Supernatural strength.

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Supernatural strength.

Unread post by pblackcrow »

This is for my housemate, Shawn. For some reason his posts have to be approved, and he is not happy with the wait. Please explain how supernatural strength works in PFRPG. I tried, but fell short. He's trying to get the hang of the system, he's going to try to GM a solo adventure for me later on this week.
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Re: Supernatural strength.

Unread post by jaymz »

Well.....Supernatural PS basically increases the characters lifting ability dramatically for the most part. It also has an increased damage table for hth combat.

not sure what else he wants to know?
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Re: Supernatural strength.

Unread post by ShadowHawk »

jaymz wrote:Well.....Supernatural PS basically increases the characters lifting ability dramatically for the most part. It also has an increased damage table for hth combat.

not sure what else he wants to know?


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Re: Supernatural strength.

Unread post by Thinyser »

Its pretty clearly explained in the books. Maybe if we knew what points you don't find clear or some specific examples of its use that occurred in game that you need help understanding how they would (or did) work we could do better in helping you complete your understanding.
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Re: Supernatural strength.

Unread post by ShadowHawk »

Thinyser wrote:Its pretty clearly explained in the books. Maybe if we knew what points you don't find clear or some specific examples of its use that occurred in game that you need help understanding how they would (or did) work we could do better in helping you complete your understanding.

I guess I'm just used to it in Rifts. Not palladium fantasy. So I am having a bit of trouble with it.
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Re: Supernatural strength.

Unread post by Library Ogre »

Basically, Supernatural Strength means you're incredibly strong. In practice, this means you lift more and do more damage; traditionally, you damage from Supernatural Strength is added as a bonus to whatever you do from your weapons, or used flat if you use no weapons. I have usually seen it that you also get bonus damage on the normal PS table, as well.

E.g.

If you have a 2d6 damage from your Supernatural PS, and a +5 because of your PS (I am pulling numbers from thin air), and are wielding a sword which does 2d6 damage, you will usually do 4d6+5 damage.

I don't recall if it is explicitly in the rules or not, but I have often seen the rule that if you do too much damage (due to your awesome strength), the weapon might bend or break.
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Re: Supernatural strength.

Unread post by Lukterran »

Mark Hall wrote:Basically, Supernatural Strength means you're incredibly strong. In practice, this means you lift more and do more damage; traditionally, you damage from Supernatural Strength is added as a bonus to whatever you do from your weapons, or used flat if you use no weapons. I have usually seen it that you also get bonus damage on the normal PS table, as well.

E.g.

If you have a 2d6 damage from your Supernatural PS, and a +5 because of your PS (I am pulling numbers from thin air), and are wielding a sword which does 2d6 damage, you will usually do 4d6+5 damage.

I don't recall if it is explicitly in the rules or not, but I have often seen the rule that if you do too much damage (due to your awesome strength), the weapon might bend or break.


The book reads that you replace the damage from the weapon with the supernatural damage table and use which ever is higher. However, I always have done it your way Mark. It seemed stupid that you could do equal damage with your sword or your fist. Made using a weapon for a supernatural strength character almost useles, which was no logical.

Page 18 PF MAIN Book
"Supernatural Damage and Hand Weapons
When wielding a hand weapon, such as swords, clubs and knives, a supernatural being inflicts either the weapon damage plus P.S. damage bonus or its basic hand to hand damage (see previous table) plus P.S. damage bonus, whichever is greater."
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Re: Supernatural strength.

Unread post by ShadowHawk »

So, throwing say a tree would be possible if you were a giant with the strength of 30? But for how long? And how much damage would it do to a wall? That's the thing I hate about the game. Not everything is as cut and dry as I would like it to be.

Plus I am sorry, but I am going with Dragon Magazine, issue 13, page 5 on this one. The height and weights are NOWHERE near appropriate for the cyclops!
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Re: Supernatural strength.

Unread post by Library Ogre »

IIRC, there's a rule on how far you can throw irregular objects (like trees)... I think it is in the description of the PS attribute, and is based on your PS... but I can't recall what it is, or if it's actually there.

As a default, I would have it do your supernatural strength damage (per the rules).
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Re: Supernatural strength.

Unread post by Zenvis »

I thought it was half distance because it isn't designed for throwing. I'll have to check my books.
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Re: Supernatural strength.

Unread post by Glistam »

Use the damage/weight formula from the Telekinesis: Super psionic power for how much damage the thrown object does - add Supernatural strength damage and/or P.S. bonus damage as you see fit.
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Re: Supernatural strength.

