Priests and Pantheons Q

[Braden Campbell]

Can a priest represent a pantheon as a whole, or must they follow only one specific god within that pantheon?

[Jefffar]

I believe a priest can relate to the entire pantheon, to a god within a pantheon or to a god outside of its pantheon.

[drewkitty ~..~]

The text of the priest class does not say that there are any limitations other then having to choose the light of dark side of the PF world's pantheon(s). How this differers for other worlds/settings is up to that setting's canon texts.

However, as far as I know all the NPCs detailed out have been said to be the priest of this god or that goddess.
In most gaming texts will ask the player to choose their god of choice in char creation.(other then the ones where the game world only has one god.)

Even though the greeks and romans as cultures worshiped many gods, the priests typically served in a single god's temples..

[Braden Campbell]

Cool.

So, if help one of my young daughter's friends draft a "Priest of Dragonwright", I can use the Priest of Light OCC and just tell her that the prayers and powers come from/apply to all 4 of the Dragon Gods.

[drewkitty ~..~]

You might want to research the Dragonwright cult and how much powers humans get from worshiping the dragon gods.

[Razorwing]

I believe there is short fiction in the Dragonwright section of Dragons & Gods that involves a disciple of Dragonwright about to dedicate himself to a specific god of the Pantheon... only to be discouraged by a priest from giving his dedication without getting something out of it in return from that god (not that it has to be much).

The point is that while all the gods want priests dedicated to them specifically rather than just their pantheon in general, it is possible for priests to "bargain" with particular gods for such an honor. Considering that we are talking about beings that could presumably crush a priest if he asks for too much (outside the usual prayers... there is a great story of Priests of Ra praying for Gold only to be crushed by the thousands of coins Ra gives them), a small boon or such could be the result of such a dedication bargain between a priest and a particular god. This is especially true for the Church of Dragonwright where we are dealing with Dragon Gods.

[Nekira Sudacne]

Can a priest represent a pantheon as a whole, or must they follow only one specific god within that pantheon?

The text of the Priest OCC itself says specifically that the the priest OCC's may be dedicated to an individual god or an entire pantheon of gods. PF main book page 66 under "Allegiance to a God"

and yes, the Gods of Dragonwright in particular are known to give general blessings to those dedicated to the pantheon as a whole.

[The Oh So Amazing Nate]

Bargaining with dragons for boons as a dedicated priest. hmmmm. Could I be a priest dedicated to dragonwright and that my boone be that I am granted sovreignty of where dragons go to die? Thereby coming into full ownership/possession of any mortal/pyschal remains and physical objects both mundane and magict brought into my sovereign domain?
In return i promise the dragons protection, comfort and succor as they spend out their last days before joining the eternal
The dragons get a dedicated nurse/maid to comfort them and provide palliatirve care while they expire. I get a horde of dragon skin. bones, hornes, teeth, you name it. This isn't even counting all the gold they've ammased that is stuck to their big pudgy hides.

throw in some cross classing with necromancy.. and Boom i'm rich rich irch and ultimately powerful


thought?

[Library Ogre]

Cool.

So, if help one of my young daughter's friends draft a "Priest of Dragonwright", I can use the Priest of Light OCC and just tell her that the prayers and powers come from/apply to all 4 of the Dragon Gods.

Especially with the Dragonwright, as they'll take pretty much any form of worship they can get.

[kiralon]

Looks like someone will have to Quest for the Chalice of Dragonwright.
ToG ftw.

[Braden Campbell]

We will be playing in the Old Kingdom, as a matter of fact... so a search for Dragonwright artifacts is not out of the question.

[kiralon]

Looks like someone needs to join Madmanmikes Group at GenCon to do the Tombs of Gersidi run and find out the updated stats to the chalice of dragonwright

Madmanmike is running these.
The Smuggler's Pass - RPG1691751
The Secrets of Castle Instax - RPG1691752
The Tombs of Gersidi - RPG1691753

[Razorwing]

Bargaining with dragons for boons as a dedicated priest. hmmmm. Could I be a priest dedicated to dragonwright and that my boone be that I am granted sovreignty of where dragons go to die? Thereby coming into full ownership/possession of any mortal/pyschal remains and physical objects both mundane and magict brought into my sovereign domain?
In return i promise the dragons protection, comfort and succor as they spend out their last days before joining the eternal
The dragons get a dedicated nurse/maid to comfort them and provide palliatirve care while they expire. I get a horde of dragon skin. bones, hornes, teeth, you name it. This isn't even counting all the gold they've ammased that is stuck to their big pudgy hides.

throw in some cross classing with necromancy.. and Boom i'm rich rich irch and ultimately powerful


thought?

