I know very little has been given regarding any Wolfen city. With their dual backgrounds (scandinavian/roman) I have a hard time figuring out what a typical city should look like. While there are very romanized militarily, I have trouble imagining a typical roman city in the middle of the Northern Wilderness. Scandinavian longhouses and such seem much more in line with the environment.
What does everyone who plays in the Wolfen Empire visualize for the cities?
Wolfen cities
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Whiskeyjack
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Re: Wolfen cities
The level of Romanization of wolfen varies by tribe, and so by location. I would say that you tend to have a mixture of styles, with older buildings tending to be of Scandinavian design, with newer buildings being more Roman in style. Likewise, I'd probably go with a class thing... lower class buildings tend to be more Scandinavian in design, because it's well suited to the local materials and what the local craftsmen are used to.
I could also easily see there being some religious differences; I wouldn't expect a church to to the Northern Gods to have a Roman style.
I could also easily see there being some religious differences; I wouldn't expect a church to to the Northern Gods to have a Roman style.
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When I see someone "fisking" these days my first inclination is to think "That person doesn't have much to say, and says it in volume." -John Scalzi
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When I see someone "fisking" these days my first inclination is to think "That person doesn't have much to say, and says it in volume." -John Scalzi
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Boethermsbrukan
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Re: Wolfen cities
Mark, Whiskeyjack, good evening!
Originally when I got into Palladium Fantasy with a couple of the 'World Books' (IV and V, in particular) I assumed Wolfen society was for the most part xeroxed transposition of a considerable amount of Roman-styled bureaucracy, military, and the basic conceptuals of their society.
Mark's got it right on the dot, tho'; military uniform, high-level bureaucracy and military naming conventions are very much that way. However, move outside the Long Knife (The 'Grey Wolfen' tribe, with the most influence and involvement in the details of the Empire's bureaucracy) circle of influence, or even outside of any considerable center of population in the Wolfen Empire's territory (say, from Shadowfall out to what equates to the countryside) and I get the sense that you see a lot more of the 'olden style' tribal Wolfen government, with a lot less gray-area morality and bureaucracy (whether or not said town or village has either interest or ability in maintaining an 'outpost' of what now constitutes the Empire's central government) involved or observed. I think of it like the Scottish nobility and their Pictish tribal groups north of Hadrian's Wall in our own history; they were still the Scottish folk of the day both, but the latter did not always agree with- and often would not obey (shall we say fall in line with?)- their higher-ups, beyond their Chieftains and whoever amongst the nobility of the day they might in fact respect individually.
It's not that the numerous tribal groups amongst the Wolfen Empire's original constituents don't agree with, do not or will not obey Imperial edicts or the laws that bind the Tribes into the Empire proper (for better or for worse) as much as how far Imperial dictum will carry outside of the centers of Wolfen civilization or with individual Wolfen freemen and citizens. It's agreed, if anything, that what remains of the varying tribal customs have simply not been proven to be without use, and therefore not abandoned in the wake of Pax Imperia.
-Boe.
Originally when I got into Palladium Fantasy with a couple of the 'World Books' (IV and V, in particular) I assumed Wolfen society was for the most part xeroxed transposition of a considerable amount of Roman-styled bureaucracy, military, and the basic conceptuals of their society.
Mark's got it right on the dot, tho'; military uniform, high-level bureaucracy and military naming conventions are very much that way. However, move outside the Long Knife (The 'Grey Wolfen' tribe, with the most influence and involvement in the details of the Empire's bureaucracy) circle of influence, or even outside of any considerable center of population in the Wolfen Empire's territory (say, from Shadowfall out to what equates to the countryside) and I get the sense that you see a lot more of the 'olden style' tribal Wolfen government, with a lot less gray-area morality and bureaucracy (whether or not said town or village has either interest or ability in maintaining an 'outpost' of what now constitutes the Empire's central government) involved or observed. I think of it like the Scottish nobility and their Pictish tribal groups north of Hadrian's Wall in our own history; they were still the Scottish folk of the day both, but the latter did not always agree with- and often would not obey (shall we say fall in line with?)- their higher-ups, beyond their Chieftains and whoever amongst the nobility of the day they might in fact respect individually.
It's not that the numerous tribal groups amongst the Wolfen Empire's original constituents don't agree with, do not or will not obey Imperial edicts or the laws that bind the Tribes into the Empire proper (for better or for worse) as much as how far Imperial dictum will carry outside of the centers of Wolfen civilization or with individual Wolfen freemen and citizens. It's agreed, if anything, that what remains of the varying tribal customs have simply not been proven to be without use, and therefore not abandoned in the wake of Pax Imperia.
-Boe.
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Whiskeyjack
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Re: Wolfen cities
Thanks for the replies.
My main issue with the roman side is simply climate. I've lived my whole life in what would be the earth equivalent of the northern wilderness. Roman style buildings do not work here. They're very much a Mediterranean style. Likewise, I can't see them in typical medieval housing either. Long houses work greT for small tribes/ remote areas and even towns, but I can't see Shadowfall with that architecture.
My main issue with the roman side is simply climate. I've lived my whole life in what would be the earth equivalent of the northern wilderness. Roman style buildings do not work here. They're very much a Mediterranean style. Likewise, I can't see them in typical medieval housing either. Long houses work greT for small tribes/ remote areas and even towns, but I can't see Shadowfall with that architecture.
Re: Wolfen cities
I think that is where you are making your biggest mistake. You are thinking that just because the Wolfen have Roman-like influences that they would build Roman-like buildings in an environment unsuited for such architecture.
Roman style doesn't always mean buildings meant for a Mediterranean environment. The original Roman Empire stretched quite far to the north where such architecture would be... impractical... at best. If you have seen the movie King Arthur (2004), the architecture found in Brittan while under Roman occupation is probably more of what one is likely to see in the Great Northern Wilderness. It is still clearly Roman styling... but with a more practical design for the harsher weather found in Brittan when compared to Rome.
Of course, the further one gets from Imperial cities, the more Scandinavian the architecture is likely to become. That isn't to say one won't see such influences in the cities... it just won't be quite as obvious. Where a village maybe built around a Great Hall or Longhouse... such a building will be made out of stone in a city... with the Empire's distinct architectural flare... but still essentially fulfilling the same role. The two styles are not as incompatible as they may seem at first blush... one just has to realize that Roman styles varied greatly depending where in the Empire one was... and so to will it depend where in the Wolfen Empire one is as well.
Furthermore, the Wolfen Empire is made up of assimilated cultures... all ruled by one centralized government. Those brought into the Empire tend to keep their own architectural styles. Yes, the Wolfen help improve the architecture (often replacing wooden buildings with stone) and infrastructure... but the original styles are still likely to be kept... especially if they are more practical for the environment. If such a style is a significant improvement on what they Wolfen have, then it is likely to be taken back to the rest of the Empire as well. In this way... much like the Rome of our world... the architecture of the Empire will be a mish-mash of styles from the far corners of the Empire.
