Palladin Death Blow Q

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Braden Campbell
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Palladin Death Blow Q

Unread post by Braden Campbell »

My daughter wants to draft a Palladin, but their 3rd special ability is a Death Blow that seems to lack several clarifiers.

Firstly, how often can said Death blow be used?

Secondly, it's described as being a PPE-fueled power... but an exact cost is never given.

Has this been errata-ed somewhere?
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Prysus
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Re: Palladin Death Blow Q

Unread post by Prysus »

Braden Campbell wrote:My daughter wants to draft a Palladin, but their 3rd special ability is a Death Blow that seems to lack several clarifiers.

Firstly, how often can said Death blow be used?

Secondly, it's described as being a PPE-fueled power... but an exact cost is never given.

Has this been errata-ed somewhere?

Greetings and Salutations. I'll answer the best I can.

1: It can be used as often as you have P.P.E. and, probably, not while you're in the middle of using it. So, in theory, since it counts as two actions you can perform the Demon Death Blow as often as every other action (if P.P.E. remains).

2: P.P.E. is listed in the final line under the "Note" section. If your book doesn't have this, then my 3rd Printing tells me 3D6 P.P.E. (so the cost will be randomly determined). I'll also add this is an annoyance of many as it's not a static number. This also means the question of what happens if you have (for example) 10 P.P.E., but then you roll a 12 for the cost. Does it just not work? Does it use the last of your P.P.E. and work one last time? Other? For this reason, some people house rule a fixed P.P.E. value that they feel appropriate (9 or 10 would be Palladium average, while 10 or 11 would be the mathematical average).

3: Another factor to consider (some like this idea, some do not) is including the "Death Blow" rules found on page 44-45 of the PF2 main book. What they list "against Supernatural Beings and Creatures of Magic" is mostly the same as the Palladin Demon Death Blow, except also does double damage. The choice would ultimately be up to the G.M. to decide if it's applicable or not.

4: What happens if you miss your roll to strike? The rules don't specifically address this, but I'd say that (as closest to the rules as I can get) is that you lost your chance. However, some will let the weapon remain charged (for lack of a better term) until it connects. With the high (and random) P.P.E. cost, this isn't necessarily a bad rule.

Anyways, hope that helps. Farewell and safe journeys for now.
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Braden Campbell
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Re: Palladin Death Blow Q

Unread post by Braden Campbell »

Prysus wrote:
2: P.P.E. is listed in the final line under the "Note" section. If your book doesn't have this, then my 3rd Printing tells me 3D6 P.P.E. (so the cost will be randomly determined). I'll also add this is an annoyance of many as it's not a static number. This also means the question of what happens if you have (for example) 10 P.P.E., but then you roll a 12 for the cost. Does it just not work? Does it use the last of your P.P.E. and work one last time? Other? For this reason, some people house rule a fixed P.P.E. value that they feel appropriate (9 or 10 would be Palladium average, while 10 or 11 would be the mathematical average).



Ah, thanks, My 1st edition printing has no value listed.

Yeah... that random factor does kind of suck, especially seeing as how a human Palladin will only have a base of 4D6 PPE (2D6 for being human, and +2D6 for their OCC).
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Braden wrote:Thundercloud Galaxy has a flock of ducks in it that can slag a Glitterboy in one melee.

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Re: Palladin Death Blow Q

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I allow it to be used once per day per level of the paladin, and only once per round in combat.
Automatically penetrates supernatural evil Natural AR
If the creature is wearing non-magical armour roll for damage as normal (not doubled) and both the creature and the armour take the damage.
Also gives the Palladin a HF of 10+his level vs supernatural evil when he uses it (Only works on lesser demons and devils and the like).
or
Use one of the uses per day to turn dead
%8 chance per level
If you succeed you turn 1d6hp per level of undead for 3 rounds per level. This doesn't stop them from coming at you per se, but reduces their maximum hp by the number rolled and isn't cumulative amongst paladins, only the strongest works. This will often make the lesser ones run as it does hurt. If their hp is reduced to below 0 by this they crumble to dust (corporeal) or disappear in sparkly light (non-corporeal)
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Re: Palladin Death Blow Q

Unread post by ShadowLogan »

Brandon Campbell wrote:Firstly, how often can said Death blow be used?

PPE permiting as often as every other action as Prysus said.

Brandon Campbell wrote:Secondly, it's described as being a PPE-fueled power... but an exact cost is never given.

As Prysus said (I have a 5th printing). Interestingly the Palladin isn't the only one with a variable PPE cost for a melee attack... The Warrior Monk (PF2E pg71-3) also has a variable PPE cost for their spirit strike (similar to the demon deathblow) but cheaper at 2d6.

Prysus wrote:I'll also add this is an annoyance of many as it's not a static number. This also means the question of what happens if you have (for example) 10 P.P.E., but then you roll a 12 for the cost. Does it just not work? Does it use the last of your P.P.E. and work one last time? Other? For this reason, some people house rule a fixed P.P.E. value that they feel appropriate (9 or 10 would be Palladium average, while 10 or 11 would be the mathematical average).

Considering this "can be considered a magical attack" (per text pg89 at end of the note for the ability), I would think that would mean that if you don't have the PPE you can't do it period (I wouldn't have the PPE spent though if you don't have enough, which IINM is how magic handles the issue). That could mean that in that instance there is something about limitation #1 that prevents it from being used (fear, anger, regret, etc) if looking for an in-game explanation.

Theoretically the PPE cost by roll can come out to available PPE pool for any (mainbook) race/palladin combo, so I don't see a need to allow the use of all the PPE for a "hail marry" strike since mages can't do the same thing (I can see fudging maybe 1 or 2 points though) with their PPE use.

Prysus wrote:4: What happens if you miss your roll to strike? The rules don't specifically address this, but I'd say that (as closest to the rules as I can get) is that you lost your chance. However, some will let the weapon remain charged (for lack of a better term) until it connects. With the high (and random) P.P.E. cost, this isn't necessarily a bad rule.

The Palladin's Demon Death Blow is a magical attack, that would indicate it works just like other offensive spells that are "instant" duration, even if they take multiple actions to cast. Basically I would treat the PDDB as a specialized "spell" (or ritual) the Palladin is casting.
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Axelmania
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Re: Palladin Death Blow Q

Unread post by Axelmania »

Is it possible that you roll the 3D6 once (like an attribute) and then just use that PPE cost the whole career? So you have some who can use it a bunch since it's always 3 and some who can't because it's always 18?
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Re: Palladin Death Blow Q

Unread post by Marcethus »

Axelmania wrote:Is it possible that you roll the 3D6 once (like an attribute) and then just use that PPE cost the whole career? So you have some who can use it a bunch since it's always 3 and some who can't because it's always 18?


Negative. It's rolled every time you use the attack. So even in the same combat its cost will vary.

I always was intrigued as to why the Palladin and the Monk Warrior were the only two classes in the game that have variable cost attacks like that.
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Axelmania
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Re: Palladin Death Blow Q

Unread post by Axelmania »

Pages 72 and 89 do not mention rolling every single time. This would seem left to GM unless there is errata or an NPC example to guide us.
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Re: Palladin Death Blow Q

Unread post by Marcethus »

I don't have my books handy I will have to look it up but I recall it being a given that you have to roll every time because it is a variable cost ability.

Granted a specific GM can house rule whatever they like for that particular game.
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