The Languages of Man

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GMDijarian
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The Languages of Man

Unread post by GMDijarian »

Long time no post...


Im beginning a new game with a different system but that will be set in the Palladium Fantasy world, as we are finishing a long overdue campaign. This got me thinking about the different Mannish Cultures present in the game world, and the languages that they speak. So I decided to write this as a discussion on language and culture that I have assumed into the setting. Let me know what you have played/think. All of this is certainly opinion and up for discussion, this is just my take on it.

Western Human: The Empire of the West in Palladium has always reminded me to some degree of the early Ottoman Empire. This has probably, mostly been influenced by the artwork in the book but if we break it down a bit, I think there's other evidence to support this. The Ottoman Empire was always a 'melting pot' of cultures and beliefs where Muslims, Jews, and Christians lived together. It was a place of art and science, and was an intercontinental empire with heavy trading powers in the mediterranean. All of these things coincide with the Western Empire as well. As one of the oldest places of civilization and with every mix of religion abounding. Alchemists, scientific scholars, etc. - For this reason Im suspecting that Western Human - the language of the West is probably a Turkish/Arabic/Persian (Farsi) type of language.

Southern Human: The lands of the Yin-Sloth Jungles and Land of the South Winds are very mysterious places in the Palladium world. Barely explored but highly populated. We have some to go on with Yin-Sloth but hardly anything to reference for Land of the South Winds. For some reason I believe I had heard the Land of the South winds had a sort of oriental flare to it, but Im not sure. From the descriptions that we do have in the canon -once again heavily influenced by the art and O.C.C.'s of the book, I've always imagined the lands of Yin-Sloth and to a lesser degree Land of the South Winds (because they share a single language), to be very Austronesian and or Malayo-Polinesian. Like the indigenous peoples of Malaysia, Indonesian, and the Philippines.

Northern Human: Its said in the book that Northern is the least spoken of the groups of the Mannish Languages, and basically only lists Bizantium as speaking the language. I then would pose the question as to what the Mannish peoples of the Wolfen Empire speak? (as its also written that Wolfen is very difficult to speak as it requires sounds that Man cannot or has a hard time producing) The Kingdom of Havea is actually the particular place that Im referring to. Being so far north and for nearly ever cut off from the original colonists to the east, I have a hard time believing they would speak Eastern. But then again they have no real connection to Bizantium either. Thinking though that the original peoples probably traveled to the islands from the Northern Wilderness I would suspect that they both speak a form of Northern, though probably different dialects. Or maybe something akin to Spanish vs Catalan. I think that would do.

A little more back on point I've always seen the culture (probably only through the AotHS book as I don't have Bizantium) as very Briton. An island nation in the north sea segregated from the mainland, but with stern noble houses, and an incredible power at sea. So I've kind of always seen Bizantium as England - War of the Roses time period.

and that leaves...
Eastern Human: This one is a tricky one. By the eastern territories book, the eastern Mannish population seem very English to me as well, as their culture doesn't seem to be very different from one another. Whereas Bizantium would be the upper nobility of medieval english culture, I've always seen the East as more of the serf population of english culture. However this is certainly and clearly not correct. - or maybe more urban vs rural. They both are heavily mercantile and are both sea powers however, yet they speak a different language? This is kind of what I needed help on.

Where did the 'new settlers' in the east originally settle from? Is it that Eastern as a language predominantly encompasses Timiro's main language (although the native languages spoken by the npc's in the Timiro book speak about a 50/50 mix of Southern and Eastern, though the Core Rules say that Timiro is an Eastern speaking language.)



So then guys and gals this is what I need help on. Can you help me finish? Tell me more about the peoples of the east, and about their language.
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Re: The Languages of Man

Unread post by Glistam »

I would actually associate Byzantium and the Northern Human language spoken by Havea and the Kiridian Barbarians as the same language the Vikings spoke. This would allow Eastern to be the equivalent to English, or at least an older form of it.
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Re: The Languages of Man

Unread post by GMDijarian »

That certainly makes sense to me, but kind of what I'm wrestling with is that the whole of the east is clumped into one language, but if you look at the history of the Territories, they are not one people. In the south, they're mostly Eastern (Timiro), such the language makes sense, but most in the river region and in Llorn hale from the Western Empire.

Language skills for the NPC's are not listed. :-(
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Re: The Languages of Man

Unread post by kiralon »

I have timiro and LotSW speak southern, but 2 different dialects and the Yin Sloth mostly speak gobbo (if they speak).

I also made tradespeak, a mix of most languages that the merchants use for trading. Tradespeak is spoken by most of anyone who deals with people who travel, but it is thought of as a lower class language.
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Re: The Languages of Man

Unread post by Veknironth »

Well, in terms of the languages spoken they are written right there in the books. However, since you're making your own game and borrowing the setting, there's no reason why you can't toss out the author's original text and decide there are more or fewer languages.