Lastly... the Wolfen aren't quite as affected by the cold as humans are. The thick fur they have does offer them a small amount of protection. Thus their buildings are likely to take that into account as well. Imagine if you were dressed in warm clothes year round... you wouldn't need to heat your home quite as much in the colder months and would want it a little cooler in the warmest months too. What may seem a little impractical for a human in a colder region may not be quite as impractical for a Wolfen given their fur. A human may find a worgen home to be a little cooler than they are comfortable with because of this.
Roman style doesn't always mean buildings meant for a Mediterranean environment. The original Roman Empire stretched quite far to the north where such architecture would be... impractical... at best. If you have seen the movie King Arthur (2004), the architecture found in Brittan while under Roman occupation is probably more of what one is likely to see in the Great Northern Wilderness. It is still clearly Roman styling... but with a more practical design for the harsher weather found in Brittan when compared to Rome.
Of course, the further one gets from Imperial cities, the more Scandinavian the architecture is likely to become. That isn't to say one won't see such influences in the cities... it just won't be quite as obvious. Where a village maybe built around a Great Hall or Longhouse... such a building will be made out of stone in a city... with the Empire's distinct architectural flare... but still essentially fulfilling the same role. The two styles are not as incompatible as they may seem at first blush... one just has to realize that Roman styles varied greatly depending where in the Empire one was... and so to will it depend where in the Wolfen Empire one is as well.
Furthermore, the Wolfen Empire is made up of assimilated cultures... all ruled by one centralized government. Those brought into the Empire tend to keep their own architectural styles. Yes, the Wolfen help improve the architecture (often replacing wooden buildings with stone) and infrastructure... but the original styles are still likely to be kept... especially if they are more practical for the environment. If such a style is a significant improvement on what they Wolfen have, then it is likely to be taken back to the rest of the Empire as well. In this way... much like the Rome of our world... the architecture of the Empire will be a mish-mash of styles from the far corners of the Empire.
Lastly... the Wolfen aren't quite as affected by the cold as humans are. The thick fur they have does offer them a small amount of protection. Thus their buildings are likely to take that into account as well. Imagine if you were dressed in warm clothes year round... you wouldn't need to heat your home quite as much in the colder months and would want it a little cooler in the warmest months too. What may seem a little impractical for a human in a colder region may not be quite as impractical for a Wolfen given their fur. A human may find a worgen home to be a little cooler than they are comfortable with because of this.
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Library Ogre
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Re: Wolfen cities
Razorwing wrote:Lastly... the Wolfen aren't quite as affected by the cold as humans are. The thick fur they have does offer them a small amount of protection. Thus their buildings are likely to take that into account as well. Imagine if you were dressed in warm clothes year round... you wouldn't need to heat your home quite as much in the colder months and would want it a little cooler in the warmest months too. What may seem a little impractical for a human in a colder region may not be quite as impractical for a Wolfen given their fur. A human may find a worgen home to be a little cooler than they are comfortable with because of this.
This is a good point. My main influence tends to be one of time, though. The wolfen have been "civilized" (that is to say, semi-Romanized) for less than a century. While there will obviously be some construction in line with the new aesthetic, a lot of the older structures will still be Scandinavian, and new structures won't always been Roman-influenced, for a variety of reasons.
-overproduced by Martin Hannett
When I see someone "fisking" these days my first inclination is to think "That person doesn't have much to say, and says it in volume." -John Scalzi
Happiness is a long block list.
If you don't want to be vilified, don't act like a villain.
The Megaverse runs on vibes.
All Palladium Articles
Mutant Dawn for Savage Worlds!
When I see someone "fisking" these days my first inclination is to think "That person doesn't have much to say, and says it in volume." -John Scalzi
Happiness is a long block list.
If you don't want to be vilified, don't act like a villain.
The Megaverse runs on vibes.
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Mutant Dawn for Savage Worlds!
Re: Wolfen cities
I didn't know that Wolven are based on the Romans. They suddenly seem much more appealing to me. Wolf people don't do much for me, but Romans. I love the Romans. If the Wolven are Romans, does that make the Coyles the Gauls? Or humans? Or is there no Correlation to the Gauls because this isn't earth?
I have to say, I'm really new to PF, but I am loving this setting. So diverse and rich.
I have to say, I'm really new to PF, but I am loving this setting. So diverse and rich.
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Library Ogre
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Re: Wolfen cities
The Wolfen, as several of us have mentioned, have a bit of a dichotomy in their presentation. Much of their technology is Scandinavian in appearance, but their Imperial stuff has a Roman flair, including titles, armor, and the like. Since they're presented as getting the trappings of empire (and thus the Roman stuff) only recently, it's generally assumed that they had a Scandinavian air before the Empire, then somehow acquired Roman trappings of Empire to reforge the north.
-overproduced by Martin Hannett
When I see someone "fisking" these days my first inclination is to think "That person doesn't have much to say, and says it in volume." -John Scalzi
Happiness is a long block list.
If you don't want to be vilified, don't act like a villain.
The Megaverse runs on vibes.
All Palladium Articles
Mutant Dawn for Savage Worlds!
When I see someone "fisking" these days my first inclination is to think "That person doesn't have much to say, and says it in volume." -John Scalzi
Happiness is a long block list.
If you don't want to be vilified, don't act like a villain.
The Megaverse runs on vibes.
All Palladium Articles
Mutant Dawn for Savage Worlds!
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Whiskeyjack
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Re: Wolfen cities
Razorwing wrote:I think that is where you are making your biggest mistake. You are thinking that just because the Wolfen have Roman-like influences that they would build Roman-like buildings in an environment unsuited for such architecture.
I'm not making any assumptions on what their buildings look like. That's my who point of the post is to see what others use for actual city architecture. While the romans had a lot of Northern holdings, I've never seen any real evidence of a truly northern Roman city. Sure Britain had forts and small way posts, but no true cities that I'm aware of. And the climate between Western Europe and Canada is night and day different. Even with their fur coats, they're going to want a fairly tightly sealed home. When the mercury hits -40 to -50 C you need protection no matter what (unless you're a polar bear). I've lived through those temps enough to have a good handle on just how brutal that is. A lot of animals built to survive winters here don't when the temps get down there.
While looking through some images on the web I've seen a few diagrams of Domus that I could envision as being melded with some aspects of a longhouse. It would be great if KS would commission a drawing of a portion of Shadowfall just to give everyone an idea on the appearance of one of their cities.
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Boethermsbrukan
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Re: Wolfen cities
Whiskeyjack wrote:While looking through some images on the web I've seen a few diagrams of Domus that I could envision as being melded with some aspects of a longhouse. It would be great if KS would commission a drawing of a portion of Shadowfall just to give everyone an idea on the appearance of one of their cities.
WJ, good evening!
Heck, I'd give it a go (drawing a couple of plates of Shadowfall's architecture or snapshot street scenes) just to see how I'd manage what I've been imagining in my mind's eye of the Empire's capital over the years, just for the fun of it. I wouldn't need to be commissioned to do it; I think it'd be fun!
-Boe.
Re: Wolfen cities
Did you ever end up trying to draw part of Shadowfall?
I was just thinking the other day, we need another Wolfen/Northern Wilderness Supplement... Maybe Shadowfall needs it's own little book or something.
