Suggestions? Playable Race List

[Prysus]

Greetings and Salutations. So I have an O.C.C. and Skill List on my site for PF, and I feel rather comfortable with their completeness (excluding the new Bizantium book which I'll be picking up at the POH shortly). I'd also like to include a Playable Race List. This is something I've wanted to do the right way for a long time, but could never quite figure out how to do it properly. What criteria do I use?

I think at one point (for my original list), I used some type of balance between intelligence (as well as removing things that forced the entire race to act only one certain way, as that would limit unique characters) ... or something like that. Truth be told, I can't remember. I look at that list sometimes and just ask: "What was I thinking?! Why is that race on there but such and such race isn't? Huh?" The fact I can't remember, nor deduce, what criteria I used scares me. I still have it on my site as a stopgap, but I'd rather have something I'm more comfortable with.

I mean, in Monsters & Animals it mentions they put a R.C.C. for those most suitable as player characters, and yet Werebeasts aren't on there (which seem rather playable, in my opinion). Okay, maybe I should just ignore judgment calls. I can live with that. But then I look at Baalgor Wastelands, and I can say Quorian and Gosai are meant as playable races, yet no real indicator (that I could find) that separates them from the animals in the same section. Are the animals meant as playable too? I doubt it, yet I'm back to judgment calls. Each time I try to figure out a solution I feel like I'm faced with an impossible task.

To this day, making a good list eludes me. I don't mind taking the time to do it, but I can't decide what guidelines to use in making it. So I turn to you, and ask your thoughts. If you have suggestions of how to make a good list in this way, I'm open. I'd like a good, fair, unbiased method that doesn't involve judgment calls (if I can avoid it), this way the list is of most use to as many as possible (because it'll be done impartially and by the book, as opposed to trying to force my opinions on others). Thanks for your time and any help, please have a nice day. Farewell and safe journeys for now.

[Glistam]

You could look in the books of other settings for guidance in that regard - specifically, the Revised Rifts Conversion Book 1. The section for Palladium starts on page 73 and according to the second column, second paragraph of page 74 it is a list of "the most common or notable R.C.C.'s of the Palladium World." All these entries seem to have O.C.C.'s and/or R.C.C.'s. It looks like the section goes through to page 128, where it then talks about Monsters. But in this section, too, some of the entries note the possibility of being usable as player characters or not being recommended as player characters, either in the title of the race, the description, or in the O.C.C. section.

If using this book, I would say barring a specific note about suitability as a P.C. in the race description somewhere, that the ability to select O.C.C.'s or have an R.C.C. could be a suitable criteria for whether or not it is available as a P.C..

While a case can be made that this is a Rifts book, and therefore the notes about being suitable as P.C.'s are really Rifts notes, some of the races note the O.C.C.'s suitable to Palladium Fantasy, and barring anything else, it's as good a place as any to make a determination. At least, for the books that were available when the Revised Conversion Book was updated and originally published.

Werebeasts, though they were listed in the original Conversion Book 1, no longer appear in the Revised version and instead are noted starting on page 99 of the Rifts Conversion Book 3: Dark Conversions, in the 'Beyond the Supernatural" section. Though they are listed as available to be optional P.C.'s (with G.M. approval), this is the BtS section and thus a stronger case could be made to exclude this from applying to Palladium Fantasy. But still, in the absence of a better idea, I think this may be suitable.

[Prysus]

Greetings and Salutations. I have a few initial reservations regarding the above suggestion, but will investigate it more when I get the chance (because it may work better than I realize from memory alone, or once some effort is applied).

However, I post now to address the Werebeast issue (and demonstrate one issue with RCB for my source). The Werebeasts in that book are NOT the same as the ones in PF. The PF version can only transform at night (otherwise always humanoid) and only have a giant beast form (no hybrid form). They can also select O.C.C. (possibly with restrictions, I can't recall for sure).

With that said, as I think about it, combining the RCB option with a few other methods might work (will involve more investigation). Still open to ideas as well. Break is over. Farewell and safe jjourneys.

[ShadowLogan]

I would first create the list using Palladium classifications in how they list them as: playable, optionally playable, non-playable.

The last two are generally noted in their descriptions (at least in Rifts). Weather you include the "non-playable" is up to you. (when I compiled a list of megaverse languages awhile back I had a section for races that didn't have any identification one way or the other)

That keeps bias out of it, avoids possible confusion on why your classification assignment is different than the books. From there you could make a personal variation on the list based on your own criteria and move things around.

[Prysus]

I would first create the list using Palladium classifications in how they list them as: playable, optionally playable, non-playable.

The last two are generally noted in their descriptions (at least in Rifts).

Greetings and Salutations. That would be ideal. My issue is stemming from the fact Palladium Fantasy (for the most part) does not have such listings in their books (with Monsters and Animals being an exception... even though the RCB1 list as some options not in the M&A list), at least not that I can find. Hence, my request for suggestions. If PF clearly labeled the races, that would've made this much simpler.

Note: The RCB1 option is showing potential. Right now I'm thinking three sets of lists. 1: Those clearly defined in PF (which won't be as much as most would like). 2: A list expanded to include those detailed in Rifts (as the list differs from PF, I'd like to keep some degree of separation). 3: A few recommendations by me (a few I feel the other two might've left off, but just as good).

I'm still open to suggestions though. The above idea might be better than my current more random list, but not exactly ideal either. Farewell and safe journeys.

[Library Ogre]

1. Everybody must be gnomes.
</end list>

[Glistam]

I think your second list will itself have a could different categories, as the information seems to indicate there are races considered to be just fine as P.C.'s, there are races which could be used as a P.C. only with G.M. permission, and then there are races which are acknowledged to be challenging to play but could be played with G.M. permission.

