Hitting the enemies eye with a called shot in melee.

[SittingBull]

........

[say652]

At level 7 an Assassin gets Deathblow for two attacks and a successful hit.

Seems legit.

[SittingBull]

The character I am referencing is level 2...

[kiralon]

Say is talking about this order if combat:

Attacker rolls strike
Defender uses simultaneous strike: combination parry/attack.

Parry success, roll strike.

Simultaneous strike is its own special attack, doing a simultaneous strike and a combo parry attack is like doing a body flip/throw and a flying jump kick at the same time, they are 2 separate attack types.

[say652]

The character I am referencing is level 2...

So allow a wildshot DeathBlow attempt for three attacks, and the negative to strike being the level required for said abilities in their particular hand to hand,

[Alrik Vas]

Say is talking about this order if combat:

Attacker rolls strike
Defender uses simultaneous strike: combination parry/attack.

Parry success, roll strike.

Simultaneous strike is its own special attack, doing a simultaneous strike and a combo parry attack is like doing a body flip/throw and a flying jump kick at the same time, they are 2 separate attack types.

You can do exactly that with WP Paired Weapons...So....

[kiralon]

Defender uses simultaneous strike: combination parry/attack, attacker responds by simultaneous attack: simultaneous strike, the defender simultaneously strikes the first simultaneous attack and combination parry/attacks and simultaneously strikes on the combination parry/attack.
The paired weapons combination strike/parry lets you strike one attacker, and parry someone else at the same time, you don't do that to the same person.

[Alrik Vas]

You wield sword and shield. Enemy has battle axe. He attacks, you use the canon, RAW Function of WP Paired Weapon to block with shield while countering him. That is a subset of simultaneous strike. Paired Weapons exists for more reason than doubling up on attacks. Read the text again.

[kiralon]

You wield sword and shield. Enemy has battle axe. He attacks, you use the canon, RAW Function of WP Paired Weapon to block with shield while countering him. That is a subset of simultaneous strike. Paired Weapons exists for more reason than doubling up on attacks. Read the text again.

1. Strike and parry simultaneously. In other words, warriors skilled
in paired weapons can often perform two actions for every one melee
action/attack.
so in your action if you get attacked you can parry and attack
"In other words, warriors skilled in
paired weapons often can do two actions for every one of their melee attacks
(i.e. strike and parry)"
so if someone goes off simultaneously with you in the initiative order and hits you, you can strike/parry.
A simultaneous attack isn't a melee attack.
The problem is that paired weapons has 2 entries, 1 is very similar to first ed, the other doesn't mention the negatives at all.

[Alrik Vas]

I'm not familiar where it says you need the same initiative order in other for an attack to be declared simultaneous. It seems more of, "go ahead and hit me, I can take it" to quote the writer.

Paired Weapons allows you a parry attempt instead of absolutely getting hit when you elect to do so.

I'm missing where what you wrote is in disagreement aside the bit about initiative order.

[kiralon]

easier way for me to explain it is you can use a special attack like paired weapons to get a double strike at any time you can drink a potion, simultaneous attack is a special move, and you can't use a special move with a special move.

[SittingBull]

Using paired weapons and double striking isn't a special move; its attacking. Attacking twice but attacking. Every GM I have played with, over the past 3 decades, allowed players to hold their action then double attack when their opponent attacked them. The only time this wasn't allowed was when wp paired weapons wasn't allowed. Then, though less often since it wasn't as beneficial to do, the hold action and then attack when you are attacked was still allowed.

[kiralon]

Using paired weapons and double striking isn't a special move; its attacking. Attacking twice but attacking. Every GM I have played with, over the past 3 decades, allowed players to hold their action then double attack when their opponent attacked them. The only time this wasn't allowed was when wp paired weapons wasn't allowed. Then, though less often since it wasn't as beneficial to do, the hold action and then attack when you are attacked was still allowed.

It is a special move because you have to take paired to be able to do it, but it is pretty much what I said, if you hold your action you can drink a potion (if you allow held actions of course).
So how about double striking in your action and then simultaneous attacking and double striking in your opponents action, and simultaneous attack double striking the next 3 opponents, or waiting for your last action and doing a leap attack which lets you attack 2 targets, and using wp paired with that so you get to attack 4 times.
That's what I aimed to stop because WP paired is plain ridiculous. I think I get the idea behind it, but it does get much abused.

[Alrik Vas]

Paired doesn't allow that sort.of thing, but we can disagree, that's fine.