I was just thinking the other day, we need another Wolfen/Northern Wilderness Supplement... Maybe Shadowfall needs it's own little book or something.
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Boethermsbrukan
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Re: Wolfen cities
Jerell, good afternoon, and thank you for posting back!
I hadn't seen any updates in this thread for weeks (up until I visited today), which seems to happen sometimes. That said, I've not gotten to it; my data drive uberfailed about three weeks ago, and I lost the better part of ten months of un-backed-up TIFF master references (read: scanned artwork in TIFF format for 'permanent' reference...well, that went well ^_^); I spent the first week of that getting my rig in temporary working order, and I'm glad I had a separate boot drive (an SSD) so I can at least make use of my computer until the replacement HD is bought (about three weeks from now).
I'm definitely going to be getting to some drawing sometime soon, and now that I know a few pics of my vision of Shadowfall would be welcome, they will definitely be in the queue. I usually work with pencil and ink (scanned in thus afterward, as mentioned) and colouring other than the basics isn't my forte, but I think a good few street scenes is not outside my skill range! ^_^
I hope Alex M. will reply to the posting in the Rifts forum regarding 'Palladium Books is looking to expand into other media' ---->
http://palladium-megaverse.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=122218
..as I'm having a blast with a Palladium Fantasy novel I'm working on. I suspect Palladium would want to see a finished product, or at least something that approached it (rather than an ambiguous idea) so I'm concentrating on getting further forward with it. (And fortunately, my ongoing written copies were on my boot drive!)
This is a picture of one of the Wolfen in the novel I'm working on; I'm eventually going to do a colour version but this is the final B&W product for the moment. ---> http://i.imgur.com/7saargw.jpg It's a decent example of the style I use in my artwork, as well as what will likely be involved in the drawings of Shadowfall that will be coming along soon. Since you've posted me about it; would you prefer the pictures to contain Wolfen building architecture only, or slice-of-the-moment street scenes containing the citizenry as well, Jerell?
Thanks again for posting me about the drawings, Jerell, and your kind interest in wanting to see my take on Shadowfall!
-Boe.
Edit 9:36pm: Aiyah! I found an old coloured version of an older scan the above pic, put in a couple of years back. The final version of the above pic, when it's coloured, will have a similar colour scheme to this one. ----> http://i.imgur.com/FGbFn4e.jpg
Jerell wrote:Did you ever end up trying to draw part of Shadowfall?
I was just thinking the other day, we need another Wolfen/Northern Wilderness Supplement... Maybe Shadowfall needs it's own little book or something.
I hadn't seen any updates in this thread for weeks (up until I visited today), which seems to happen sometimes. That said, I've not gotten to it; my data drive uberfailed about three weeks ago, and I lost the better part of ten months of un-backed-up TIFF master references (read: scanned artwork in TIFF format for 'permanent' reference...well, that went well ^_^); I spent the first week of that getting my rig in temporary working order, and I'm glad I had a separate boot drive (an SSD) so I can at least make use of my computer until the replacement HD is bought (about three weeks from now).
I'm definitely going to be getting to some drawing sometime soon, and now that I know a few pics of my vision of Shadowfall would be welcome, they will definitely be in the queue. I usually work with pencil and ink (scanned in thus afterward, as mentioned) and colouring other than the basics isn't my forte, but I think a good few street scenes is not outside my skill range! ^_^
I hope Alex M. will reply to the posting in the Rifts forum regarding 'Palladium Books is looking to expand into other media' ---->
http://palladium-megaverse.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=122218
..as I'm having a blast with a Palladium Fantasy novel I'm working on. I suspect Palladium would want to see a finished product, or at least something that approached it (rather than an ambiguous idea) so I'm concentrating on getting further forward with it. (And fortunately, my ongoing written copies were on my boot drive!)
This is a picture of one of the Wolfen in the novel I'm working on; I'm eventually going to do a colour version but this is the final B&W product for the moment. ---> http://i.imgur.com/7saargw.jpg It's a decent example of the style I use in my artwork, as well as what will likely be involved in the drawings of Shadowfall that will be coming along soon. Since you've posted me about it; would you prefer the pictures to contain Wolfen building architecture only, or slice-of-the-moment street scenes containing the citizenry as well, Jerell?
Thanks again for posting me about the drawings, Jerell, and your kind interest in wanting to see my take on Shadowfall!
-Boe.
Edit 9:36pm: Aiyah! I found an old coloured version of an older scan the above pic, put in a couple of years back. The final version of the above pic, when it's coloured, will have a similar colour scheme to this one. ----> http://i.imgur.com/FGbFn4e.jpg
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Whiskeyjack
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Re: Wolfen cities
I meant to reply and then completely forgot. I would personally love to see some living drawings of a wolfen city, showing some day to day life along with architecture.
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Boethermsbrukan
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Re: Wolfen cities
Whiskeyjack wrote:I meant to reply and then completely forgot. I would personally love to see some living drawings of a wolfen city, showing some day to day life along with architecture.
Whiskeyjack, good afternoon!
I think, then, that a drawing or few of that variety is in my pipeline. ^_^ Finally got CorelDRAW working on my SSD boot drive last night, so that'll help things along. Thank you as well for your kudos and interest in something I'm looking forward to coming up with, ami!
-Boe.
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Reagren Wright
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Re: Wolfen cities
I guess "someone" will have to ask Kevin if he plans on ever doing the forgotten
1Palladium Fantasy series Wolfen Wars himself or can a freelancer (or anybody)
can take it over. Because of the slight negative reception with Coalition vs
Tolkeen in Rifts not sure what the status of this series became. The set up was
initially laid out in Wolfen Empire so one day the Wolfen cities, tribes, etc could be
expanded upon. That is where I would suspect to see the details about Wolfen cities.
But any Wolfen fans out there want to give it a shot, I say go for it
1Palladium Fantasy series Wolfen Wars himself or can a freelancer (or anybody)
can take it over. Because of the slight negative reception with Coalition vs
Tolkeen in Rifts not sure what the status of this series became. The set up was
initially laid out in Wolfen Empire so one day the Wolfen cities, tribes, etc could be
expanded upon. That is where I would suspect to see the details about Wolfen cities.
But any Wolfen fans out there want to give it a shot, I say go for it
Last edited by Reagren Wright on Wed Jun 17, 2015 7:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Wolfen cities
More on Wolfen, and two books for the Old Kingdoms, and one for Lopan. That's what I want to see from PB above all else. Southwinds will have to tide me over, and what happened to Mysteries of Magic vol. 2?
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Boethermsbrukan
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Re: Wolfen cities
Greets, chummers!
Sorry for not putting in anything further up until now (and not gotten to the pics I've planned); my data drive (magnetic platter pup) as mentioned took a running leap off the Mountain G'rese, and I won't have its replacement for another week and change. The good news is that I've picked a couple of different 'locations' for the snapshot pics I've got in the barrel-to-do, and I'm planning on doing at least one in the next handful of days.