I think that you would have to prove that you are capable of granting such protections/comfort before they agree to such a request... and the moment something happens to the remains (such as you selling them)... they would likely strip you of all powers and position within the Church of Dragonwright. Gods can be notoriously fickle when it comes to priests exploiting them... and Dragon Gods would be even more fickle... and at least a couple would likely object to such an arrangement... especially when you get so much out of the deal.

[The Oh So Amazing Nate]

I think that you would have to prove that you are capable of granting such protections/comfort before they agree to such a request... and the moment something happens to the remains (such as you selling them)... they would likely strip you of all powers and position within the Church of Dragonwright. Gods can be notoriously fickle when it comes to priests exploiting them... and Dragon Gods would be even more fickle... and at least a couple would likely object to such an arrangement... especially when you get so much out of the deal.

Those are all very fine points. I wasn't sure if the Gods of Dragonwright were "actual" Gods or just the oldest and most powerful/ancient dragons. I figured they might have some concern for the dragons that were still alive, but didn't know how they might feel about their remains.

[drewkitty ~..~]

You might want to get the Mysteries of Magic 1, it has alternitive skill sets for priests.

And some talk about other megaversial priest classes it talked about here viewtopic.php?f=1&t=150659 .

[Razorwing]

I think that you would have to prove that you are capable of granting such protections/comfort before they agree to such a request... and the moment something happens to the remains (such as you selling them)... they would likely strip you of all powers and position within the Church of Dragonwright. Gods can be notoriously fickle when it comes to priests exploiting them... and Dragon Gods would be even more fickle... and at least a couple would likely object to such an arrangement... especially when you get so much out of the deal.

Those are all very fine points. I wasn't sure if the Gods of Dragonwright were "actual" Gods or just the oldest and most powerful/ancient dragons. I figured they might have some concern for the dragons that were still alive, but didn't know how they might feel about their remains.

In a sense, they are both actual Gods and incredibly ancient Dragons. In fact, when you compare their power level to other gods... they appear to be significantly more powerful than most (only Thoth seems to have more power... due to being a transformed Old One), even though Dragonwright seems to be in decline at the moment. This is mostly because these are not just Gods, but God-Dragons... and stand above other Gods as normal Dragons stand above normal men.

[Library Ogre]

Is the Dragonwright in decline, or just where we haven't looked? For instance, I could see them being very big in the Old Kingdom, they're semi-resurgent in the Wolfen Empire, etc.. They're never really seen as the biggest church in a region, but they're in every region, and their ecumenicalism means they're seldom a threat to the biggest church in the area.

[Razorwing]

According to Dragons and Gods, it is currently in a state of decline... remnants of the glory they once had. That said many of the priests are intent on reviving the faith to its former glory... though the methods they seem to be using are rather... fanatical. Most churches of Dragonwright at the moment are independent of any other... with little other than the gods they worship uniting them (and the rivalries between those gods keeping them apart).

Now, that said, Dragonwright is still a very widespread religion, but it isn't as powerful as it has been in ages past. The lack of unified churches hinders them from becoming a powerful force at the moment as rival Churches of Dragonwright are as likely to fight each other as they are to fight other religions. Yes, if a charismatic leader could unite Dragonwright's various churches under one organization once more, they could challenge even the dominance of the Pantheon of Light and Dark, but the chances of that happening at the moment seems remote (and could take years, if not decades or centuries, to accomplish).

[kiralon]

I thought there was 2 sides to the Church of Dragonwright, The actual church and the cult.

[drewkitty ~..~]

I thought there was 2 sides to the Church of Dragonwright, The actual church and the cult.

nope it is the Point of View of the writer. In the earlier writer, PFMB, the writer is from the human god churches PoV where Dragonwrite is a cult.
Then writer that calls it a church is in Dragonwright.

