Blood and Pain

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URLeader Hobbes
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Blood and Pain

Unread post by URLeader Hobbes »

What/how does everyone deal with blood loss? Adventurers are always getting shot with pointy things, stabbed, sliced, hacked apart, clawed and chewed on.

Also in addition to blood loss what about pain? Does anyone ever make players make a save vs pain? If so do you have a standard or do you just wing it?
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ShadowHawk
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Re: Blood and Pain

Unread post by ShadowHawk »

The way they handle is Blood lose 1d4 to as much as 2d12 in hp every 1-5 minutes, depending how deep and where the damage was. Pain: 16, unless a high PE.
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Re: Blood and Pain

Unread post by ShadowHawk »

Oh, we also use:
Paralyzation of limbs: 14
Extreme Heat/Cold: 14
Non-Magical Gasses: 15
Etc.
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Re: Blood and Pain

Unread post by Library Ogre »

I think it would be interesting to incorporate Hackmaster's Threshold of Pain and Trauma saves into Palladium Fantasy... it would certainly speed up combat.
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Re: Blood and Pain

Unread post by kiralon »

I have a saving throw vs pain/unconsciousness which is 14, and modified by PE bonus. I think I got it out of turtles or n&s but cant remember as its been in for so long.
if you get to below 0 hp you make a save if you want to try to do something, and also when you get brought back above 0 and want to do something without rest or magical healing above pe HP
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Re: Blood and Pain

Unread post by filo_clarke »

Shock, trauma and blood loss rules for knives and arrows can be found in the Compendium of Modern Weapons.
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Re: Blood and Pain

Unread post by Thinyser »

I usually ignore it because there is nearly always magic/psionic healing or the character knows first aid and can stop the bleeding & "ignore the pain" like the hero they are. :-)
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Re: Blood and Pain

Unread post by The Beast »

Mark Hall wrote:I think it would be interesting to incorporate Hackmaster's Threshold of Pain and Trauma saves into Palladium Fantasy... it would certainly speed up combat.


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Re: Blood and Pain

Unread post by drewkitty ~..~ »

Compiled Saving Throws
Pain: 14+ (16+ in Rifts)

Canon blood loss rules are found in the char creation section of each mainbook. The part that talks about HP&SDC.
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Re: Blood and Pain

Unread post by zyanitevp »

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:Compiled Saving Throws
Pain: 14+ (16+ in Rifts)

Canon blood loss rules are found in the char creation section of each mainbook. The part that talks about HP&SDC.

I also use the straight pain 14 save.
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Re: Blood and Pain

Unread post by Tor »

I like PF2's 3-step rules on the issue:

1) lose 1 HP per melee round per wound (page 258, mentioned under Magic Bandages)
2) lose 1 HP per minute per cut/stab wound (page 19, mentioned under Recovery of Hit Points)
3)lose 1 HP per minute from internal bleeding if HP drops below 30%, unlike the first 2, first aid cannot stop this and you need internal surgery from a paramedic or doctor to stop the loss (or possibly magic healing) Actually I'm not sure if the 3rd one is in PF but I remember seeing it in CB1 and Dead Reign and it sounds pretty cool.

The first 2 mean you lose a total of 5 HP per minute per wound, so that's pretty awesome.

I expect the 'wound' that Magic Bandages is talking about may be the cut/stab (also bullets, in other games) that the Recovery of HP is talking about, otherwise people would be bleeding out from fist fights.
Last edited by Tor on Wed Oct 29, 2014 7:55 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Blood and Pain

Unread post by URLeader Hobbes »

-1 HP/SDC Per minute per wound. So 3 open wounds - 3 hp/sdc per min.

Any successful healing efforts and/or psychic or magic healing instantly stop all blood loss.
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Re: Blood and Pain

Unread post by Library Ogre »

The Beast wrote:
Mark Hall wrote:I think it would be interesting to incorporate Hackmaster's Threshold of Pain and Trauma saves into Palladium Fantasy... it would certainly speed up combat.


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Hey, the "ol' TOP and Chop" cuts a lot of combats short... nothing like knocking a foe down for 5-50 seconds to get them out of the fight (especially when the thief is there to slit throats).

IME, it tends to go against monsters more than PCs, simply because PCs are more likely to use Honor to keep standing.
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Re: Blood and Pain

Unread post by drewkitty ~..~ »

URLeader Hobbes wrote:-1 HP/SDC Per minute per wound. So 3 open wounds - 3 hp/sdc per min.

Any successful healing efforts and/or psychic or magic healing instantly stop all blood loss.

Nope, it's -1 HP per minute per wound. So 3 open wounds is -3 HP per minute.

PF2 has 2 texts that cover the issue:
1) lose 1 HP per melee round per wound (page 258, mentioned under Magic Bandages)
2) lose 1 HP per minute per cut/stab wound (page 19, mentioned under Recovery of Hit Points)

However, outside of PF2 tor seam to think that in the in CB1 and DR there is the loss of 1 HP per minute from internal bleeding if HP drops below 30%, unlike the first 2, first aid cannot stop this and you need internal surgery from a paramedic or doctor to stop the loss (or possibly magic healing).

The page references for the RCB1 and DR text are still missing though.
Last edited by drewkitty ~..~ on Sun Nov 02, 2014 4:22 am, edited 9 times in total.
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Re: Blood and Pain

Unread post by Braden Campbell »

I wonder why the saving throw went up for Rifts?
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Re: Blood and Pain

Unread post by drewkitty ~..~ »

Braden Campbell wrote:I wonder why the saving throw went up for Rifts?