I'm quite happy to field suggestions for particular locations in Shadowfall (I know there's not a lot of canon detail for the city's infrastructure besides what probably would exist in a major fantasy city), if anyone's interested in passing them my way; also, assuming I'm not stepping on any legal issues Palladium would have regarding fan creations (non-canon, of course), would it be easier to put what I come up with on my DeviantArt, or just post Imgur private links as I have in the past?
Have a good one, mes amis!
-Boe.
Sorry for not putting in anything further up until now (and not gotten to the pics I've planned); my data drive (magnetic platter pup) as mentioned took a running leap off the Mountain G'rese, and I won't have its replacement for another week and change. The good news is that I've picked a couple of different 'locations' for the snapshot pics I've got in the barrel-to-do, and I'm planning on doing at least one in the next handful of days.
I'm quite happy to field suggestions for particular locations in Shadowfall (I know there's not a lot of canon detail for the city's infrastructure besides what probably would exist in a major fantasy city), if anyone's interested in passing them my way; also, assuming I'm not stepping on any legal issues Palladium would have regarding fan creations (non-canon, of course), would it be easier to put what I come up with on my DeviantArt, or just post Imgur private links as I have in the past?
Have a good one, mes amis!
-Boe.
Re: Wolfen cities
I'm pretty sure that they'd have handled Wolven Wars exactly like the Coalition vs Tolkeen series and it would have sucked. There is so much that is 2 decades overdue that there was no need to jack up the world yet. Old Kingdom and Lopan just as a start.
Re: Wolfen cities
For me, I'd like to see more detailing of Wolfen cities, culture, trade/politics and stuff. Wolfen War? That could be left to GMs for now.
Good show, old boy. I'm Looking forward to seeing how it comes out. Putting it up on Deviantart sounds good to me.
Boethermsbrukan wrote:The good news is that I've picked a couple of different 'locations' for the snapshot pics I've got in the barrel-to-do, and I'm planning on doing at least one in the next handful of days.
Good show, old boy. I'm Looking forward to seeing how it comes out. Putting it up on Deviantart sounds good to me.
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Boethermsbrukan
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Re: Wolfen cities
Jerell wrote:Good show, old boy. I'm Looking forward to seeing how it comes out. Putting it up on Deviantart sounds good to me.
Jerell, good evening!
I'm sorry I haven't got to at least one of the pics yet; I had some dental surgery yesterday afternoon, and while my awesome Tooth-Doc (^_^) packed me with anaesthetic, and it wasn't uber painful after the 'caine wore off, I'm still a bit fuzzy-headed while the last of the sedation runs around my system, along with an occasional Motrin when needed, and I'm about halfway through the antibiotic regimen I started this past Friday (the operating area of one of my extracted teeth was badly infected, but the worst of it was cleared up by the time my Doc did the deed) and it's making me both sleepy and a touch nauseous. The good news is that the infection is mostly cleared up, and the operative area is only mildly touch sensitive now, and the nausea has kept me from snacking on things (crumbly little pieces things) before the area's proper healed.
Anyway, I have the visuals for two pics in my head, and I'll try to get to at least one by the weekend. Have done a few new pictures (unrelated to Palladium's work, I mean) in the last handful of weeks, although the last one was prior to my antibiotics and surgery. Thanks for sticking with me as you have, J!
-Boe.
Re: Wolfen cities
Hiya Whiskey-jack,
Given the size of the palladium cities you have to assume one of two options: either magical infrastucture or engineering infrastructure of at least Imperial Roman standard (Vespasian or Titus level, at least). Wolfen don't have a big or long magical history, and recently underwent a huge military redevelopment (from tribal armies to standing Roman forces in one generation??), so I have the bulk of their cities (exceptions listed below) akin to the Roman frontier settlements along/near the Rhine or Dacia from the 1st Century CE. Buckets of stuff on the Net for you to use. Just remember to double the size (Wolfen are rather large) and triple the food storage areas. Exceptions I have are Primus (their huge city at their far western border), Shadow-fall (partially crafted by magic and the capital), Elf-home (self-explanatory, tree dwelling back to nature types), and The Dyke (the southern border to the Contested Zone) which is a huge earth and wood wall (shades of Offa's Dyke, on steroids) with multiple military and trade towns along it's length.
In fact, building impressive cities in the Roman style is one of the big driving goals for the central government.
Of course, all the human kingdoms want to know who in hades taught them all this Roman stuff........... Not that there is an adventuring story arc there........
Given the size of the palladium cities you have to assume one of two options: either magical infrastucture or engineering infrastructure of at least Imperial Roman standard (Vespasian or Titus level, at least). Wolfen don't have a big or long magical history, and recently underwent a huge military redevelopment (from tribal armies to standing Roman forces in one generation??), so I have the bulk of their cities (exceptions listed below) akin to the Roman frontier settlements along/near the Rhine or Dacia from the 1st Century CE. Buckets of stuff on the Net for you to use. Just remember to double the size (Wolfen are rather large) and triple the food storage areas. Exceptions I have are Primus (their huge city at their far western border), Shadow-fall (partially crafted by magic and the capital), Elf-home (self-explanatory, tree dwelling back to nature types), and The Dyke (the southern border to the Contested Zone) which is a huge earth and wood wall (shades of Offa's Dyke, on steroids) with multiple military and trade towns along it's length.
In fact, building impressive cities in the Roman style is one of the big driving goals for the central government.
Of course, all the human kingdoms want to know who in hades taught them all this Roman stuff........... Not that there is an adventuring story arc there........
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SittingBull
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Re: Wolfen cities
Don't know if its been mentioned of not, but with Wolfen having double knees, there wouldn't be any chairs except maybe for non-Wolfen or travelers. The Wolfen, as I see it, would all use stools .
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Library Ogre
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Re: Wolfen cities
SittingBull wrote:Don't know if its been mentioned of not, but with Wolfen having double knees, there wouldn't be any chairs except maybe for non-Wolfen or travelers. The Wolfen, as I see it, would all use stools .
I've talked about a number of problems with wolfen anatomy over the years. They're digitigrade (toe-walkers, or the "double knees"; that second knee is analogous to our ankle), and they also have tails. Even if they found horses large enough, they'd be unlikely to use a human-style saddle... they're more likely to stand up on the back of a mammoth.
You also get into interesting questions about their music when you consider the prevalence of hairlips and the difficulty of playing a stringed instrument with knives strapped to your hands.
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When I see someone "fisking" these days my first inclination is to think "That person doesn't have much to say, and says it in volume." -John Scalzi
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SittingBull
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Re: Wolfen cities
Yes, Wolfen are (for the most part) a walking race. Good point on the music playing. Perhaps Wolfen music would be based on singing/howling?
"Understanding is a three-edged sword."
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"You don't understand, so you find excuses."
Doctor Who
"Peace has made you weak. Victory has defeated you."
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Re: Wolfen cities
Greetings and Salutations. With stringed instruments, I'd imagine they could use something like a guitar pick (plectrum). By using a tool, their claws shouldn't be an issue. They can also play the drums, "Squeeze-Boxes," and "Faerie Bells." Farewell and safe journeys for now.
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Official PDF versions of Rifter #45, #52, and #55 can be found at DriveThruRPG.
