Wait What?

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Wait What?

Unread post by eliakon »

So I am reading Bizantinum and the religion sections and suddenly they are talking about Algor being Ods father, and his brothers and such....

Does this really mean that this book has changed the official set up of the deities?

And how old are the Northern gods anyway (especially Wolvenar). I ask because there is a relic of Wolvenar that is over 10,000 years old....which doesn't seem to jive with him being a brand new young god....


And Beastly Mother of Monsters? When did Algor get married?
Edited to reflect corrections to my understanding
Last edited by eliakon on Tue Jun 16, 2015 9:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Wait What?

Unread post by Jerell »

Avast thar! Algor is Od's Unlce, according to Eoten legend anyways. According to the same legend, Od was born during the Battle of the Gods, that makes him around 90,000 years old. Epim and Belimar are both mentioned in the same time frame. Algor was not married, but his older bother hooked up though. If the elves did indeed create the Wolfen at the Elf-Dwarf war (10,000 years ago), as certain sources may suggest, the birth of Wolvenar around that time would make sense.

Yes the Bizantium Sky Riders have Pegasus. It is a fairly new unit. Very few people know of them, as far as most of the people of the world are concerned they can continue to believe that the Bizantium Marines don't have airborne troops. :twisted:
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Re: Wait What?

Unread post by eliakon »

Jerell wrote:Avast thar! Algor is Od's Unlce, according to Eoten legend anyways. According to the same legend, Od was born during the Battle of the Gods, that makes him around 90,000 years old. Epim and Belimar are both mentioned in the same time frame. Algor was not married, but his older bother hooked up though. If the elves did indeed create the Wolfen at the Elf-Dwarf war (10,000 years ago), as certain sources may suggest, the birth of Wolvenar around that time would make sense.

Yes the Bizantium Sky Riders have Pegasus. It is a newer unit. Very few people know of them, as far as most of the people of the world are concerned they can continue to believe that the Bizantium Marines don't have airborne troops. :twisted:


Except that the book says outright that Algor is Ods father, that Bestilia is his wife, and that Brgg is his brother......
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Re: Wait What?

Unread post by Jerell »

I say, old boy. It says Brgg is Od's father. It's on page 13.

Further more, "The Binding of Brgg" from the Saga of Od the All Father states Brgg as brother of Algor and the father of Od.

:)
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Re: Wait What?

Unread post by glitterboy2098 »

mind providing sources for any of that, outside of the Bizantium book?
after all, Dragons and Gods only lists Algor as being from the same place as the northen pantheon. if he was related to any of the northern pantheon directly, you'd think that would get a mention.

also, in regard to wolvenar.. the deity is younger than the Wolfen republic, since it is speculated that th republic was what brought it into being.. and the republic has only been around for about 67 years..
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Re: Wait What?

Unread post by Library Ogre »

I'll point back to Dragons and Gods, where it says the gods don't often correct misperceptions about themselves. So even if Bizantium considers Algor to be a close relative of Od and the rest of the Northern Pantheon, that doesn't mean it's actually so... or even if it's actually so, that it actually matters a hot fart.
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Re: Wait What?

Unread post by eliakon »

Mark Hall wrote:I'll point back to Dragons and Gods, where it says the gods don't often correct misperceptions about themselves. So even if Bizantium considers Algor to be a close relative of Od and the rest of the Northern Pantheon, that doesn't mean it's actually so... or even if it's actually so, that it actually matters a hot fart.

Except that some of the statements are not given in a religious context. They are in narrative third person omniscient. The author is telling us information. It does not say "The natives think Beastlla is Algors wife" it says in the description "Beastla, the wife of Algor" there is a difference.
Algor can have misconceptions that's fine....
But you cant put differential information in the game book where its not interpretive.

If you have a rune sword that you say that Wolvenar wielded AND you say that the sword has been in a tomb untouched for 10,000 years you are saying that it is a fact that Wolvenar is 10,000 years old. That is not a 'misperception' because it is given by the author to the reader directly.
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Re: Wait What?