[Razorwing]

There seems to be two main branches... East and West... and many of the "churches" within each are more cult-like than an organized religion like the Pantheon of Light and Dark. Most of these separate churches differ on fine points of translation of the Book of Dragonwright... with many seeing the others as false or blood cults for something as simple as calling Kormath by Kormeth or Korameth (all because of translating the Elven version of the name to the various human tongues)... or even performing humanoid sacrifices. In fact, Dragonwright is willing to war on these "cults" for their blasphemy to the point where they refuse to acknowledge the others as members of Dragonwright (or at least the "True" Dragonwright). In a way this is very similar to the past of the various sects of Christianity and how many of its branches persecuted the others... and does give us an idea of how bloody this conflict can be. This inner strife is what is holding Dragonwright back from reclaiming its former glory.

[Library Ogre]

And, of course, there's always Koramath on the topic... "None shall be turned away!"

Worship dragons, and you're probably ok with the Dragonwright.

[Razorwing]

Well, it does appeal to a lot of people... including mages (Dragons are the ultimate creatures of magic and all that).

Still... that some are willing to go to war with each other over something as trivial as the pronunciation of one of their Gods' names seems a bit much. Over something like humanoid sacrifice is one thing... but a name that is hard to translate from one language to another is a little... fanatical.

I guess it is all a matter of being careful of which sect you join and who you talk to about the Gods you worship... saying the wrong name in the wrong place could get you killed and start a holy war within Dragonwright.

[Axelmania]

as far as I know all the NPCs detailed out have been said to be the priest of this god or that goddess.

Passing mentions sometimes are left vague enough that it might be multiple though, like Boniac and Aniel on page 55 and Olayhe on page 77 or Luthar on page 98 of Eastern Territory.

Interesting 86 uses "Priest of Belimar" for Zirnor and Chea instead of a more generic "Priest of Light", like with "Priestess of Light" used to refer to the head of a Rurga barracks on 77, or Durnan on 97.

A big problem is whenever we read 'priest of light' instead of 'priest of' (insert Isis/Rurga/etc) is we don't know if they're just collectively referring to priests of a single god, or a priest of multiple good gods.

Nimro 38 for Priest of the Scar says "any god as his personal god" but then "powers from that god and his pantheon". So maybe an individual god is a conduit or initial conduit but in their absence other allied gods can substitute?

Page 123 however mentions "a priestess of Isis and Thoth" which does imply you can dedicate to 2 simultaneously. But this is just in the context of discussing possibilities and is the report from a captain though, so it could just be a lie.

Further Adventures in the Northern Wilderness 22 has Crreela/Creela who runs a church for the Northern Gods, although based on her gender/race and alignment if I had to pick I'd say Epim or Wolvenar.

Baalgor Wastelands 98 mentions priests who worship "Aco and the Juggernaut" but I guess that could be split between those who worship Aco and those who worship Juggernaut. Page 119 has one who worships "Dyval, Lord of the Deevils" Whatever happened to that guy? Dragons and Gods seems to imply Sahtalus booted him out somewhere. Maybe he changed his corpse into a new world for his bride Hel to live in? Loving the Priests of Darkness dedicated to Juggernaut here. Guess that either means Darkness can serve Unprincipled or Kev still thought he was Miscreant and forgot he made him a good guy.

Unless I'm missing it somewhere, Western Empire 38 doesn't seem to specify a particular god that Lamriel worships, even though he's detailed pretty extensively. Page 88 mentions a guy who seems to be dedicated to "his gods" Aco and the Juggernaut, none singled out. 103 and 104 has an interesting case with the Kazes with no singled out god for Daera and Vorette, and a mention that the priestess is worshipped herself... reminds me of Aco being a Priest of Light. Page 123 mentions levels of individual NPCs and in parenthesis, rather than singling out a god, mentions a pantheon they're dedicated to instead. Ashassa to Ra's pantheon, Z'kinn to Aco+Jugg, Valean to Rurga's pantheon. Page 216 notable mentions under holy water "a priest whose god(s)" indicating allowable plurality.