ME penalties for breaking a characters will

[Achalon1]

Hello,

I was wondering if anyone had any ideas as to the penalties a character should have inflicted if their will is broken. For example, in the article "How Much is that Wolven in the Window" in Rifter 38, pg 45, it discusses breaking the will of a slave using a Mind Mage. I'm curious as to what kind of mechanical effects this should have on a character.

I'm just spitballing here, but I was thinking of reducing the affected characters ME by 1/2. What does everyone else think?

Thanks,

[Deadboy Dakka]

Well, I would personally drop the M.E. by around 4. I'm basing that off of the Mind Wipe power, where if you make it permanent. However then again, I think doing this to Players would just cause problems.

[Achalon1]

I'm not looking to inflict this on a player, lol. Although that could be an interesting turn of events...

I'm actually wondering how to run it with NPC's. If a Mind Mage Player wanted to break an NPC slave or something...

[Deadboy Dakka]

That all depends on the context. If you remove any M.E. it should be a smaller amount. And to point out how tough the human will can be, look at the Vietnam Conflict. If anything, an alignment change or personality shift would make the most sense.

[Achalon1]

I'm not specifically talking about torture; more like conditioning. That Rifter article I referenced does a good job of explaining it better than I could, you're basically eroding a persons independence and modifying their personality. While I agree that an alignment or personality shift is likely, there should be an affect on the characters ME as well, mechanically speaking. I was thinking of reducing the value by half, because the stronger willed a person is, the more they have to loose.

(i.e. a character has an ME of 10. After conditioning, it drops to 5 to show their weak/damaged mind. Someone with a ME of 30 will take an incredible amount of time and resources to break, but once broken their ME drops to 15. They may still have a strong will compared to some, but nothing compared to how they were before.) -- This is what I was thinking, but it doesn't quite feel right. That's why I'm asking for openions.

Another thought was to arbitrarily drop their ME to a set value of... say 6-8 or something... Or drop it to 8 or -1D4 - whichever is lower. Just spitballing.

A character that comes to mind off the top of my head is Theon Greyjoy from Game of Thrones. He was basically tortured until he shattered, but same concept.

[eliakon]

There is an side effect to Trasmutation Torture in Rifts Atlantis pg. 108 you might want...

Submission.....to defy any of the elite.....must roll a save vs mind control....

Looks like exactly what you need.

[Deadboy Dakka]

I'm not specifically talking about torture; more like conditioning. That Rifter article I referenced does a good job of explaining it better than I could, you're basically eroding a persons independence and modifying their personality. While I agree that an alignment or personality shift is likely, there should be an affect on the characters ME as well, mechanically speaking. I was thinking of reducing the value by half, because the stronger willed a person is, the more they have to loose.

(i.e. a character has an ME of 10. After conditioning, it drops to 5 to show their weak/damaged mind. Someone with a ME of 30 will take an incredible amount of time and resources to break, but once broken their ME drops to 15. They may still have a strong will compared to some, but nothing compared to how they were before.) -- This is what I was thinking, but it doesn't quite feel right. That's why I'm asking for openions.

Another thought was to arbitrarily drop their ME to a set value of... say 6-8 or something... Or drop it to 8 or -1D4 - whichever is lower. Just spitballing.

A character that comes to mind off the top of my head is Theon Greyjoy from Game of Thrones. He was basically tortured until he shattered, but same concept.

And short of breaking the mind, psionics would only be a small part. The human brain is an amazing thing. And a huge priority would most likely just be shifting the personality. Taking advantage of a high M.E. would be amazing.

[Library Ogre]

I didn't picture it actually causing ME damage. Rather, it is a matter of wearing someone down over days, possibly weeks, until they've failed so many saves v. psionics that the specific goal you're trying for is achieved.

You Mind Wipe (temporary) to clear their brain, then you Insert Memory with false memories (the master as savior, the slave as having chosen this, whatever). When the wiped memories come back, they conflict with the few things you definitely remember. You throw in Hypnotic Suggestions and Empathic Transmissions, while simultaneously keeping them from resting (especially if they're psychics who might use Mind Block).

This is expensive and takes time... a normal person (10 ME) takes 10 days to truly condition. If they're a minor psychic, that goes up to 15 days. If they have mind block, it's 20. If they're a master psychic, but don't have Mind-Block Auto Defense? It's 30 days, assuming they have an ME of 10. Make that ME 15, and you're looking at a month and a half. All this time, you're paying a psychic to exhaust himself against this person's mind.