Unread post by eliakon »

<edit>
The rules are not a bludgeon with which to hammer a character into a game. They are a guide to how a group of friends can get together to weave a collective story that entertains everyone involved. We forget that at our peril.

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Re: Wait What?

Unread post by Library Ogre »

eliakon wrote:But you cant put differential information in the game book where its not interpretive.


Why not? Heck, this is a Palladium book we're talking about, after all...
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Re: Wait What?

Unread post by eliakon »

Mark Hall wrote:
eliakon wrote:But you cant put differential information in the game book where its not interpretive.


Why not? Heck, this is a Palladium book we're talking about, after all...

Well I guess that's true. I guess we just have to go with "Palladium Fantasy canon is now as messed up and self-contradictory as Rifts Earth"
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Re: Wait What?

Unread post by Reagren Wright »

Et-hum, first thing you need to look at the true names for each of the Northern Deities in Dragons and Gods. For
example, Hoknar's true name is Hoknar Odsson. Locknar's true name is Locknar Odsson. Heim true
name is Heim'nara Ygllgssdotter. Now as for Od his real name is Od'Eanwll Brggson. Od is the son of
Brgg. A deity mentioned in Algor's Pantheon, nor the Pantheon of the Northern Gods because he is meant to be
forgotten. However, Algor has not forgotten about his brother. You can find Brgg name on page 101 among the
Pantheon of those within Algor's Pantheon.

Beastla is Od's mother. She is not married to Algor, in fact Algor imprisoned her. Natives think a lot of things like the
wind blowing in the Strait of Forelorn Hope is the breath of an Old One.
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Re: Wait What?

Unread post by Jerell »

Reagren Wright wrote:Now as for Od his real name is Od'Eanwll Brggson. Od is the son of
Brgg. A deity mentioned in Algor's Pantheon, nor the Pantheon of the Northern Gods because he is meant to be
forgotten.


Booyah! Excellent information.

eliakon wrote: It does not say "The natives think Beastlla is Algors wife" it says in the description "Beastla, the wife of Algor"


It does not say anywhere in Bizantium, that Algor is Beastla's wife. It does say, "Brgg allowed himself to be seduced by the charms of Beastla, who birthed him a son." Further, " Brgg named the boy Od."
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Re: Wait What?

Unread post by Reagren Wright »

I assure you it comes from an excellent source :D
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Re: Wait What?

Unread post by eliakon »

Hmmmm, I will admit, it seems I was wrong about Algor and Od.

Though the Wolvenar issue is still problematic. What with the sword that he was supposed to have wielded (And is nicer than his canon sword in D&G...where it says that he has not been provided with gear yet) has been buried for 200 times longer than the god who wielded it has been around.....
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Re: Wait What?

Unread post by Reagren Wright »

That I agree with you. However, we are still talking theory here. Do you theorize how a god came into being, and if
you try, do you tell it to him to his face. "Hey Wolvenar you only around because these Wolfen just made you up 67
years ago." In other words, you did appear in 1st edition so I question your existence. Then again he might have been
a minor god back when in the day say Elf/Dwarf War when wolfen where supposedly made by elves, although not
entirely confirmed yet?
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Re: Wait What?

Unread post by eliakon »

Reagren Wright wrote:That I agree with you. However, we are still talking theory here. Do you theorize how a god came into being, and if
you try, do you tell it to him to his face. "Hey Wolvenar you only around because these Wolfen just made you up 67
years ago." In other words, you did appear in 1st edition so I question your existence. Then again he might have been
a minor god back when in the day say Elf/Dwarf War when wolfen where supposedly made by elves, although not
entirely confirmed yet?


I would venture to say that "new god" and "Ten thousand years old" are mutually exclusive terms......

Especially since the gods find him as a baby... So if he was found 10,000 years ago why would anyone theorize he was caused by the Wolfen Empire. If he was found recently, then how was he wielding weapons 10,000 years ago.

(I can't recall where the legend that they were made by the elves is from, can anyone point me to the source?)

Not to mention the fact that this super rune weapon is better than the sword he has now. I mean if he has not yet had anything made for him (according to Dragons and Gods) why does he have a former weapon that is so great?
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Re: Wait What?