Unread post by Prysus »

Greetings and Salutations. The rules for throwing objects (Normal and Supernatural Strength) can be found on Page 17, after the basic notes of how much can be lifted, and before the Movement and Exertion info which is before the Supernatural Strength & Damage chart. So how far it can be thrown and how much damage it would do are both detailed in the rules on page 17.

So to best break it down ...

How much can the character lift? Answer on page 17.
How far can he throw an object? Answer on page 17.
How much damage does it do? Answer for thrown objects on page 17 and punch damage on page 17-18.
How much damage with a hand held weapon? Answer on page 18 (along with rules for breaking weapons due to strain).
How long can a heavy item be lifted? While the answer seems like it should be based upon P.E., there are no rules for this, and the closest we have are the rules for Movement and Exertion on page 17 (which are based on an hour by hour system).

Though I think what I'm most confused by is why Supernatural Strength in Rifts makes sense but somehow becomes confusing in Palladium Fantasy (since the concepts are more or less the same, and the main difference being punch damage inflicting M.D. in Rifts). Is there something in Palladium Fantasy that makes you feel this is entirely different from the Supernatural Strength in Rifts?

I'll be happy to help, if possible, but right now I don't really understand what the problem is. Farewell and safe journeys for now.
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Re: Supernatural strength.

Unread post by Thinyser »

Prysus wrote:Though I think what I'm most confused by is why Supernatural Strength in Rifts makes sense but somehow becomes confusing in Palladium Fantasy (since the concepts are more or less the same, and the main difference being punch damage inflicting M.D. in Rifts). Is there something in Palladium Fantasy that makes you feel this is entirely different from the Supernatural Strength in Rifts?

I'll be happy to help, if possible, but right now I don't really understand what the problem is. Farewell and safe journeys for now.

These were very close to my thoughts as well.
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Re: Supernatural strength.

Unread post by ShadowHawk »

Funny, I didn't see damage from trees listed in the throwing section. Oh well, I will have to house rude it.

I do remember they ruled that a little while ago the that log rolling traps do 2d12 per log, but they ruled it for the weight of the logs. I will have to check with Shannon and see the amount, he keeps track of the stuff in his GM's Journal. I don't want to over do it and I also don't want to under do it as well. But, the same principle should apply.
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Re: Supernatural strength.

Unread post by eliakon »

ShadowHawk wrote:Funny, I didn't see damage from trees listed in the throwing section. Oh well, I will have to house rude it.

I do remember they ruled that a little while ago the that log rolling traps do 2d12 per log, but they ruled it for the weight of the logs. I will have to check with Shannon and see the amount, he keeps track of the stuff in his GM's Journal. I don't want to over do it and I also don't want to under do it as well. But, the same principle should apply.

The Damage and range of a tree is
Damage: 1d6 damage +1d6 damage/20 lbs of weight.
Range: 1' per point of SNPS

So, if you have a SNPS of 30. And you pick up a 1000lb tree you can throw it 30' and you do 51d6
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Re: Supernatural strength.

Unread post by ShadowHawk »

Okay. Right. Starting to makes since now. Thanks.
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Re: Supernatural strength.

Unread post by Thinyser »

ShadowHawk wrote:Funny, I didn't see damage from trees listed in the throwing section. Oh well, I will have to house rude it.
Really man you don't have to be snarky about it because you didn't see the rules that were clearly pointed to, the rules are there you just didn't see them or something. Its not listed as "tree" its under the "heavy thrown objects" rules, and the rules are clear. Its at the top of p.17 2nd column in PFRPG2E. (Note: The math is wrong on a 1000 pound object. Its not 6d6x10, to get this incorrect number they simply took the 6d6 from 100 lbs and multiplied it by 10 instead of using the actual 1d6+1d6 per each 20 lbs formula that is stated which would work out to be 51d6 or 5d6x10 + 1d6. Don't want you to get confused on that.)

I do remember they ruled that a little while ago the that log rolling traps do 2d12 per log, but they ruled it for the weight of the logs. I will have to check with Shannon and see the amount, he keeps track of the stuff in his GM's Journal. I don't want to over do it and I also don't want to under do it as well. But, the same principle should apply.
Not relevant really, since the rule on damage from heavy thrown objects is quite clear but if you prefer to house rule that is OK.
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Re: Supernatural strength.

Unread post by pblackcrow »

Thinyser, our "house rules" for the log trap is what was throwing him off. He forgot that the enemy wizard was very busily casting spells. Though, he had no way of knowing it was weightlessness...And the wizard (who was doing in-flight combat with my mage) was high enough level to where it was an instant casting...In short, he didn't normally have to waist an action to cast it (which meant he could cast it 4 times in 1 melee action). He managed to reduce the weight of the logs to whatever it was, each. So Victor, being Victor, said to just roll 2D12 per log, instead of 4D6 for damage. But then, I killed the enemy wizard before the ones that were in the logs could get out of the logs. Which meant that most of the orcs and goblins were basically screwed. The troll had used a ring of teleport self to moved out of the way. So, yeah...A bit of confusion there as to what was happening and stuff.
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Re: Supernatural strength.