[Jerell]

Gnomes and Trogs (has anyone ever played one of those?) should require GM permission...

[kiralon]

Gnomes and Trogs (has anyone ever played one of those?) should require GM permission...

I find that they are self filtering, because if the campaign isn't based around them their negatives tend to cause their deaths.

[Jerell]

A decade or so ago, when I ran a PF campaign, I had one player run a Gnome thief who would often survive by hiding in the Backpack of the Ogre Merc... They can be sneaky little gits sometimes.

[Glistam]

Did this list ever get made? I find myself in a position where a list of all playable races and where to find them would be handy.

[Prysus]

Did this list ever get made? I find myself in a position where a list of all playable races and where to find them would be handy.

Greetings and Salutations. I've never done more work on this list. I asked this same question on other boards as well. The reoccurring answer was that what I wanted couldn't be done, at least not how I wanted it. I could make some lists that might better than what I have now, but it wouldn't really be a great list either. The results of my findings left me with a sense of futility regarding the project. Perhaps one day I will attempt to tackle this again, but for the time being I've diverted my efforts to other projects. If you'd like to look at the old list I wrote up, then I'll include the link.

http://prysus.com/pf_races.htm

This list isn't perfect. A lot of them are based off of what I felt like indicators, and most of them I can still comprehend. However, there are some that I honestly don't know what criteria I used that included that race while excluding another. Also, I didn't include anything from the Land of the Damned books (I made a conscious choice at the time to exclude it), though I did update it with Bizantium. Whether you use that list or not is your call. Hope that helps. Farewell and safe journeys.

[Glistam]

Cool, thanks for the update. The old list was helpful!

[Boethermsbrukan]

1. Everybody must be gnomes.
</end list>

Hmph. So it wasn't that ear-docked Centurion who's been sneaking off with my undergarments this last assignment! Glad to know it, anyway.

On topic, tho': I like the way Kevin and Crew have put forth the pro's and con's of different races along with RCC/PCC's in Palladium Fantasy (and Rifts, too) along the lines of 'What would be appropriate?' rather than 'Not allowed!'. If you're going to play a Wolfen PC in a player group seeking adventure and/or employment in the Eastern Territory (and in modern Palladium Fantasy even moreso, the Disputed Lands) it's more along the lines of the kind of reception you'd get in most human villages that might turn you off of doing so (and a body wouldn't have needed to read 1st ed. Book IV/V or the 2nd ed. 'Wolfen Empire' to know it). Having to spend the night outside the village with the horses instead of in a warm bed in the inn is never fun.

For argument's sake, it's more likely that you'd find a Wolfen in an Eastern-range adventuring party than, say, in the South, where coming across one of the Canine races would be quite rare if at all. Was nice of Baron Marquest (Tombs Of Gersidi, back o' the book adventure in the 1st Ed. mainbook) to employ an entire mercenary company of Wolfen so far from home.

-Boe.

[Prysus]

Greetings and Salutations. I've been giving this some thought recently and think I figured out a better method for my race list and have spent most of the day going through each book one by one. All that'll really be left is for me to find a format I'm happy with before posting it to my site (which I'll probably do next weekend).

The method I've decided upon is that I am simply going to list EVERYTHING. The list will contain three main categories: Animal, Monster, and Playable. There are a few bonus categories such as Undead, Demon, Deevil, Elemental, & Dragon. I did NOT (nor do I have any plans to do so) separate Creatures of Magic and Supernatural Beings. Palladium has thrown those terms around rather loosely in the past, and it would only further create confusion with races such as Faeries which can be Playable AND Creature of Magic. So, for ease of the list (and my sanity), you'll have to figure those out on your own. I'll explain how I broke down the main three categories.

Animal: Some of these are clearly identified from Monsters & Animals. However, I decided that just about any race (even those in the "Monsters" section) listed with "Animal" intelligence (or otherwise identified as such) would be listed as an animal.

Monster: If it doesn't have "animal intelligence" (or otherwise identified as such), and it's not Playable, then it's probably found here. This does not indicate evil or enemies, just that they're categorized as "Monsters" (intelligent, but non-playable races). Note: Separating Monster and Animal was difficult at times. Sometimes one may slip from one category into the next, and I had to use a few judgment calls along the way. This is not necessarily a solid division, but I believe one that will be acceptable.

Playable: These are categories that are identified as Playable in the book. A few of the books I had to extrapolate (they identified which were "Monsters" and, by process of elimination, I was left with the "Playable" races). I also tried to identify which Playable races could NOT select an O.C.C. (skills determined by race) as "Character Class" and those that were considered "Giant" as far as weapon damage is concerned (so Wolfen, Troll, Minotaur, True Giants, etc.). If a race is listed as "NPC Monster" (or equivalent), and then a note about how a G.M. can allow them as Playable characters, I left them as monsters. Angel-Demon Serpents and Iceborn come to mind as monsters, despite having notes about how they can be used as Playable. This was a judgment call, but they're listed primarily as Villains first and foremost, so that's the ruling I went with. Note: Grimbor also fell into "Monster" status due to the listing in Monsters & Animals (a 2nd Edition book), despite being listed as a "Playable" in Yin-Sloth Jungles (a 1st Edition book, so I went with the newer ruling).

I did my best to leave any personal feelings out of the matter, which means Werebeasts are listed as "Monsters" (not "Playable") while others are listed as "Playable" (instead of "Monsters") despite my personal opinion on the matter. ALL races in Land of the Damned are categorized as "Monsters" as well. I know it's common to allow some of the Dying Races as Playable, but I didn't see anything in the book identifying them as such. Since I am not adding personal opinions on the matter, I left them as Monsters (unless someone can find a passage in the book discussing them as Playable Races). That's all for now and hope everyone is having a great weekend. Farewell and safe journeys to all.