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Unread postPosted: Sun Jul 09, 2017 6:43 pm
  

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Hero

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I have a few question I'd like to hear your thoughts on when it comes to the elves and dwarves before the elf/dwarf war

1:Would it be safe to say the elves would be more inclined to Biomancy then dwarves, if so how advance would their Biomancy be?

2:How likely would be to find a long abandoned pre-war elf or dwarf city/outpost also what state would the lost city/outpost be and where would it be?

3:Given the raw power and destructiveness of the Elf/Dwarf war and the length of the war how likely would it be that elven or dwarven WMDs would be found, what kind would it be and how powerful would it be?( biomancy constructs/bio weapons for the elves and some thing different for the dwarves)

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Unread postPosted: Sun Jul 09, 2017 7:54 pm
  

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1 There is no text that includes biomancy within the PF setting. Thus, it's inclusion would be a GM import.

There is nothing in the text that would say if they would be more inclined or not. I can only point out that there is a tribe of jungle elves on rifts earth that lives hand in hand with one sort of biomancy. Whether or not they would inclined to use the other sort (lemurian) is a matter of the culture of the sub-group of elves.
As far as I know the biomancy specialty magic was culled (kill off) from the PF world at the end of the time of 1000 magics.

2 There are probably ruins all over the old kingdoms.

3 After the end of the elf-dwarf war they purged nearly all of the truly powerful magic weapons by destroying them or banishing them to places that people can not get to. There are a few of these listed in the My Nimro book.

Normal biomancy constructs (if there was biomancy during the 1000 magics age) would of died during the thousands of years since they would of been made. This is unless there was a time hole like the lemurian hid in or that the construct was immortal/could not die of old age.

Who is to say that the orcs are not biomany altered humans that were made to fight in the E-D wars. But that is just speculation. It is known that the Old Ones ""created"" new races to fight and rule over their domains they acquired. Even if the text does not say how the races were made.

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Unread postPosted: Sun Jul 09, 2017 9:55 pm
  

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drewkitty ~..~ wrote:
1 There is no text that includes biomancy within the PF setting. Thus, it's inclusion would be a GM import.

There is nothing in the text that would say if they would be more inclined or not. I can only point out that there is a tribe of jungle elves on rifts earth that lives hand in hand with one sort of biomancy. Whether or not they would inclined to use the other sort (lemurian) is a matter of the culture of the sub-group of elves.
As far as I know the biomancy specialty magic was culled (kill off) from the PF world at the end of the time of 1000 magics.

2 There are probably ruins all over the old kingdoms.

3 After the end of the elf-dwarf war they purged nearly all of the truly powerful magic weapons by destroying them or banishing them to places that people can not get to. There are a few of these listed in the My Nimro book.

Normal biomancy constructs (if there was biomancy during the 1000 magics age) would of died during the thousands of years since they would of been made. This is unless there was a time hole like the lemurian hid in or that the construct was immortal/could not die of old age.

Who is to say that the orcs are not biomany altered humans that were made to fight in the E-D wars. But that is just speculation. It is known that the Old Ones ""created"" new races to fight and rule over their domains they acquired. Even if the text does not say how the races were made.



Ok then, thanks for your input Drew I guess the inclusion of left over WMDs from the war as well as any ruins would be up to the GM to hash out, might have to strap on yea old thinking cap on this.

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Unread postPosted: Mon Jul 10, 2017 10:49 am
  

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Kargan3033 wrote:
I have a few question I'd like to hear your thoughts on when it comes to the elves and dwarves before the elf/dwarf war

1:Would it be safe to say the elves would be more inclined to Biomancy then dwarves, if so how advance would their Biomancy be?

2:How likely would be to find a long abandoned pre-war elf or dwarf city/outpost also what state would the lost city/outpost be and where would it be?

3:Given the raw power and destructiveness of the Elf/Dwarf war and the length of the war how likely would it be that elven or dwarven WMDs would be found, what kind would it be and how powerful would it be?( biomancy constructs/bio weapons for the elves and some thing different for the dwarves)


1) I would say it is likely, only because the only known biomancers we have are the Jungle Elves. I also think it goes better with the elven aesthetic. However, if a GM said "No, dwarves were biomancers", I would shrug and keep playing, because there's nothing really to contradict that statement.

2) I'd say it depends highly on where you are; most likely in the Old Kingdom and Old Kingdom Mountains, and the state would be pretty bad, unless you want it to be better. The Elf-Dwarf War ended 10,000 years ago; the oldest human structures on Earth are only about 7000 years old, and most of those are buried (passage graves and the like). Now, ours also aren't reinforced or constructed with magic, so you can justify pretty much any state you want, but unless you have a reason to make them well preserved, anything on the surface is likely to be some partially buried foundations, and subsurface things are likely to be unsteady. Now, if it's a biomantic city? It could get all sorts of funky, with a small valley completely overrun with novel mutations of once awesome biomantic constructions (if you can find it, the old Dark Sun supplement "Windriders of the Jagged Cliffs" has a similar concept, and stuff you might want to steal for this scenario).