Unread post by Thinyser »

Thats some significant house ruling on spell casting and its associated weightlessness effect, so I can see why he could be confused as to why big heavy logs only did 2d12 damage. That said, he was pointed directly at the actual rules that really govern heavy thrown object damage, which he either didn't have access too, didn't actually read, or read and failed to comprehend (which I doubt since I think a 5 year old could probably comprehend that rule). He does actually have the book to read the rules from, right?

Whatever happened in game aside, he needs to look at the actual rules, read them, and then if he has additional questions ask us for clarification, or ask the GM if he thinks things should have played out differently in game.

Warning: No need to take a personal shot at the poster.
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Re: Supernatural strength.

Unread post by eliakon »

Thinyser wrote:Thats some significant house ruling on spell casting and its associated weightlessness effect, so I can see why he could be confused as to why big heavy logs only did 2d12 damage. That said, he was pointed directly at the actual rules that really govern heavy thrown object damage, which he either didn't have access too, didn't actually read, or read and failed to comprehend (which I doubt since I think a 5 year old could probably comprehend that rule). He does actually have the book to read the rules from, right?

Whatever happened in game aside, he needs to look at the actual rules, read them, and then if he has additional questions ask us for clarification, or ask the GM if he thinks things should have played out differently in game.

No need to insult people there Thinsyer. And as for asking questions.....well you notice that umm that's what he did. Then when he didn't get it he ask for a clarification. And then when it was clarified (my post) he said that it now made sense and thank you. It was AFTER THAT that you jumped on him. If there is a point to your comments (Besides insulting/trolling) I am mystified as to what it is. Do you have one?
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Re: Supernatural strength.

Unread post by Thinyser »

eliakon wrote:
Thinyser wrote:Thats some significant house ruling on spell casting and its associated weightlessness effect, so I can see why he could be confused as to why big heavy logs only did 2d12 damage. That said, he was pointed directly at the actual rules that really govern heavy thrown object damage, which he either didn't have access too, didn't actually read, or read and failed to comprehend (which I doubt since I think a 5 year old could probably comprehend that rule). He does actually have the book to read the rules from, right?

Whatever happened in game aside, he needs to look at the actual rules, read them, and then if he has additional questions ask us for clarification, or ask the GM if he thinks things should have played out differently in game.

No need to insult people there Thinsyer. And as for asking questions.....well you notice that umm that's what he did. Then when he didn't get it he ask for a clarification. And then when it was clarified (my post) he said that it now made sense and thank you. It was AFTER THAT that you jumped on him. If there is a point to your comments (Besides insulting/trolling) I am mystified as to what it is. Do you have one?
I Didn't insult him, I said I doubted that he didn't comprehend it... which would mean I'm pretty sure that he can comprehend it... if he would have read it. However I'm wondering if he actually has the books to read, or is for another reason, not reading where he was directed by Psyrus to find the rules. It seems odd to me that he doesn't detail what points he's not grasping and basically asks for "everything" (like he's not read the rules/doesn't have the rules) and the only time he says he understands something after you post the rule itself, but it appears he was still mystified even after Psyrus stated where he can find the answers.

I don't think asking for "everything" is the way to go about asking for help in understanding a subject that is infact clearly spelled out or "cut and dry" (which he implies it is not), however if I offended you, or him, I apologize.
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Re: Supernatural strength.

Unread post by ShadowHawk »

Actually guys, it was not til Shannon got home to explain what had happened in that game that it started making since or a reasonable facsimile there of. :) What you told me, Eliakon, drove it home.

I didn't feel insulted by the post, Thinsyer. However, it did make me a bit angry at myself for not getting it the first time I read it or that Shannon tried to explain it to me.

But yeah, I can see it now...IT'S A MIRACLE. Ok, maybe not. :) Anyway, thanks for trying to pound it into my brain guys! Psst...next time try using a clue by 4.
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Re: Supernatural strength.

Unread post by Thinyser »

I'm not sure if you meant to say "clue by 4" or not but either way that will be the funniest thing I read all day!
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Re: Supernatural strength.

Unread post by Tor »

Regarding table-punch-damage and using weapons, far as I know they stack in HU and Nightbane, or you use greater of two in PF or Rifts.

In cases of things like Apoks where they convert SDC damage into MD giving the oddity of restrained punches doing more than normal or power punches, I instead say in those situations they calculate per the SDC setting tables.
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