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Re: The Languages of Man

Unread post by GMDijarian »

I could yes. And I could completely re-write everything, but thats not my intent here. My intent is to play the setting. And language is part of the setting. Yes you're very correct, and it says the languages in the book. Norther, Souther, Eastern, Western.

But my question though is something altogether different. I've had some time to think over it now, and have had some time to do a little more research. So far my confusion comes from the Eastern Human language skill. It doesn't seem accurate to me.

Page 50 is the PFRPG book advises that Eastern is spoken in the Eastern Territories and I agree, yes it is. But when you take the time to think about it. It doesn't make sense for the peoples of the Territory to share one language.

The peoples of the Great River valley, north to the Bruu-ga-Belimar Mountains - the area known as the Disputed Lands, are mostly all immigrants. And from the clues given in the timeline of the Eastern Territories book it would seem as if most of those immigrants came from the West and from Lopan.

Timiro is one of the oldest Kingdoms of man in the known world, maybe even second to the Western Empire, so it is almost more than assumable that Eastern is their language. They are the people and the culture that is the Eastern language. Seeing that language move east from Timiro to places like Pennington, Wynglades, and etc makes sense. Its even supported in the book. What doesn't make sense to me though is that the language, but not the people would make it so far north. If the disputed lands were filled with Western, and Lopanian immigrants, why are they speaking the language of Timiro?

I looked through the eastern book, and NPC's aren't listed with language skills, but seeing they are from the west I cannot believe they have settled just within the inland sea to speak the language of a kingdom some six-hundred miles to the south.
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Re: The Languages of Man

Unread post by Veknironth »

Well, yes that makes sense. The Eastern Territories is a large area that is being populated by people from different locations. They're going to have different languages. Even people speaking he same root language would be having dialects and accents. Have a blast making up colloquialisms and such!

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Re: The Languages of Man

Unread post by Orc65 »

Use dialects, give your different subregions specific dialects with a penalty (-15% as an example). this penalty reflects the degree of difference between the main language and the dialect and the difficulty of communication.
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Re: The Languages of Man

Unread post by Soldier of Od »

I find it kind of weird that a lot of people seem to want to equate the languages of Palladium with those of Earth. They're not the same. But at the same time I can see why - Palladium Fantasy (like most fantasy fiction) borrows heavily from real world culture and history. So this is my opinion on this:

Western: I agree with your take on this. The link with the Ottoman Empire fell into place for me when they introduced the Empire's crack soldiers as 'Janissaries'. So yeah, Turkish, Arabic or similar.

Northern: similar to you guys, but as the barbarians speak the same language as the Byzantines, I think of it not as English, but as a Celtic language (or ancient Briton). The inhabitants of Havea and other northern communities would speak a related Celtic dialect. Remember the English language isreally just a German dialect that we speak now only because they successfully invaded us. So although, like you, I do often think of Byzantium as medieval England, the language is not necessarily English.

Southern: Kevin is often quoted as saying the Land of the South Winds is supposed to be more like the Indian subcontinent than the far east or anywhere else, so I would use one of the languages there, probably Hindi, because it's kind of the 'main one'.

Eastern: yeah, many of the settlers of the east were from the west, so really the main language could well be western (or at least a mix), but the first settlers came from Timiro (settling mainly in the southeast in the oldest areas), so all easterners use their language as the lingua franca. Kind of like most Americans use or at least speak English - the language of the first thirteen sates at independence - even though subsequent American immigrants come from many different countries. I bet there are lots of easterners that speak western or northern (the language of the 'old country'), but use eastern as their everyday language so that easterners from all backgrounds and regions are able to communicate. As Timiro for me is your classic medieval fantasy country with knights and castles and such, I would pick a language that fits that, so from western Europe, but not English, because of the connection with Byzantium. Say... French? Works for me.
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Re: The Languages of Man

Unread post by Saitou Hajime »

Soldier of Od wrote:Northern: similar to you guys, but as the barbarians speak the same language as the Byzantines, I think of it not as English, but as a Celtic language (or ancient Briton). The inhabitants of Havea and other northern communities would speak a related Celtic dialect. Remember the English language isreally just a German dialect that we speak now only because they successfully invaded us. So although, like you, I do often think of Byzantium as medieval England, the language is not necessarily English.


Officially English is a West Germanic language, however even in it middle form was a hybred language borrowing heavily from French, and words Gallic, Norse, Welsh and Latin. to be honest it make a good Eastern language because of it, thus maybe making Northern German.
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Re: The Languages of Man

Unread post by Library Ogre »

Linking Byzantium with England would also follow with its Navy. If I were to really play with it, I'd be tempted to make Northern a Germanic-Scandinavian language, with dialects that range across Old Norse and Old English... the Byzantines might speak Old English, which is close enough to Old Norse that your grammar is bad but your meaning is mostly understood.
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