Rifter #45; Of Bows & Arrows (Archery; expanding rules and abilities)
Rifter #52; From Ruins to Runes (Living Rune Weapons; playable characters and NPC)
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Whiskeyjack
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Re: Wolfen cities
I'm just starting to get my oldest son to try roleplaying. He picked a Wolfen mind mage. When I asked him his height he immediatley chose 10'. When I told him he would be two feet taller than our ceiling he quickly changed it to 7. They're quite a physically impressive race and face many challenges in the Palladium world, especially outside of their empire.
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Re: Wolfen cities
Very true, the biggest obstacle being they can't ride horses. So that's your first big obstacle in a mixed traveling group that has a wolfen.
"Understanding is a three-edged sword."
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"You don't understand, so you find excuses."
Doctor Who
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Doctor Who
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Re: Wolfen cities
SittingBull wrote:Very true, the biggest obstacle being they can't ride horses. So that's your first big obstacle in a mixed traveling group that has a wolfen.
Depends on how big a horse you have available
There are some plenty big horses out there....especially if your only 7' tall.....
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Whiskeyjack
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Re: Wolfen cities
A percheron could carry all but the largest wolfen.
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SittingBull
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Re: Wolfen cities
Percheron?
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Kosh from Babylon 5
"You don't understand, so you find excuses."
Doctor Who
"Peace has made you weak. Victory has defeated you."
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"You don't understand, so you find excuses."
Doctor Who
"Peace has made you weak. Victory has defeated you."
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Whiskeyjack
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Re: Wolfen cities
Large breed of draft horse. Stand around 6-7' at the shoulder.
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Re: Wolfen cities
Remember wolfen cant use saddles like humans use though.
"Understanding is a three-edged sword."
Kosh from Babylon 5
"You don't understand, so you find excuses."
Doctor Who
"Peace has made you weak. Victory has defeated you."
Bane
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Doctor Who
"Peace has made you weak. Victory has defeated you."
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Whiskeyjack
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Re: Wolfen cities
I'm sure they can develop a saddle they can use.
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Soldier of Od
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Re: Wolfen cities
Whiskeyjack wrote:I'm sure they can develop a saddle they can use.
Yeah, I don't see a reason why wolfen couldn't sit on a saddle like anyone else. Might need a minor modification, might just do as is.
We used to have a rule that wolfen could ride a horse only if it were a 'warhorse' or 'workhorse' due to their size. That was really just so my wolfen palladin could do some lancing. Although we implemented this rule whilst playing first edition PFRPG, back when wolfen were only 7-9ft tall instead of 10.
As for the original post regarding Wolfen Cities, someone on these boards called The Necromancer King did a write up of three wolfen tribes and four wolfen cities over ten years ago: the Long Knife, Ice Eyes and the January Magic Tribe/Havea. I copied them onto my computer and have been using them ever since. They are on here somewhere but I still can't work out how to make links, so may be someone else can find them and link to them so that everyone can see?! Thanks!
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Re: Wolfen cities
Soldier of Od wrote:Whiskeyjack wrote:I'm sure they can develop a saddle they can use.
Yeah, I don't see a reason why wolfen couldn't sit on a saddle like anyone else. Might need a minor modification, might just do as is.
We used to have a rule that wolfen could ride a horse only if it were a 'warhorse' or 'workhorse' due to their size. That was really just so my wolfen palladin could do some lancing. Although we implemented this rule whilst playing first edition PFRPG, back when wolfen were only 7-9ft tall instead of 10.
As for the original post regarding Wolfen Cities, someone on these boards called The Necromancer King did a write up of three wolfen tribes and four wolfen cities over ten years ago: the Long Knife, Ice Eyes and the January Magic Tribe/Havea. I copied them onto my computer and have been using them ever since. They are on here somewhere but I still can't work out how to make links, so may be someone else can find them and link to them so that everyone can see?! Thanks!
http://palladium-megaverse.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=31144
Re: Wolfen cities
Greetings and Salutations. Links for Soldier of Od (including the one Dark Elf linked as well as the other two, keeping all three in one post):
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=31144
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=31106
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=31063
Hope that helps. Farewell and safe journeys.
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=31144
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=31106
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=31063
Hope that helps. Farewell and safe journeys.
Living the Fantasy (fan website)
Rifter #45; Of Bows & Arrows (Archery; expanding rules and abilities)
Rifter #52; From Ruins to Runes (Living Rune Weapons; playable characters and NPC)
Rifter #55; Home Away From Home (Quorian Culture; expanded from PF Book 9: Baalgor Wastelands)
Official PDF versions of Rifter #45, #52, and #55 can be found at DriveThruRPG.
Rifter #45; Of Bows & Arrows (Archery; expanding rules and abilities)
Rifter #52; From Ruins to Runes (Living Rune Weapons; playable characters and NPC)
Rifter #55; Home Away From Home (Quorian Culture; expanded from PF Book 9: Baalgor Wastelands)
Official PDF versions of Rifter #45, #52, and #55 can be found at DriveThruRPG.
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Re: Wolfen cities
Soldier of Od wrote:Whiskeyjack wrote:I'm sure they can develop a saddle they can use.
Yeah, I don't see a reason why wolfen couldn't sit on a saddle like anyone else. Might need a minor modification, might just do as is.
Saddles, as designed, assume you have 2 limbs. Wolfen have 3 limbs, and digitigrade legs, meaning the standard horse saddle is not going to work for them, nor will most of the other accoutrements of horseback riding. Alternate versions might be developed, sure, but it's more than just cutting a hole in the cantle and threading in a tail.
There's a reason why the humans of Havea are most of the Wolfen Empire's cavalry.
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When I see someone "fisking" these days my first inclination is to think "That person doesn't have much to say, and says it in volume." -John Scalzi
Happiness is a long block list.
If you don't want to be vilified, don't act like a villain.
The Megaverse runs on vibes.
All Palladium Articles
Mutant Dawn for Savage Worlds!
When I see someone "fisking" these days my first inclination is to think "That person doesn't have much to say, and says it in volume." -John Scalzi
Happiness is a long block list.
If you don't want to be vilified, don't act like a villain.
The Megaverse runs on vibes.
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Mutant Dawn for Savage Worlds!
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eliakon
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Re: Wolfen cities
Mark Hall wrote:Soldier of Od wrote:Whiskeyjack wrote:I'm sure they can develop a saddle they can use.
Yeah, I don't see a reason why wolfen couldn't sit on a saddle like anyone else. Might need a minor modification, might just do as is.
Saddles, as designed, assume you have 2 limbs. Wolfen have 3 limbs, and digitigrade legs, meaning the standard horse saddle is not going to work for them, nor will most of the other accoutrements of horseback riding. Alternate versions might be developed, sure, but it's more than just cutting a hole in the cantle and threading in a tail.
There's a reason why the humans of Havea are most of the Wolfen Empire's cavalry.
Which would work if we didn't have Riding: Exotic that works on Giant flies, Pegasus, Zombie lizards, air elementals, mutant deer, and everything else.....many of which wont work with the regular accoutrements of riding either.....
