De-supernaturalization in PF

[Tor]

If a supernatural creature like a demon were transformed into an Elf via a circle of transformation, would that mean they are no longer supernatural creatures and I could attach a permanence ward to them to make them suffer eternal agony?

[Glistam]

Sounds reasonable to me.

[smashed]

No, they would no longer be able to suffer eternal agony, they would now be an elf, limited to finite agony.

[drewkitty ~..~]

If a supernatural creature like a demon were transformed into an Elf via a circle of transformation, would that mean they are no longer supernatural creatures and I could attach a permanence ward to them to make them suffer eternal agony?

Talking about the circles of transformation (M/F) in the Old Ones book, it would indeed be turned into a real elf w/o any of their supernaturalness. (a way for sn being to turn into a mortal without going through the "enlightened" classes.)
However, because they is text about the OO being able to turn back into their 'normal' selves, there is an arguable possibility that they can turn/be turned back into their old selves.

[eliakon]

If a supernatural creature like a demon were transformed into an Elf via a circle of transformation, would that mean they are no longer supernatural creatures and I could attach a permanence ward to them to make them suffer eternal agony?

Yes, they are now an elf and not a demon. So sure, you can torture them until they die.

[Lukterran]

Yes the demon looses all supernatural qualities and is an Elf. It was created by the Old Ones. If it works on an Old One and can turn them into an elf, it sure as crap will work on a demon.

[Nekira Sudacne]

If a supernatural creature like a demon were transformed into an Elf via a circle of transformation, would that mean they are no longer supernatural creatures and I could attach a permanence ward to them to make them suffer eternal agony?

Yes, but only if you do something else to make them immortal--otherwise they will die when their lifespan is up.

they might die sooner than that--after all, Agony has a relatively brief time period. Unable to take any actions, they could no longer eat, drink, or sleep, and as mortal elves who need such things would die from dehydration soonish.

failing that, stress might well carry them off eairly, or even shock from unending pain. as mortals they have all kinds of health problems from that kind of treatment.

[Tor]

am now wondering if this also applies when Kirgi uses his priestly metamorphosis to change humanoids into Ratlings...

and if Ratlings changed into Goblins might be Cobblers

No, they would no longer be able to suffer eternal agony, they would now be an elf, limited to finite agony.

I should have said prolonged...

Are there any ways to make something immortal without making them supernatural? Perhaps if I gave the elf that major super ability? Trying to remember if that Shadow-Self thing in Bletherad is supernatural...

[The Beast]

am now wondering if this also applies when Kirgi uses his priestly metamorphosis to change humanoids into Ratlings...

and if Ratlings changed into Goblins might be Cobblers

No, they would no longer be able to suffer eternal agony, they would now be an elf, limited to finite agony.

I should have said prolonged...

Are there any ways to make something immortal without making them supernatural? Perhaps if I gave the elf that major super ability? Trying to remember if that Shadow-Self thing in Bletherad is supernatural...

Mystic China has a bunch of immortals in it. Granted, I don't think they're what you're looking for, but they're in there.

[Tor]

ah true, overlooked them, although some like the Undead Immortal and demon-empowered ones seem like they might be supernatural.