Unread post by Tor »

Jerell wrote:Avast thar! Algor is Od's Unlce, according to Eoten legend anyways.

I always figured Od was a made-up Palladium-ification of Odin...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ód
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eoten apparently is Jotun like the Palladium Giants, possibly a connection?

Although both Norse in nature I can't figure where Od is mentioned as being an Eoten. Nor can I find anything about Algor.

His wife Freyja and their daughters Hnoss and Gersemi is mentioned but I can't find info on Od's parents much less one's brother.

Could you direct us to an article somewhere, if not Wikipedia, about Algor?

eliakon wrote:the book says outright that Algor is Ods father, that Bestilia is his wife, and that Brgg is his brother

Which page says Algor's his dad? Is it possible that Algor cuckolded Brgg (or vice versa) and that's why Od is named Brgg's son per his surname instead of Algorsson?

Bestilia sounds interesting, do not think she was mentioned in D+G. Would like to see her and Angrboda and Ymrr and Ygllg and Trnk and Yrssvrr all detailed.

Question is: who is Od's mother? Is it Algor's wife Bestilia or whoever Brgg's wife (if he has one) is?

*wonders if the surname "Splainiisa'th" that Algor has is a play on "explain itself". "Ianate Kol" the first/last sandwiching Wolvenar isn't any more informative.

Jerell wrote:I say, old boy. It says Brgg is Od's father. It's on page 13.
Of Bizantium?
Dragons and Gods 101 lists Brgg in Algor's pantheon and page 167 Od's surname being "Brggson" is also a good giveaway.

Jerell wrote:"The Binding of Brgg" from the Saga of Od the All Father states Brgg as brother of Algor and the father of Od.
What page is that on?

eliakon wrote:it says in the description "Beastla, the wife of Algor"

Could it be possible that Algor is married to Od's mother without actually being his father?

eliakon wrote:the Wolvenar issue is still problematic. What with the sword that he was supposed to have wielded (And is nicer than his canon sword in D&G...where it says that he has not been provided with gear yet) has been buried for 200 times longer than the god who wielded it has been around.....

It's possible that the wizardry spells known by Od/Epim/Belimar include Temporal Magic, or that he was otherwise transported forward in time or put in stasis.

Isn't it only "theorized" that the rise of the Wolfen Empire is what birthed Wolvenar? Perhaps he acquired the sword while only a mere demigod/godling and later rose to godhood with the Empire?

eliakon wrote:if he was found 10,000 years ago why would anyone theorize he was caused by the Wolfen Empire.

Perhaps because he spent some millenia just chilling and not seeking worshippers so nobody knew he was around?

eliakon wrote:If he was found recently, then how was he wielding weapons 10,000 years ago.
Perhaps "recently" in god-terms?

I guess the question is... what's the youngest god in terms of exact age that we know? Could they all be hundreds of thousands or millions of years old?

I have no idea, can't recall specific clues, but if anyone does, we could start organizing a timeline.

eliakon wrote:if he has not yet had anything made for him (according to Dragons and Gods) why does he have a former weapon that is so great?

Wolvenar's equipment mentions that he prefers swords and the Belimar has promised to get him magic weapons, probably rune ones. Where does it say he hasn't had anything made for him before?

I would think that, since he has a preference, this could mean he's tried out swords already. Maybe he just wants more stuff or lost his old stuff.
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Re: Wait What?

Unread post by Soldier of Od »

Reagren Wright wrote:I assure you it comes from an excellent source :D

I take full credit for that information, as supported by this quote from an old thread from 2012 -
:D :D :D :D

Soldier of Od wrote:
Reagren Wright wrote:
Soldier of Od wrote:If you're going to do some Northen Gods, take a look at some of the last names of the gods presented, and think about doing the other family members - Brgg is Od's Father (even though Bragi was Odin's son), Ymrr is Epim's mother/father? (the Norse Ymir was male I think, but the general rule is that mothers names are passed down to daughters), Ygllgs is Heim's mother, Trnk is Belimar's father and the fire giantess Andgraboda (though not a god) is Hel's mother.