So it seems that unless we are willing to say that the Wolfen for some reason have to follow the laws of physics closely when literally no one else does......
I am going to have to say that it is probably going to work.
Or we can just get rid of Exotic, make new riding skills and tacks for each non-standard mount.....but then Wolfen are just back to 'if a human can ride a giant bug with out a problem why cant I ride a horse'
The rules are not a bludgeon with which to hammer a character into a game. They are a guide to how a group of friends can get together to weave a collective story that entertains everyone involved. We forget that at our peril.
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Re: Wolfen cities
eliakon wrote:Mark Hall wrote:Soldier of Od wrote:Whiskeyjack wrote:I'm sure they can develop a saddle they can use.
Yeah, I don't see a reason why wolfen couldn't sit on a saddle like anyone else. Might need a minor modification, might just do as is.
Saddles, as designed, assume you have 2 limbs. Wolfen have 3 limbs, and digitigrade legs, meaning the standard horse saddle is not going to work for them, nor will most of the other accoutrements of horseback riding. Alternate versions might be developed, sure, but it's more than just cutting a hole in the cantle and threading in a tail.
There's a reason why the humans of Havea are most of the Wolfen Empire's cavalry.
Which would work if we didn't have Riding: Exotic that works on Giant flies, Pegasus, Zombie lizards, air elementals, mutant deer, and everything else.....many of which wont work with the regular accoutrements of riding either.....
So it seems that unless we are willing to say that the Wolfen for some reason have to follow the laws of physics closely when literally no one else does......
I am going to have to say that it is probably going to work.
Or we can just get rid of Exotic, make new riding skills and tacks for each non-standard mount.....but then Wolfen are just back to 'if a human can ride a giant bug with out a problem why cant I ride a horse'
Not following you Eliakon.
"Understanding is a three-edged sword."
Kosh from Babylon 5
"You don't understand, so you find excuses."
Doctor Who
"Peace has made you weak. Victory has defeated you."
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Doctor Who
"Peace has made you weak. Victory has defeated you."
Bane
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Whiskeyjack
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Re: Wolfen cities
He's saying that pointing out the physical issues with a wolfen riding in a saddle due to a tail is silly if you allow something like a pegasus, which could in no way fly. As well the fact that a human can take horsemanship exotic and ride beasts a variable as a pegasus or a giant fly under the one skill, but a wolfen can't ride a horse because of the tail.
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Re: Wolfen cities
Pegasus fly because they are magical. Wolfen are not.
"Understanding is a three-edged sword."
Kosh from Babylon 5
"You don't understand, so you find excuses."
Doctor Who
"Peace has made you weak. Victory has defeated you."
Bane
Kosh from Babylon 5
"You don't understand, so you find excuses."
Doctor Who
"Peace has made you weak. Victory has defeated you."
Bane
Re: Wolfen cities
Greetings and Salutations. Actually, I think his point was just because a traditional human horse saddle won't be effect, that shouldn't be a deciding factor. For example:
Will a normal horse saddle work for riding an Elephant (Exotic)?
Will a normal horse saddle work for riding a giant insect (Exotic)?
Do you think the Eandroth who ride Silonar (Exotic) use human horse saddles?
If your answer is no (as I'm fairly sure it should be), then the fact that Wolfen wouldn't be able to use a traditional human horse saddle should be irrelevant. Wolfen aren't reliant upon humans to craft their items, so since they're not human ... and they have different physiology, they wouldn't be trying to craft horse saddles that work for humans ... and then getting annoyed when their physiology is ill-suited for the human saddle. Also, look in Monsters & Animals at the picture of Eandroth (tails and their legs), and note they also ride Silonar (the picture even shows them in a saddle). I can't speak for the logistics of the picture (I really don't know enough about saddles and physiology to do so), but Palladium seems to find the concept acceptable. There is, of course, a size difference between Eandroth and Wolfen.
I figure the size and weight is the main reason that Palladium doesn't describe them using horses much. The Palladium World doesn't have all the types of horses Earth has, which is mostly a result of humans breeding them for specific tasks. Unless the Wolfen put in the time and effort to breed large and strong draft style horses, they might just not exist on their world. I'd imagine a small Wolfen riding an average horse more like a full grown adult human male riding on a pony. Yes, you can do it, but neither you nor the pony are probably going to enjoy it very much. A large Wolfen would probably be out of the question. I'm not opposed to Wolfen using mounts, I just don't think they'd be looking at horses to fill that role.
Beyond that, don't forget they have a horror factor. Also keep in mind what a horse's natural instinct would be if encountering a wolf. Wolfen are much bigger and walk on two legs, not sure that will really comfort the horse. With time and effort (and breeding) you could probably get a horse to accept Wolfen riders. But that doesn't mean the Wolfen are going to put in that time and effort, for an animal that may not be the best suited for them in the first place. Now I'm not a horse expert (my wife loves them, and I know what little I do because of her), so take that for what you will. That's the way I see it though. Farewell and safe journeys for now.
Will a normal horse saddle work for riding an Elephant (Exotic)?
Will a normal horse saddle work for riding a giant insect (Exotic)?
Do you think the Eandroth who ride Silonar (Exotic) use human horse saddles?
If your answer is no (as I'm fairly sure it should be), then the fact that Wolfen wouldn't be able to use a traditional human horse saddle should be irrelevant. Wolfen aren't reliant upon humans to craft their items, so since they're not human ... and they have different physiology, they wouldn't be trying to craft horse saddles that work for humans ... and then getting annoyed when their physiology is ill-suited for the human saddle. Also, look in Monsters & Animals at the picture of Eandroth (tails and their legs), and note they also ride Silonar (the picture even shows them in a saddle). I can't speak for the logistics of the picture (I really don't know enough about saddles and physiology to do so), but Palladium seems to find the concept acceptable. There is, of course, a size difference between Eandroth and Wolfen.
I figure the size and weight is the main reason that Palladium doesn't describe them using horses much. The Palladium World doesn't have all the types of horses Earth has, which is mostly a result of humans breeding them for specific tasks. Unless the Wolfen put in the time and effort to breed large and strong draft style horses, they might just not exist on their world. I'd imagine a small Wolfen riding an average horse more like a full grown adult human male riding on a pony. Yes, you can do it, but neither you nor the pony are probably going to enjoy it very much. A large Wolfen would probably be out of the question. I'm not opposed to Wolfen using mounts, I just don't think they'd be looking at horses to fill that role.
Beyond that, don't forget they have a horror factor. Also keep in mind what a horse's natural instinct would be if encountering a wolf. Wolfen are much bigger and walk on two legs, not sure that will really comfort the horse. With time and effort (and breeding) you could probably get a horse to accept Wolfen riders. But that doesn't mean the Wolfen are going to put in that time and effort, for an animal that may not be the best suited for them in the first place. Now I'm not a horse expert (my wife loves them, and I know what little I do because of her), so take that for what you will. That's the way I see it though. Farewell and safe journeys for now.
