of the megaverse also means that Vampire AIs are also limited access to that world. Which also means the VAIs are less interested to the world.

There is also that it is the (a?) world that the old ones were fought on and still has life on it.
There are sleeping OO on the world, and is the focus of constant attention for some deities who are checking on the world to make sure that the OO don't wake up.
Then there is that the OOs there might wake up and might take them as a light snack.

So there are many reasons for there not to be any VAIs associated with the vampires of the PF world.

Which is probably why he is looking for versions of Vampires that don't have VIs attached.
Because he thinks that "it just doesn't feel right for Palladium Fantasy"

[Hendrik]

Thanks guys. I'll dig out the nightspawn books and see about ordering Ritter 49.

Re Perception, here are some page references:

As our fabulous drewkitty said, it was introduced with Nightspawn (got renamed into NIGHTBANE, you will find the rule on page 67) and the rule sets around that time. You will find perception rules also in BEYOND THE SUPERNATURAL (page 170), R:UE (page 367 s.), and DEAD REIGN (page 178 s.). I did not find it in SPLICERS, which, if so, is an unintentional omission, methinks.

With respect to Vampires without the Vampire Intelligence setup:

I think you can use the vampires as they are - converting from MDC, of course - by just scratching out any VI references, which is basically the pretext of the very good RIFTER 49 article (pp. 55 ss.).

Personally, I really like the idea of Wild Vampires: no sparkle risk

[Whiskeyjack]

I loved the feel of the vampires in the Tombs of Gersidi, and that's what I'll be going for in my game. I recall a conversation last year about how the vamps in rifter 49 were really cool and similar to them.
I want them to not be controlled by other beings, but completely free willed, able to go where they want, and make their own way. Western Empire is the next book I'm rereading. Should be on it by tomorrow, and will start with the vampires.

[drewkitty ~..~]

snip...

I think you can use the vampires as they are - converting from MDC, of course - by just scratching
…snip

What converting? Vamps have always been HP creatures in all the PB books, even in rifts.

Or was there something stupid done in the VKr book?

[Library Ogre]

The way I view PF Vampires is that all the long-term vampires have the same vampire intelligence behind them... Vald Tegor. Any other vampires (from other VIs) he hunts down as part of his "Protector from Vampires" schtick. "Oh, no, there's some vampires in the town over! The Priest of Vald Tegor will save us!" Go in, kill vampires, protect his turf. Every so often, he does this with upstart vamps of his own creation, too, just to remind people that he's their friend.

[Hendrik]

snip...

I think you can use the vampires as they are - converting from MDC, of course - by just scratching
…snip

What converting? Vamps have always been HP creatures in all the PB books, even in rifts.

Or was there something stupid done in the VKr book?

No, nothing stupid

Yes, they are HP creatures. I meant the damage dealing capacity.

I have memorized the Rifts Vampires as MDC damage dealing creatures, which they are even though it says, somewhat lopsidedly, that they will deal SDC/HP unless fighting against an MDC opponent when "they will really let loose and cause MDC". My apologies, I should have been clearer. It is really easy to "convert" as not much of that is actually necessary but for ignoring the "letting loose"-capability.

The way I view PF Vampires is that all the long-term vampires have the same vampire intelligence behind them... Vald Tegor. Any other vampires (from other VIs) he hunts down as part of his "Protector from Vampires" schtick. "Oh, no, there's some vampires in the town over! The Priest of Vald Tegor will save us!" Go in, kill vampires, protect his turf. Every so often, he does this with upstart vamps of his own creation, too, just to remind people that he's their friend.

I love that idea, Mark!

[drewkitty ~..~]

Vamps do Mega-Damage to most stuff and SD to other vamps and Were-people in rifts.

What is this MDC damage? why are you saying extra stuff to mean MD?

Saying SDC damage sounds stupid to me when compared to the simple MD of Mega Damage. Which is the why behind me shortening it down to SD to match the MD of MD/MDC so it is SD/SDC. nice simple you know which the other is talking about. SD & MD are Damage and SDC & MDC are armor&structure.

Thus a MDC sword is one 'made' out of MDC materials, and MD swords are ones that 'do' MD.

Yes, this does mean that there are MDC weapons that only do SD.

[Hendrik]

I loved the feel of the vampires in the Tombs of Gersidi, and that's what I'll be going for in my game. I recall a conversation last year about how the vamps in rifter 49 were really cool and similar to them.
I want them to not be controlled by other beings, but completely free willed, able to go where they want, and make their own way. Western Empire is the next book I'm rereading. Should be on it by tomorrow, and will start with the vampires.

In fact the Vampires from Nightbane will also not require much adaption as they are HP/SDC creatures and cause no MD. If only the vampire intelligence setup is something you don't like, just ignore it.

... What is this MDC damage? why are you saying extra stuff to mean MD? ...

You make a fair point re nomenclature. My reason is simple, I have just gotten used to say SDC damage and hence also say MDC damage. It does not bother me, but you are right on the correct use of the acronyms (even though I am sure that the books often refer to "SDC damage").