You my friend win the prize of being highly observant :ok: . I never noticed that. Brgg was simply
mentioned in name alone (nothing else) on page 101. With Od real name being Od'Eanwill (Brrgson)
that tells me a lot about who this Brgg might have been. Vallisque-Tan has some stuff written
about him so that shouldn't be to hard to write him up. As for everyone else, they are not listed
as Northern Gods. So that means they are dead or forgotten. I'm only interested in doing a legit
name found in the book.


Glad I could be of help! I noticed it when reading the description of Hel, where is says her mother was the giantess Angraboda, and then lists her true name as Hel Angrabodasdotter (or something similar). So I took a look at the rest of them.

I look forward to seeing your write-up of Brgg!

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Re: Wait What?

Unread post by Jerell »

Tor wrote:Which page says Algor's his dad? Is it possible that Algor cuckolded Brgg (or vice versa) and that's why Od is named Brgg's son per his surname instead of Algorsson?


No page does, he was mistaken.

Tor wrote:Question is: who is Od's mother? Is it Algor's wife Bestilia or whoever Brgg's wife (if he has one) is?


No question, Beastla is Od's mother. Neither Brgg nor Algor, to my knowledge, are ever mentioned to have wives. Brgg just 'allowed himself to be seduced' (deific booty call) by Beastla. That makes her Brgg's 'baby's momma.' Algor gets visited by Lista now and then, they don't seem to have much of a relationship however.

Tor wrote:
Jerell wrote:I say, old boy. It says Brgg is Od's father. It's on page 13.
Of Bizantium?
Dragons and Gods 101 lists Brgg in Algor's pantheon and page 167 Od's surname being "Brggson" is also a good giveaway.


Yeah. Bizantium, that's the book Eliakon was referencing.

Tor wrote:
Jerell wrote:"The Binding of Brgg" from the Saga of Od the All Father states Brgg as brother of Algor and the father of Od.
What page is that on?


184

Tor wrote:
eliakon wrote:it says in the description "Beastla, the wife of Algor"

Could it be possible that Algor is married to Od's mother without actually being his father?


Probably not, since there is no mention of Algor having a wife, or Beastla being the wife of anyone. No top of the fact that Beastla is stated as Od's mother.
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Re: Wait What?

Unread post by Reagren Wright »

Beastla's write up can be found in Bizantium on page 181-183
Brgg's write up can be found in Bizantium on page 184-185.

Brgg was essentially tricked into being seduced by Beastla (she can metamorphosis into anything). The Old One's
Killer of Dragons didn't see a 1000 foot sea monster and just fall in love :lol: . We can surmise she foresaw his fate
if she played him as she did. The sons of old gods seem to have a habit of taking out their fathers.
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Re: Wait What?

Unread post by Kargan3033 »

Reagren Wright wrote:Beastla's write up can be found in Bizantium on page 181-183
Brgg's write up can be found in Bizantium on page 184-185.

Brgg was essentially tricked into being seduced by Beastla (she can metamorphosis into anything). The Old One's
Killer of Dragons didn't see a 1000 foot sea monster and just fall in love :lol: . We can surmise she foresaw his fate
if she played him as she did. The sons of old gods seem to have a habit of taking out their fathers.


And it would seems that the daughters of the Gods have a *strained* relationship with their mothers.

All in all the gods seems to be more trouble their they a worth, hmm gives me an idea for a game.
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Re: Wait What?

Unread post by Jerell »

Kargan3033 wrote:All in all the gods seems to be more trouble their they a worth, hmm gives me an idea for a game.


Yeah, sometimes. But the divine healing and rezing comes in real handy sometimes too.
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Re: Wait What?

Unread post by Tor »

Reagren Wright wrote:The Old One's Killer of Dragons didn't see a 1000 foot sea monster and just fall in love.

I dunno, just because you kill a bunch of dragons doesn't mean you can't love some other kind of monster...

I mean heck, look at Buffy and Angel/Spike.

Maybe he had Apsu-like tastes? Didn't he and Tiamat hook up? Someone should draw that.
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