Living the Fantasy (fan website)
Rifter #45; Of Bows & Arrows (Archery; expanding rules and abilities)
Rifter #52; From Ruins to Runes (Living Rune Weapons; playable characters and NPC)
Rifter #55; Home Away From Home (Quorian Culture; expanded from PF Book 9: Baalgor Wastelands)
Official PDF versions of Rifter #45, #52, and #55 can be found at DriveThruRPG.
Rifter #45; Of Bows & Arrows (Archery; expanding rules and abilities)
Rifter #52; From Ruins to Runes (Living Rune Weapons; playable characters and NPC)
Rifter #55; Home Away From Home (Quorian Culture; expanded from PF Book 9: Baalgor Wastelands)
Official PDF versions of Rifter #45, #52, and #55 can be found at DriveThruRPG.
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SittingBull
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Re: Wolfen cities
Prysus wrote:Greetings and Salutations. Actually, I think his point was just because a traditional human horse saddle won't be effect, that shouldn't be a deciding factor. For example:
Will a normal horse saddle work for riding an Elephant (Exotic)?
Will a normal horse saddle work for riding a giant insect (Exotic)?
Do you think the Eandroth who ride Silonar (Exotic) use human horse saddles?
If your answer is no (as I'm fairly sure it should be), then the fact that Wolfen wouldn't be able to use a traditional human horse saddle should be irrelevant. Wolfen aren't reliant upon humans to craft their items, so since they're not human ... and they have different physiology, they wouldn't be trying to craft horse saddles that work for humans ... and then getting annoyed when their physiology is ill-suited for the human saddle. Also, look in Monsters & Animals at the picture of Eandroth (tails and their legs), and note they also ride Silonar (the picture even shows them in a saddle). I can't speak for the logistics of the picture (I really don't know enough about saddles and physiology to do so), but Palladium seems to find the concept acceptable. There is, of course, a size difference between Eandroth and Wolfen.
I figure the size and weight is the main reason that Palladium doesn't describe them using horses much. The Palladium World doesn't have all the types of horses Earth has, which is mostly a result of humans breeding them for specific tasks. Unless the Wolfen put in the time and effort to breed large and strong draft style horses, they might just not exist on their world. I'd imagine a small Wolfen riding an average horse more like a full grown adult human male riding on a pony. Yes, you can do it, but neither you nor the pony are probably going to enjoy it very much. A large Wolfen would probably be out of the question. I'm not opposed to Wolfen using mounts, I just don't think they'd be looking at horses to fill that role.
Beyond that, don't forget they have a horror factor. Also keep in mind what a horse's natural instinct would be if encountering a wolf. Wolfen are much bigger and walk on two legs, not sure that will really comfort the horse. With time and effort (and breeding) you could probably get a horse to accept Wolfen riders. But that doesn't mean the Wolfen are going to put in that time and effort, for an animal that may not be the best suited for them in the first place. Now I'm not a horse expert (my wife loves them, and I know what little I do because of her), so take that for what you will. That's the way I see it though. Farewell and safe journeys for now.
Good point on the horse being afraid of wolves. Horses can't even be around dead wolves without having their eye covered. So, unless it was trained out of them, any horse that could and did carry a wolfen would have to have blinders on, so they wouldn't see the wolfen.
"Understanding is a three-edged sword."
Kosh from Babylon 5
"You don't understand, so you find excuses."
Doctor Who
"Peace has made you weak. Victory has defeated you."
Bane
Kosh from Babylon 5
"You don't understand, so you find excuses."
Doctor Who
"Peace has made you weak. Victory has defeated you."
Bane
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Re: Wolfen cities
Here's the thing... even if you say "Oh, wolfen just made wolfen specific saddles", you've still got to figure out what those saddles look like. Given the lack of dexterity we've seen from wolfen tails, and the fact that they almost always line up with the spine (within about 30-45*), wolfen riding horses are going to have problems sitting because they have a slightly bendable broom handle attached to their butts.
It's not a matter of "Oh, they came up with a slightly different version". It's a matter of "given their size and anatomy, it makes more sense for a wolfen to ride two horses, with a foot on each, rather than try to sit on one."
It's not a matter of "Oh, they came up with a slightly different version". It's a matter of "given their size and anatomy, it makes more sense for a wolfen to ride two horses, with a foot on each, rather than try to sit on one."
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When I see someone "fisking" these days my first inclination is to think "That person doesn't have much to say, and says it in volume." -John Scalzi
Happiness is a long block list.
If you don't want to be vilified, don't act like a villain.
The Megaverse runs on vibes.
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eliakon
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Re: Wolfen cities
SittingBull wrote:Prysus wrote:Greetings and Salutations. Actually, I think his point was just because a traditional human horse saddle won't be effect, that shouldn't be a deciding factor. For example:
Will a normal horse saddle work for riding an Elephant (Exotic)?
Will a normal horse saddle work for riding a giant insect (Exotic)?
Do you think the Eandroth who ride Silonar (Exotic) use human horse saddles?
If your answer is no (as I'm fairly sure it should be), then the fact that Wolfen wouldn't be able to use a traditional human horse saddle should be irrelevant. Wolfen aren't reliant upon humans to craft their items, so since they're not human ... and they have different physiology, they wouldn't be trying to craft horse saddles that work for humans ... and then getting annoyed when their physiology is ill-suited for the human saddle. Also, look in Monsters & Animals at the picture of Eandroth (tails and their legs), and note they also ride Silonar (the picture even shows them in a saddle). I can't speak for the logistics of the picture (I really don't know enough about saddles and physiology to do so), but Palladium seems to find the concept acceptable. There is, of course, a size difference between Eandroth and Wolfen.
I figure the size and weight is the main reason that Palladium doesn't describe them using horses much. The Palladium World doesn't have all the types of horses Earth has, which is mostly a result of humans breeding them for specific tasks. Unless the Wolfen put in the time and effort to breed large and strong draft style horses, they might just not exist on their world. I'd imagine a small Wolfen riding an average horse more like a full grown adult human male riding on a pony. Yes, you can do it, but neither you nor the pony are probably going to enjoy it very much. A large Wolfen would probably be out of the question. I'm not opposed to Wolfen using mounts, I just don't think they'd be looking at horses to fill that role.
Beyond that, don't forget they have a horror factor. Also keep in mind what a horse's natural instinct would be if encountering a wolf. Wolfen are much bigger and walk on two legs, not sure that will really comfort the horse. With time and effort (and breeding) you could probably get a horse to accept Wolfen riders. But that doesn't mean the Wolfen are going to put in that time and effort, for an animal that may not be the best suited for them in the first place. Now I'm not a horse expert (my wife loves them, and I know what little I do because of her), so take that for what you will. That's the way I see it though. Farewell and safe journeys for now.
Good point on the horse being afraid of wolves. Horses can't even be around dead wolves without having their eye covered. So, unless it was trained out of them, any horse that could and did carry a wolfen would have to have blinders on, so they wouldn't see the wolfen.
So warhorses....like every single knight and adventurer seems to have (since there seems to be no implied problem with horses being afraid of the normal things that would make a horse bolt in the real world....like the smell of blood, cries of wounded creatures, etc....never mind magic (they supposedly can sense it and fear it)....and it would be rather silly and to me unfair to single the Wolfen out for being the only people in the entire world that have this problem....ever....)
