When your character goes bonkers, what do you do?

[Hotrod]

Insanity seems to strike a lot in Palladium's games. As jarring as it is to have a sudden insanity thrust upon a character, I sometimes wonder as I read the books why so many circumstances induce our characters to go cuckoo-pants. Though I'll admit I haven't played as much as many folks here have, I've never seen it handled well, and I've seen a number of times in which it just becomes a problem, like a GM who forces a player's character to do something bad for the group, or a player who takes the insanity overboard and becomes disruptive to the game.

Aside from the general reservations already mentioned, I have three specific beefs with insanity the way it's done in canon.

First, there are too many circumstances in which a character MUST get an insanity due to some extreme situation he or she was in. This belies reality. Many people live through extremely trying circumstances without becoming a loon. The text rarely says to "roll to save vs insanity. It just thrusts the insanity upon the character. There should be more mechanisms for resisting the call of the funny farm.

Second, true insanity is usually anything but random. It's generally either a product of brain chemistry, circumstances, or both. Soldiers with PTSD don't suddenly become obsessed with fashion or get a phobia of wide-open spaces. Given how insanity can totally redefine a character, it should be chosen carefully to fit the circumstances (preferably by the player; I really don't like seeing a GM hijack his or her players' characters). The degree to which an insanity has taken hold and manifested is likewise something I wouldn't dictate too strongly. The cases presented in the insanity tables are often quite extreme.

Third, there are no good options for curing insanity in the game. It's far easier and faster to get your character brought back from the dead than cured of insanity. Of course, near death is also supposed to be a trigger for insanity (which belies my own personal experience). Therapy takes a long time, requires a therapist who isn't likely to go on adventures with you, and it has a lousy (30-35%) success ratio.

The only quick solution is getting a Mind Mage to permanently sacrifice 2-12 ISP to permanently cure you right away (which most won't do). You get a save, though, so there's a significant chance it won't take. The only other solution I see is to simply ignore this part of the game and let the player role-play it out.

Thoughts?

[eliakon]

Since the palladium insanity rules are childish, arbitrary, and unrealistic (even for a game), disruptive (as you mentioned), and serve little to no good purpose in the game, I don't use them. I have rarely seen them used for much either. On the few occasions where a player in a game I have been in was actually in a situation that might realistically cause insanity, the player has usually role played out the trauma better than some random (and likely silly) roll on a table.

[Greyaxe]

Since the palladium insanity rules are childish, arbitrary, and unrealistic (even for a game), disruptive (as you mentioned), and serve little to no good purpose in the game, I don't use them. I have rarely seen them used for much either. On the few occasions where a player in a game I have been in was actually in a situation that might realistically cause insanity, the player has usually role played out the trauma better than some random (and likely silly) roll on a table.

I have been gaming for 27 years and never used the insanity tables outside of a Rifts Crazy.

[The Oh So Amazing Nate]

Been gaming for 25 years. I've only ever used the insanity table once. The GM layed out such a freaky, twisted, backed into a corner situation to put the character through, that it actually rattled me IRL. I admitted defeat, could NOT figure out how to guide the pc through. GM offered me the option of a Nightmare retcon, but at a cost. I took it. The pc now has a crippling phobia of squirrels. Only a 25% chance of not being able to hold it together when he see's one. I've YET to make a successful save, and in a game of TMNT squirrels come up more often than you'd think.

As for what I do? I just work it into the character. It is a ROLE playing game after all.

[smashed]

We use the insanity rules, but I don't know about your games, but in my the only that really ever comes up is for returning from the dead. The others have rarely occurred to PCs, a bit more often in NPCs. I've always viewed them as a good addition to the game. Nobody really likes adding it to their character or dealing with it so it adds a level of hesitation when trying to return a character from the dead and prevents the characters from getting to arrogant once they gain access to simple resurrection magics. We've had two truly memorable events with them though random rolls one character's alignment was reversed, becoming one of our groups greatest and longest running villains, another character became a homicidal maniac, which is not something you want to see in a high level fire warlock. One the character was set off things didn't last long, but it was one hell of a fight.

[Grell]

I've used them several times, but I always make sure the player is on board first. If they're not, it's easy enough to figure out some other way to reflect whatever trauma they've experienced. Ultimately I won't force a player to portray something they're not comfortable with.

[Noon]

Hotrod - If you don't want to do that, say it. But don't kick the game in the junk in order to avoid doing it.

We use the insanity rules, but I don't know about your games, but in my the only that really ever comes up is for returning from the dead. The others have rarely occurred to PCs, a bit more often in NPCs. I've always viewed them as a good addition to the game. Nobody really likes adding it to their character or dealing with it so it adds a level of hesitation when trying to return a character from the dead and prevents the characters from getting to arrogant once they gain access to simple resurrection magics. We've had two truly memorable events with them though random rolls one character's alignment was reversed, becoming one of our groups greatest and longest running villains, another character became a homicidal maniac, which is not something you want to see in a high level fire warlock. One the character was set off things didn't last long, but it was one hell of a fight.

I'm not sure about homicidal maniac (might make that a reroll), but used for revives from the dead sounds a cool idea.

[Hotrod]

No offending "kick in the junk" was intended toward the game or Palladium Books in general. I'm a fan, and I had a great experience playing the Palladium Fantasy game Kevin ran at FanFare back in October.

