1st Edition Priests / Shamans : powers from Vampire?

[Axelmania]

I was thinking of designing a Troglodyte Shaman (this OCC is no longer available to them in second edition) which functions mostly like a Priest. It mentions they worship "elemental deities" so I was wondering what good options for shamanic powers would be.

The "four great elemental lords" mentioned on page 155 (under Deistic) and 158 (under Elementalism/Warlocks) of the Revised Edition (1980s) although I'm not sure what their stats are. I assume they'd be at least as strong as a major elemental which would mean they'd have all the warlock spells. I'm not sure if Priests/Shamans can get warlock spells though since it only talks about wizard spells.

I then noticed something interesting though. Page 154 under Devils says that both greater devils and devil lords can both endow the full range of clerical abilities. 155 says the same about greater demons.

I think in 2nd edition that only Deevil Lords and Demon Lords can endow clerical abilities to Priests like gods can, but that mere "Greater" ones can do this in 1st edition is pretty interesting.

Is it possible that Trog Shamen could possibly worship and derive their powers from a Greater Demon like a Jinn (their elemental nature matches with the concept of 'elemental deities' that Trogs worship, and page 154 does list Devils/Demons under 'Types of Gods) or Baal-rog (fire elemental powers) or Vampire (perhaps a Trog Vampire?) or a Greater Devil like a Horror (air elemental powers) or Serpent (earth elemental powers)

Going beyond Trogs and Shamans, for Vampires who know magic (like Taron Gersidi, page 257) couldn't they impart some of those spell-casting capabilities to priests dedicated to them? Or could they be a priest of themself to generate miracles even though that wouldn't add spells since you can't get spells your patron doesn't know?

[Library Ogre]

I would say Trog Shamans could certainly worship a Jinn or similar being. I'd be leery of Vampires if playing 2nd edition, because they're no longer properly Demons or Deevils, but now corpses animated by a fragment of an alien intelligence. A Greater Deemon/Devil who could grant priestly powers would be a bit above the power of a standard Jinn, but may be a bit below even the lowliest of deity. Personally, I allow priests and 1e shamans to get elemental spells if that's what their patron has available... gods are above the warlock/wizard divide, and can give what they want.

Now, if you're using the 2e version of the Shaman, from the Adventures on the High Seas, it becomes semi-irrelevant, since they don't derive any powers directly from the beings they worship.

Now, a vampire capable of casting wizard spells casts wizard spells... an exception to the usual (2e) rule that vampires can't know magic. But we REALLY have to clear up which edition we're talking about, since some of the metaphysical differences between the two games are the biggest.

[Soldier of Od]

FYI a Troglodyte can be a shaman in second edition (High Seas, page 38).
But if you are playing first edition that doesn't matter as the two shaman O.C.C.s are totally different.

If you wanted a shaman to gain powers from a greater demon or devil, you could perhaps allow the highest levels of the demon/deevil hierarchy to bestow powers in this way - Demon 'Princes' and Deevil 'Regents' are greater demons/deevils one step below the demon/deevil lords, with thousands of followers, and are already granted special deific powers because of their rank. But again, if you are playing first edition I'm not sure how you would convert these powers.

[Library Ogre]

Well, crap, it does say 1st edition in the title, doesn't it? And there I went, confusing the matter. I'm sorry.

So, yes, a Trog Shaman could certainly worship a greater demon, and gain powers thereby. If I were to create such a creature, it would be a high-level deemon or devil, with close-to-maximum stats, and perhaps with a few "specials" that the type normally doesn't have... extra psionic powers, some magic that's outside the norm for that species, etc. Maybe the Jinn has learned summoning, and uses it to summon forth foes to slaughter, and uses Summon Pawn to keep track of its shamans... or summons other Jinn to force services from them, increasing his own power.

In the case of vampires, I'd follow a similar methodology. Taron Gersidi (for example) may have people devoted to him (perhaps a cult of ancestor-worshipers), and he may be powerful enough to grant spells to his followers. For clerical abilities, I might be inclined to simply give him the equivalent wizard spells, with faith letting his clerics invoke those powers, or give him the clerical abilities of his most powerful cleric. Incidentally, that could make the tombs of the Gersidi WAY more interesting, if killing Taron meant that a group of vampire-worshipers then comes after the group, having been stripped of their powers.