Basically the question is "Do you think that the Wolfen have bothered to breed large horses or not" (Horses in the real world have been breed that should be sufficient for the task for all but the largest Wolfen)
The rules are not a bludgeon with which to hammer a character into a game. They are a guide to how a group of friends can get together to weave a collective story that entertains everyone involved. We forget that at our peril.
Edmund Burke wrote:The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."
Re: Wolfen cities
eliakon wrote:So warhorses....like every single knight and adventurer seems to have (since there seems to be no implied problem with horses being afraid of the normal things that would make a horse bolt in the real world....like the smell of blood, cries of wounded creatures, etc....never mind magic (they supposedly can sense it and fear it)....and it would be rather silly and to me unfair to single the Wolfen out for being the only people in the entire world that have this problem....ever....)
Greetings and Salutations. War Horses are not immune to Horror Factor, they merely have a bonus. The book also specifically states they're trained this way, and NOT found in the wild. It also states things like "usually" shows composure, which means not always. That means they can indeed freak out about things, we just don't have any rules on this beyond their bonus to Horror Factor.
eliakon wrote:Basically the question is "Do you think that the Wolfen have bothered to breed large horses or not" (Horses in the real world have been breed that should be sufficient for the task for all but the largest Wolfen)
Do I think it's possible? Yes. Do I think it's likely they've done so yet? No. For starters, the books haven't given us any indication that the Wolfen have done this (at least none that I'm aware of). If you know of some reference that shows Wolfen doing all this stuff with horses, let me know.
More importantly (to me), Wolfen have had several issues during their development. They're also strong and naturally fast, which helps to compensate for some of the benefits a horse provides. Then you have to factor in that the Wolfen would need to breed the horses BEFORE they were even useful to them (at least as mounts). Humans, as far as I'm aware, had benefit from horses normally, then breed them for a greater benefit at certain tasks. Horses, from what I can tell, just wouldn't have been much use to Wolfen without taking the time to breed and raise them in the hopes that maybe, one day, it'll pay off. I'm more inclined to believe that Wolfen would find an animal that's already useful to them, and then breed from there.
Also keep in mind while humans have done many things in THIS world, that's not necessarily true of the Palladium World. Look at the dog breeds, and you'll notice it's far more limited than all those found on Earth. A war horse is the LARGEST horse detailed on the Palladium World. That's human breed and trained, and not in the wild. After that we drop to about 5 feet. So with the exception of their battles with humans, this is about the size of horse a Wolfen is likely to encounter. So for the smallest Wolfen (at 7 feet), that's like a 6 foot human adult looking at a pony (about 4 1/2 feet, which is on the tall end for pony stats). Now ask yourself if when you see that 4 1/2 foot tall pony if your thought would be: "You know, I bet with time and patience, one day I, or possibly my descendants, could ride something like that. I know what I'm going to spend the rest of my life doing!" The larger that Wolfen, the less and less appealing that would probably even look.
Again, I don't mind the idea of Wolfen having mounts. I actually LIKE the idea. But I think trying to put Wolfen on horses is a human mindset, not a Wolfen one. Farewell and safe journeys for now.
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Rifter #45; Of Bows & Arrows (Archery; expanding rules and abilities)
Rifter #52; From Ruins to Runes (Living Rune Weapons; playable characters and NPC)
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Official PDF versions of Rifter #45, #52, and #55 can be found at DriveThruRPG.
Rifter #45; Of Bows & Arrows (Archery; expanding rules and abilities)
Rifter #52; From Ruins to Runes (Living Rune Weapons; playable characters and NPC)
Rifter #55; Home Away From Home (Quorian Culture; expanded from PF Book 9: Baalgor Wastelands)
Official PDF versions of Rifter #45, #52, and #55 can be found at DriveThruRPG.
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SittingBull
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Re: Wolfen cities
Mark Hall wrote:Here's the thing... even if you say "Oh, wolfen just made wolfen specific saddles", you've still got to figure out what those saddles look like. Given the lack of dexterity we've seen from wolfen tails, and the fact that they almost always line up with the spine (within about 30-45*), wolfen riding horses are going to have problems sitting because they have a slightly bendable broom handle attached to their butts.
It's not a matter of "Oh, they came up with a slightly different version". It's a matter of "given their size and anatomy, it makes more sense for a wolfen to ride two horses, with a foot on each, rather than try to sit on one."
Could they ride side saddle or turned toward one side or the other at a 45 degree angle?
"Understanding is a three-edged sword."
Kosh from Babylon 5
"You don't understand, so you find excuses."
Doctor Who
"Peace has made you weak. Victory has defeated you."
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Kosh from Babylon 5
"You don't understand, so you find excuses."
Doctor Who
"Peace has made you weak. Victory has defeated you."
Bane
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eliakon
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Re: Wolfen cities
Mark Hall wrote:Here's the thing... even if you say "Oh, wolfen just made wolfen specific saddles", you've still got to figure out what those saddles look like. Given the lack of dexterity we've seen from wolfen tails, and the fact that they almost always line up with the spine (within about 30-45*), wolfen riding horses are going to have problems sitting because they have a slightly bendable broom handle attached to their butts.
It's not a matter of "Oh, they came up with a slightly different version". It's a matter of "given their size and anatomy, it makes more sense for a wolfen to ride two horses, with a foot on each, rather than try to sit on one."
I think that ship has not only sailed, it has picked up a load of cargo, come back, sold it and set out on a second voyage.
Lets see....
-The Cyclopse raise Gryphons as riding animals.
-Yema are a preferred mount of necromancers (even though there is no where to actually ride it)
-Eandroth (Built just like the Wolfen, only more so) are such good riders that the entire RACE has Riding: Exotic +30% because of their love of Silonars
-Rock Buzzers? Yah perfectly legitimate mount
The game already explicitly allows races built just like the wolfen to ride things, and it allows things bigger than them to ride mounts....the same mounts that humans ride. I would say that that is pretty good support for "Wolfen can ride horses"
THAT said, I would personally not have much cavalry....they are based on Rome so walking legions is the trope not mounted knights.....but its perfectly possible.
The rules are not a bludgeon with which to hammer a character into a game. They are a guide to how a group of friends can get together to weave a collective story that entertains everyone involved. We forget that at our peril.
Edmund Burke wrote:The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."
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Whiskeyjack
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Re: Wolfen cities
The only real stopper I can see for a lack of horses in the Wolfen Empire (they can trade for warhorses), is climate. Horses aren't really a boreal forest kind of animal, and the winters would be especially harsh on them. I personally envision them riding grizzly bears.
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SittingBull
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Re: Wolfen cities
When I ran palladium they just traveled on foot when going over land.
"Understanding is a three-edged sword."
Kosh from Babylon 5
"You don't understand, so you find excuses."
Doctor Who
"Peace has made you weak. Victory has defeated you."
Bane
Kosh from Babylon 5
"You don't understand, so you find excuses."
Doctor Who
"Peace has made you weak. Victory has defeated you."
Bane