Vamps do Mega-Damage to most stuff and SD to other vamps and Were-people in rifts.

I will come back to this. It is how the Vamps in Vampire Kingdoms were written up before the Revised Edition. IIRC, the write up there has changed (as I have paraphrased above), but I may be wrong and mix up books in my head.

[eliakon]

Vamps do Mega-Damage to most stuff and SD to other vamps and Were-people in rifts.

What is this MDC damage? why are you saying extra stuff to mean MD?[

Saying SDC damage sounds stupid to me when compared to the simple MD of Mega Damage. Which is the why behind me shortening it down to SD to match the MD of MD/MDC so it is SD/SDC. nice simple you know which the other is talking about. SD & MD are Damage and SDC & MDC are armor&structure.

Thus a MDC sword is one 'made' out of MDC materials, and MD swords are ones that 'do' MD.

Yes, this does mean that there are MDC weapons that only do SD.

Because 99% of the people on this board use the term MDC damage and everyone knows what it is.
Since correcting it is just rude and pedantic and because it makes all sorts of things easier (like the _DC or S/MDC that some people use for things) no one bothers to "correct people"
If this were an edited submission for writing or a peer reviewed paper for publication sure...
...but to do that on a casual forum enters the realms of being a <deleted due to forum rules>

[drewkitty ~..~]

Hendric

Sorry for mouthing off about a "Button" issue of mine. Most of my irritation is directed at the failure of editor to correct the misuse incorrect usage in the books before they were published. *shrugs* Not you specifically.

[Hendrik]

Sorry for mouthing off about a "Button" issue of mine. Most of my irritation is directed at the failure of editor to correct the misuse incorrect usage in the books before they were published. *shrugs* Not you specifically.

Much appreciated, drewkitty. No worries! I realized I had inadvertently hit a button of yours the wrong way and you reacted "on the button" and not to me.

[Whiskeyjack]

I just reread the vampire info in WE. I actually like how they are written up more than I thought I would. I especially liked the ability of people who are consumed by anger/evil/revenge to be able to become vampires from the taint of the old ones.
I'm currently making a kingdom in the Disputed Lands that has been ruled by a vampire lord for the past 1900 years. I'll post the write up when it's finished.
The only major thing I'll be changing on the vamps is the damage from running water (I can't stand that one, but they still won't be able to cross it) and the metamorphosis abilities of the lesser vampires. Wilds will only be able to turn into wolves, Secondary either wolves and bats, or wolves and mist. I haven't decided yet.

[Library Ogre]

The only major thing I'll be changing on the vamps is the damage from running water (I can't stand that one, but they still won't be able to cross it) and the metamorphosis abilities of the lesser vampires. Wilds will only be able to turn into wolves, Secondary either wolves and bats, or wolves and mist. I haven't decided yet.

What if it was variable? Say, Wilds can turn into wolves or bats, and each wild can only turn into one thing. Secondaries can turn into wolves or bats or mist, pick two. And master vampires can turn into all three?

You might go further with this, as well. Wild vampires might be unaffected by non-holy water... they are beasts, and barely vampires. Secondary vampires can't cross it. Master Vampires can't touch running water.

[Whiskeyjack]

Those are some good ideas Mark. I'll mull them over.

[zyanitevp]

I'm looking for the vamps without an intelligence attached to them. While I love that concept and it works awesome in Rifts, it just doesn't feel right for Palladium Fantasy.

Greetings and Salutations. Depends on what you mean by "intelligence attached to them."

1: If you mean "Alien Intelligence, then Palladium Fantasy (Western Empire) definitely provides more options. Western Empire, page 207 (top second column) lets us know that Vlad-Tego, Tolmet the Cruel, unnamed forgotten gods, and the Old Ones can all create vampires. In at least some of those cases, it's not to create an army but just create pain and suffering.

2: If you meant "intelligence" as any form of intelligence (mindless, random, etc.) whatsoever, that's also included. Western Empire, page 207 (last paragraph of Lords of the Undead, still second column) tells us about "random appearances of vampires without any apparent originating source." While there are theories, they are not proven. What the book tells us that it's random and without an apparent source (everything else is speculation, an attempt to give reason to what would be otherwise chaos).

3: If you mean something else all together, you'd need to be more specific.

Now, these vampires still use the exact same stats, but they do provide different origins. For an additional option, there's always the Necromancer ritual: Return from the Grave. I believe this was originally a spell introduced in Rifts, but found its way into PF in Bizantium and the Northern Islands (page 168). This allows a Necromancer to turn himself into the equivalent of a Master Vampire.

Now if in the end you prefer the Rifter #49 option, that's fine. However, I believe in making informed decisions, so I provided some additional options to address the concern quoted above. Thank you for your time and patience, please have a nice day. Farewell and safe journeys.

As always Prysus your references are dead on. I use Vald-Tegor as their god,and let the master vampires run their areas freely