Might have to do with the M's in Rifts that add their PE bonus to their 'vs pain' rolls.
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Re: Blood and Pain

Unread post by Tor »

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:
URLeader Hobbes wrote:-1 HP/SDC Per minute per wound. So 3 open wounds - 3 hp/sdc per min.

Any successful healing efforts and/or psychic or magic healing instantly stop all blood loss.

Nope, it's -1 HP per minute per wound. So 3 open wounds is -3 HP per minute.

PF2 has 2 texts that cover the issue:
1) lose 1 HP per melee round per wound (page 258, mentioned under Magic Bandages)
2) lose 1 HP per minute per cut/stab wound (page 19, mentioned under Recovery of Hit Points)


Drew is right, direct from HP in PF (same as in HU2, page 18 and also Dead Reign page 150 left column, under First Aid) skipping the SDC. It's a bit confusing because in Rifts it comes off the SDC first (RiftsCB1p16-17)

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:However, outside of PF2 tor seam to think that in the in CB1 and DR there is the loss of 1 HP per minute from internal bleeding if HP drops below 30%, unlike the first 2, first aid cannot stop this and you need internal surgery from a paramedic or doctor to stop the loss (or possibly magic healing). The page references for the RCB1 and DR text are still missing though.


Got some interesting page numbers now

Ninjas and SuperSpies page 15 says something about being at 15% HP but I don't think it constitutes a rule since it's more of a warning, though I don't fully understand why 15% in particular was chosen, it made me think a rule was there but since it has an 'and bleeding' requirement it just seems to be elaborating on the existing rules of blood loss. It does mention 1 HP/min but I'm not clear whether it is 'bleeding' or 'at 15% AND bleeding' which triggers this per-minute loss.

My interpretation of N&SS working this way is probably influenced by RiftsCBp17 because it has dual-status HP loss like DR does, with the third paragraph of 'Blood Loss' talking about a 'severely hurt' status occuring at 15% HP which resists First Aid and Paramedic.

Dead Reign page 150 (right column, under Blood-loss) has the internal-loss at 50%, and the HP/min stacks with the HP/min loss from cuts/stabs, which is mentioned on the left column. Unlike the 15% rule from RCB, the 50% internal bleeding rule does not appear to be Paramedic-immune, in fact the 'unless given First Aid' statement makes it sound like even First Aid can prevent this HP loss. N&SS is similarly non-fatal with an 'even first aid will prevent' statement about its blood loss.

If one uses the Minor Injury Table (optional, HU2p19) then every 10% of HP has a 10% of making you lose 1 PE which would make you lose 1 HP as well, I figure. Not entirely sure how that works, TBH. If someone with HP equal to PE (let's say 10 of both) lost a PE, the max HP would go down to 9, bringing the current down to 9. But if you'd been hit and had 9/10 I'm not sure if losing a PE would drop the current down too (8/9) or not (9/9).

All these different kinda-contradicting rules could be taken as different dimensional natures inflicting how we react to damage. SDC heals faster in TMNT/N&SS (hourly rather than daily) so bleeding differently in dimensions isn't that odd.

For those who like fatal games and want some Megaversal consistency, I would probably stack all this stuff as so:
1) lose 1 sdc/min (per riftsCB) and an additional HP/min if SDC is at 0
2) lose 1 HP per melee plus 1 HP per minute (or 5/min) per wound, per the stacked PF statement
3) when below 50% HP, lose 1 HP per minute from semi-internal bleeding but this can be stopped via first aid (per Dead Reign)
4) when below 15%, lose another 2 HP per minute, 1 of which can be stopped by FA/Paramedic (N&SS) and 1 of which can only be stopped by MD/magic/psi/nanobots/etc. (per RCB)

If I were at 0 SDC and 10% of my HP and received no medical treatment, by stacking these four rules I would thus take 3HP/min (internal-bleed) and 6HP per bleeding wound (1sdc/min plus 1hp/min plus 1hp/meleeRound).

Someone who still had SDC or who had not lost as much HP would bleed out slower though. It's cool to have the rates differ based on how much you are hurt (externally AND internally) and whether you've received basic care for external wounds (1stAid/Paramedic) or extensive care for internal wounds (MD/supernatural).

5) also incur the optional (isn't everything?) damage tables on HU2p19 if (Minor: a single attack is a) fall b) explosion c) takes away 10% of HP) or (Major: when you are down to 1/4 HP). Multiple back/pelvis injuries on the minor table can wreck your HP via PE. The below-quarter threshhold for major has a 40% chance of you losing some amount of PE as well. Chronic pain from losing all HP can also sap a PE point, putting you below 0 and reducing how many below 0 you can survive, double-whack.

A lot to keep track of, I expect most would not to go through all that micro-management (or be THAT deadly) but for people who want fatalistic 'gunshots and stab wounds kill people' games, it really helps the 1d4 or 1d6 that some knives/bullets/arrows do a lot more frightening.

Although I'm not sure how getting stabbed a bunch can do something like break your pelvis or give you a concussion... random tables fail sometimes, they work better if you've received a wide variety of attacks from different sources.

Maybe it's RPd as something like you're so stabbed-out that you fall and hurt your pelvis and whack your head or something as a result?
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