Undead Hunter and attacks per melee ?

[tmbn]

I have my answer on this, but I would like to hear what you are saying on Attacks per Melee on Undead Hunter. The Undead hunter get extra attacks per melee on lvl. 5 and 10. That is addition to Palladin attacks. But the text is a little bit confusing. And its not clear how the attacks overlap. At least for me having English as second language.

How many attacks to you think an Undead Hunter have on lvl. 11 ?

[kiralon]

same as paladin at level 11 +2
so 6 all told

one of the things I don't like much about second ed is the number of attacks you get, as it tends to make the combat drag. (eg one character has 8, another has 3,and another 96), its much better when the players have around the same number of attacks per round otherwise the magic users especially tend to mostly sit out the fight except for the first one or two attacks in the round.

[zyanitevp]

same as paladin at level 11 +2
so 6 all told

one of the things I don't like much about second ed is the number of attacks you get, as it tends to make the combat drag. (eg one character has 8, another has 3,and another 96), its much better when the players have around the same number of attacks per round otherwise the magic users especially tend to mostly sit out the fight except for the first one or two attacks in the round.

96???? I want to see that one....
The dragging part is really enhanced with fleet feet.....

[kiralon]

The old jeridu 6 armed simultaneous (from paired weapons) strike is pretty hard to beat, and is effectively a x6 multiplier for the number of attacks they have. Getting stabbed 8 (16 fleeted, so 16x6 attacks that's 96 attacks from one pc at level 5 for the warrior types, with only 32 of the attacks parryable) times a round by 6 arms is not fun, and they might lose auto parry for doing it, but they can still autododge, and fleet feet makes them fully crazy.

[Tor]

Jeridu have never explicitly been allowed to hit more than 2 times in an action. This is supposition based on vague wording as established in another thread.

This is a maneuver I so far have only seen in Octomen and Xiticix, it's explicitly spelled out as unique to them.

[kiralon]

Jeridu have never explicitly been allowed to hit more than 2 times in an action. This is supposition based on vague wording as established in another thread.

This is a maneuver I so far have only seen in Octomen and Xiticix, it's explicitly spelled out as unique to them.

The description of their ability in the book doesn't say that

Paired Weapons: All Jeridu automatically have the skill of
Paired Weapons, and can use it for all six of their arms.
When using weapons in every arm, the Jeridu basically acts
like he can control three sets of paired weapons at once. This
makes these people utterly lethal in close combat.

[Tor]

Yup, control, not sextuple-strike with

[kiralon]

your logic evades me, it says they have paired weapons and can use if for all six of their arms, and paired weapons control is attacking with both weapons

[arouetta]

But how many people can you feasibly stick in front of a Jeridu? Maybe two. After that, there is taking actions to maneuver to the next person. And after seeing how quickly the initial two enemy were taken down, there's going to be a lot of maneuvering to back the rest into a corner. And paired weapons is useless if someone comes up from behind, the Jeridu would have to dodge then, eating up an action. A little smart fighting can whittle down those actions, to where there's only one, maybe two, actions spent on multiple strikes.

[kiralon]

But how many people can you feasibly stick in front of a Jeridu? Maybe two. After that, there is taking actions to maneuver to the next person. And after seeing how quickly the initial two enemy were taken down, there's going to be a lot of maneuvering to back the rest into a corner. And paired weapons is useless if someone comes up from behind, the Jeridu would have to dodge then, eating up an action. A little smart fighting can whittle down those actions, to where there's only one, maybe two, actions spent on multiple strikes.

jeridu get autododge
invis darkness and adhesion are the best spells to use on them, flying invis ones are pretty nasty. They are good for taking down single big nasty enemies rather than multiple groups, but if they get surrounded their multi strike doesn't have to hit 1 target, they can hit 6.

[arouetta]

But how many people can you feasibly stick in front of a Jeridu? Maybe two. After that, there is taking actions to maneuver to the next person. And after seeing how quickly the initial two enemy were taken down, there's going to be a lot of maneuvering to back the rest into a corner. And paired weapons is useless if someone comes up from behind, the Jeridu would have to dodge then, eating up an action. A little smart fighting can whittle down those actions, to where there's only one, maybe two, actions spent on multiple strikes.

jeridu get autododge
invis darkness and adhesion are the best spells to use on them, flying invis ones are pretty nasty. They are good for taking down single big nasty enemies rather than multiple groups, but if they get surrounded their multi strike doesn't have to hit 1 target, they can hit 6.

Think of the physics for a moment. Six people cannot fit in front of one person. Not even in a mob situation, only a couple of people are in front, a few more are on sides and back (requiring movement first), and the rest cycle in and out.

[Library Ogre]

But how many people can you feasibly stick in front of a Jeridu? Maybe two. After that, there is taking actions to maneuver to the next person. And after seeing how quickly the initial two enemy were taken down, there's going to be a lot of maneuvering to back the rest into a corner. And paired weapons is useless if someone comes up from behind, the Jeridu would have to dodge then, eating up an action. A little smart fighting can whittle down those actions, to where there's only one, maybe two, actions spent on multiple strikes.

jeridu get autododge
invis darkness and adhesion are the best spells to use on them, flying invis ones are pretty nasty. They are good for taking down single big nasty enemies rather than multiple groups, but if they get surrounded their multi strike doesn't have to hit 1 target, they can hit 6.