[Axelmania]

FYI a Troglodyte can be a shaman in second edition (High Seas, page 38).

That mentions that they are found "among those races". They are indifferent to Gnomes who are also subterranean so this might mean in 2nd edition that Gnome Shamans live upon and aid Troglodytes rather than Troglodytes still being able to become Shamans. The removal of Shaman from the small list of acceptable OCCs makes me think they can't be.

If you wanted a shaman to gain powers from a greater demon or devil, you could perhaps allow the highest levels of the demon/deevil hierarchy to bestow powers in this way - Demon 'Princes' and Deevil 'Regents' are greater demons/deevils one step below the demon/deevil lords, with thousands of followers, and are already granted special deific powers because of their rank. But again, if you are playing first edition I'm not sure how you would convert these powers.

Just let all greater demons and devils bestow clerical powers to priests/shamans per 1st edition. Makes them a lot more formidable and better explains why they might wish for servants and why people might wish to serve them.

Trog servants would be very useful for a vampire since they're such good tunnelers so they could create underground passageways and hideouts to protect them from the sun.

All vampires in 1st ed being able to bestow clerical abilities also makes them a lot more potentially symbiotic than parasitic, if you think about it. They could create a servant with unlimited 'healing touch' abilities and then simply use healing touch to heal the injuries vampires inflicted upon those whose blood they drank.

[Soldier of Od]

FYI a Troglodyte can be a shaman in second edition (High Seas, page 38).

That mentions that they are found "among those races". They are indifferent to Gnomes who are also subterranean so this might mean in 2nd edition that Gnome Shamans live upon and aid Troglodytes rather than Troglodytes still being able to become Shamans. The removal of Shaman from the small list of acceptable OCCs makes me think they can't be.

What small list of acceptable O.C.C.s do you mean?

[Axelmania]

Palladium Fantasy 2nd Edition page 296 "Limited to mercenary, soldier, thief, assassin, monk or vagabond".

[Library Ogre]

Yes, but
a) Shaman is from a subsequent book, so might allow them
b) You're talking 2e, while the OP is asking 1e, so it's irrelevant.

[Axelmania]

But I am the OP... and in the original post I mentioned that Trogs can't be Shamans in 2nd and SoO pointed out a suggestive thing in 2nd book implying they might be, and asked about what I said so I explained.

[The Dark Elf]

Is it possible that Trog Shamen could possibly worship and derive their powers from a Greater Demon like a Jinn

Going beyond Trogs and Shamans, for Vampires who know magic (like Taron Gersidi, page 257) couldn't they impart some of those spell-casting capabilities to priests dedicated to them?

If it says in canon as you stated then you've answered your own question.

For the vampires if its not in canon its up to you. I dont think Id allow it in a game Id GM, but I dont like the idea of a priest getter powers from a greater demon.

[Soldier of Od]

But I am the OP... and in the original post I mentioned that Trogs can't be Shamans in 2nd and SoO pointed out a suggestive thing in 2nd book implying they might be, and asked about what I said so I explained.

As Mark said, the Shaman O.C.C. didn't exist in second edition when the main book came out, so it couldn't have been listed among the available O.C.C.s for a Troglodyte (or for any other race). Only the ones that are allowed to choose from 'all clergy O.C.C.s' would technically cover it. So, later, when the second edition Shaman O.C.C. was created, it becomes necessary to list what races can become shamans. Which it does, in the 'found among' list. Note that the shaman O.C.C. is not available to hobgoblins either based on their list of O.C.C.s in the PFRPG main book, but an example of an individual hobgoblin shaman is given in High Seas.

[Axelmania]

Good point about the Hobgoblin, I wasn't aware that there was a 2nd ed version, that example shows that the racial limits in the main book should be interpreted only in respect to main book OCCs and that any OCCs from later books are allowed unless otherwise indicated under them.

Book-legally, Vampires and other Greater Demons can give clerical abilities to empower Shaman/Priest minions, and Trogs can be one of them, I'm just thinking more about the role-play aspect. What races were the first vampires? 1st edition only human NPC examples were given but it seemed like any race could become them. I don't think supernatural creatures were off limits like with the Rifts/Kingdoms version we've seen in all books since.