I brought this up because it's something that bugged me as I read through the books yesterday, doing some research for the Palladium Fantasy map I'm creating. Given the experiences I've had with character insanity, I don't really understand why Kevin writes about insanity as something fun to throw into the game. My experience may well be skewed, though. Perhaps there are really fun ways of doing it that add a lot to the quality of the game experience. If you've had good experiences with it, I'd be interested to read about them.

[arouetta]

It was a BtS1ed/HU/Mystic China mix of a game, the GM would use the random insanity table (the really old one) following near-death or other trauma. And you rolled a D4 to see how many you got at a time. But he also allowed for cures after a reasonable amount of time. My character Aurora still holds the record for total insanities - 14 over a character lifetime, (the character was retired at level 13 totally cured of all insanities, never had more than 4 at a time).

I had fun with it. I don't believe I was disruptive, the other players laughed and the character interaction was funny. The GM was generous, for example at one point, due to a bad deal with a Yama King, Aurora was a reformed demon following the laws of hell AND had the exhibitionist insanity. That was tricky to play.

The player just has to know when to play it and when to let it lay low, the GM has to know how to set things up so that it's funny, not disruptive, and the other players have to know how to play along and not push certain things. Plus as GM, never be afraid to throw out a result from the table you don't like, and allow for alternative ways of curing the mind as it goes from funny to no fun when carried on too long.

Just my 2 cents.

[Cinos]

I suppose I'm the odd man out as the one who uses the insanity tables with relative frequency (comes up about once per campaign, more for Nightbane / BtS). Though I take a pretty judicious care with it, re-rolling any of the inanities I can justify at least something of a connection between event and insanity, and all of them have a save (since that's the point of having a Save vs Insanity).

[zyanitevp]

I've used them several times, but I always make sure the player is on board first. If they're not, it's easy enough to figure out some other way to reflect whatever trauma they've experienced. Ultimately I won't force a player to portray something they're not comfortable with.

Agree- player buy-in is critical here. We use insanity fairly regularly (about 2-4 total/year) and often it has been the player feeling they should be crazy.

[Glistam]

The wrong insanity can destroy a character just as assuredly as death can. More so, in fact, because as was pointed out death is easier to overcome than insanities are.

There do seem to be a lot of things which can result in characters rolling on the insanity tables, and bypassing the Save versus Insanity. Still there is this note from the insanity section to consider:

The G.M. should consider the character's level of experience (the lower the level, the less likely the character will be prepared to deal with a traumatic situation) and his or her M.E. attribute (the higher the mental endurance, the less likely the character is to succumb to mental and emotional duress and shock). Insanities should not be handed out like candy at a party. The human mind is really quite resilient.

[kiralon]

A few of my players were nuts enough not to need random insanities like they got caught by slavers and stabbed themselves to death with their lute (you know, guitar thingy) before they could be taken etc
Insanities should not be random for what they are, I believe that you should roll to see if you get one in tremendously traumatic times, but it shouldn't be rolled to see what it is.
Oh look XY escaped and pounded my brain with horrors, now whenever I go near panda bears ill run screaming, but monstrous horrors im fine with - is just stupid.

[Lukterran]

First, there are too many circumstances in which a character MUST get an insanity due to some extreme situation he or she was in. This belies reality. Many people live through extremely trying circumstances without becoming a loon.

You know many people that have to deal with vampires and other undead stalking in the night or demonic forces attempting to attack their very souls? Perhaps you know of a few people who have died violently to be resurrected later? How about those that have their reality altered by some magic user trying to manipulate their minds? I think that insanity would be a realistic problem that characters might have to face in the Palladium World given these types of extreme situations. This isn't modern day America were everything is all peaches.

Now as far as the random tables go, I only use those when creating a new character that I want to have some sort of personality disfunction. I would say it would make more since to make the insanity fit the situation in game as a GM. So if a person died from a poisonous trap while robbing a Temple of Pith and was later resurrected, than perhaps a phobia of snakes would be a good choice.

[Hotrod]

You raise some valid points. No-one on this earth has to deal with undead, vampires, or demon incursions. In that light, it might be presumptive of me to dismiss this dynamic entirely. Most psychological studies of populations who have been through trauma like the holocaust, the atomic bombings, and war, conclude that there are psychological effects, but such effects tend to be far subtler than the throw-em-in-the-funny-farm conditions in the book.

Even for people who have survived torture, there is no guarantee of mental illness. They tend to suffer from varying degrees of PTSD related to their specific circumstances, but even PTSD isn't necessarily a persistent thing. around 17% go through a phase of depression, and for another 17%, that depression is long-term. These are normal reactions, not insanities. I can certainly see how these conditions could be a part of a character's response to extreme circumstances. There's nothing random about these reactions, and they're rarely as severe as what's described in the book.

[kiralon]

No-one on this earth has to deal with undead, vampires, or demon incursions.

I take it you've never seen this show, then.

I prefer Death Valley
less scarey

[Thinyser]

I tend not to use insanities unless the character class demands it at startup (like the Crazy or Temporal Warrior) and even then I don't usually use random ones as that gets really wonky and hard for players to roleplay and can be hugely disruptive to the game and make the whole thing not worth playing.

[Chronicle]

If an insanity is in order I usually find the best fit for the situation. If the character has a disposition I try to make them fit. Problem is, my players tend to overplay their characters disorders to the point that it is distracting.