Think of the physics for a moment. Six people cannot fit in front of one person. Not even in a mob situation, only a couple of people are in front, a few more are on sides and back (requiring movement first), and the rest cycle in and out.

No, but you can fit 3 in front and 3 behind; even in that situation, though, the Jeridu is probably best taking out a single opponent as quickly as possible, to reduce their deficiency in the action economy... sure, they can make 6 attacks at once and use their autododge, but if everyone else has 4 attacks, they're facing a fair deficiency.

[kiralon]

Lets say 10 bad guys
say 2 at front 2 at sides, rest waiting to get in. he stabs front left with all six and he drops, bad guys attack back and 1 takes the position of the fallen guy, jeridu autododges, then charges forward and drops another guy, depending on weapons the jeridu has he could feasibly drop 2 guys, but if they are tough he is better off using all 6 on one guy so that guy can only parry 2, so 4 hits. If the bad guys have enough attacks to keep filling in the missing holes it just keeps going. I have had pc's do this, where the Jeridu in the group killed off %90 of the bad guys, while the rest of the party (5) took the other %10. In real life time the jeridu player also took up most of the combat time so the others were just mostly waiting, especially the casters.
6 swords of lightning with the same activation word was amusing to begin with.

[drewkitty ~..~]

I just use the h2h MA... *shrugs*.

[kiralon]

A Zanji Master with circular parry would be a surprise

[Lukterran]

I have my answer on this, but I would like to hear what you are saying on Attacks per Melee on Undead Hunter. The Undead hunter get extra attacks per melee on lvl. 5 and 10. That is addition to Palladin attacks. But the text is a little bit confusing. And its not clear how the attacks overlap. At least for me having English as second language.

How many attacks to you think an Undead Hunter have on lvl. 11 ?

To answer your question and ignore the off topic jeridu sidetrack.

Palladins get hand-to-hand Martial Arts. So it would be normal number of attacks recieved from HtH:MA (at 11th level gives the player 4 additional attacks) and an additional two attacks one at 5th and another at 10th from being a Undead Hunter. (I don't know if you use the 1 attack or 2 attacks for living rule as the bases number of attakcs) so either 7-8 attacks per melee.

It is can be a little difficult to convert those 1st edition OCC over to 2nd edition. Like how much PPE does an Undead Hunter start with?

[arouetta]

Lets say 10 bad guys
say 2 at front 2 at sides, rest waiting to get in. he stabs front left with all six and he drops, bad guys attack back and 1 takes the position of the fallen guy, jeridu autododges, then charges forward and drops another guy, depending on weapons the jeridu has he could feasibly drop 2 guys, but if they are tough he is better off using all 6 on one guy so that guy can only parry 2, so 4 hits. If the bad guys have enough attacks to keep filling in the missing holes it just keeps going. I have had pc's do this, where the Jeridu in the group killed off %90 of the bad guys, while the rest of the party (5) took the other %10. In real life time the jeridu player also took up most of the combat time so the others were just mostly waiting, especially the casters.
6 swords of lightning with the same activation word was amusing to begin with.

The GM played the bad guys wrong. Once two bad guys dropped right away, the rest should have been moving away from the action, trying to find terrain features and distance to use to their advantage. A group of bad guys that just keep wading in would have to have a collective IQ equal to my shoe size. Plus, once a few drop, there's bodies between the combatants, forcing a distance that require actions to maneuver.

[kiralon]

And if they are supposed to be guarding the entrance to a passageway, not that it matters, because if they split up they just die alone, the jeridu wasn't by himself, running guys usually got shot by the longbowman or wizard of the party. The only terrain that would help the enemy would be a castle wall full of longbowman or something like that, and they are very hard to surprise people with, and most of the time the Jeridu was fleet feeted.

[Tor]

Which page/book has this Undead Hunter mod? Had heard of it, thought separate OCC, did not know it was a mod for Paladins.

aren't some of the Knight OCC mods in the Rifter canon as well?

[Lukterran]

Which page/book has this Undead Hunter mod? Had heard of it, thought separate OCC, did not know it was a mod for Paladins.

aren't some of the Knight OCC mods in the Rifter canon as well?

What are you talking about? It isn't a class modification it is a completely seperate OCC. With specialized training in magic and weapon combat that Paladins have no access to. The only thing that is the same is that they use the same hand-to-hand combat table and exp table.

Undead Hunters are in 1st Edition Yin-sloth Jungles book and were never converted to 2nd Edition. Because basically Palladium didn't see the value in converting Island at the Edge of the World and Yin-Sloth books. I suppose they had poor sales numbers?

[tmbn]

Ok! I see this thread is far off topic. Because of the attacks per melee is not incremental and it levels out the added ones, I use 5 attacks per melee on Undead hunter on 11.

[kiralon]

I haven't seen that interpretation, but as a first ed book the number of attacks for palladin was different (and no boxing), but I would argue at level 5 I got +1 attack, so when palladin attacks went from 2-3 id still argue the +1 would still be in effect so I would have for, and when I got to 11 and 4 attacks for paladin id then argue that there are now 2 +1 attack per round modifiers.
I think the text is pretty clear
Additional Attack per Melee Round at level five and ten! This is in addition to the attacks per melee gained from the Hand to Hand: Palladin skill.
so at level 5 its paladin +1, at level 10 its paladin +1 plus another 1