3) Not likely, on a year to year basis, but there's almost definitely some stuff still out there. For biomancy, I'd lean towards "Constructed super-beast stuck in stasis", with the stasis possible degrading, letting the monster out. For dwarves, I like the idea of a race of magical robot warriors. Neither are quite WMDs, but they're cool ideas that fit with the races aesthetics.

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When I see someone "fisking" these days my first inclination is to think "That person doesn't have much to say, and says it in volume." -John Scalzi
Whiskerbutt, noun: homemade RPG characters and maps found in secondhand RPG materials.

http://rpgcrank.blogspot.com/
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Unread postPosted: Mon Jul 10, 2017 1:35 pm
  

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Mark Hall wrote:
Kargan3033 wrote:
I have a few question I'd like to hear your thoughts on when it comes to the elves and dwarves before the elf/dwarf war

1:Would it be safe to say the elves would be more inclined to Biomancy then dwarves, if so how advance would their Biomancy be?

2:How likely would be to find a long abandoned pre-war elf or dwarf city/outpost also what state would the lost city/outpost be and where would it be?

3:Given the raw power and destructiveness of the Elf/Dwarf war and the length of the war how likely would it be that elven or dwarven WMDs would be found, what kind would it be and how powerful would it be?( biomancy constructs/bio weapons for the elves and some thing different for the dwarves)


1) I would say it is likely, only because the only known biomancers we have are the Jungle Elves. I also think it goes better with the elven aesthetic. However, if a GM said "No, dwarves were biomancers", I would shrug and keep playing, because there's nothing really to contradict that statement.

2) I'd say it depends highly on where you are; most likely in the Old Kingdom and Old Kingdom Mountains, and the state would be pretty bad, unless you want it to be better. The Elf-Dwarf War ended 10,000 years ago; the oldest human structures on Earth are only about 7000 years old, and most of those are buried (passage graves and the like). Now, ours also aren't reinforced or constructed with magic, so you can justify pretty much any state you want, but unless you have a reason to make them well preserved, anything on the surface is likely to be some partially buried foundations, and subsurface things are likely to be unsteady. Now, if it's a biomantic city? It could get all sorts of funky, with a small valley completely overrun with novel mutations of once awesome biomantic constructions (if you can find it, the old Dark Sun supplement "Windriders of the Jagged Cliffs" has a similar concept, and stuff you might want to steal for this scenario).

3) Not likely, on a year to year basis, but there's almost definitely some stuff still out there. For biomancy, I'd lean towards "Constructed super-beast stuck in stasis", with the stasis possible degrading, letting the monster out. For dwarves, I like the idea of a race of magical robot warriors. Neither are quite WMDs, but they're cool ideas that fit with the races aesthetics.


Thanks for your thoughts Mark, jungle elves?, are they from one of the Rifter mags?

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Unread postPosted: Mon Jul 10, 2017 2:08 pm
  

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Jungle Elves and Biomancy are from Rifts World Book 6: South America.

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When I see someone "fisking" these days my first inclination is to think "That person doesn't have much to say, and says it in volume." -John Scalzi
Whiskerbutt, noun: homemade RPG characters and maps found in secondhand RPG materials.

http://rpgcrank.blogspot.com/
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Unread postPosted: Mon Jul 10, 2017 5:38 pm
  

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Mark Hall wrote:
Jungle Elves and Biomancy are from Rifts World Book 6: South America.


Ahh ok then, I take it those elves fled from the PF world and set up shop in SA?

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Unread postPosted: Mon Jul 10, 2017 5:56 pm
  

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Lemurian Biomancy is from the Rifts Lemuria book.

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Q's on this board need canon answers first, then post your house rules listed as such.
I say what the classes are even if some books have mislabeled them as something else. So get over it.

Mostly I write out exactly what I mean, then sometimes get even more finicky.

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Unread postPosted: Tue Jul 11, 2017 9:52 am
  

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I have that book DrewKitty but I was thinking more along the lines of the elves in PF creating/using biomancy before and juring the elf-dwarf war and if there were some biomancy WMDs left over from that war or renegade elves still practicing biomancy despite it being banned juring the cleansing of such magic and weapons after the elf-dwarf war.

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Unread postPosted: Tue Jul 11, 2017 12:39 pm
  

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Kargan3033 wrote:
Mark Hall wrote:
Jungle Elves and Biomancy are from Rifts World Book 6: South America.


Ahh ok then, I take it those elves fled from the PF world and set up shop in SA?


Not a bloody clue. :D

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When I see someone "fisking" these days my first inclination is to think "That person doesn't have much to say, and says it in volume." -John Scalzi
Whiskerbutt, noun: homemade RPG characters and maps found in secondhand RPG materials.

http://rpgcrank.blogspot.com/
Rifts Articles
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Unread postPosted: Tue Jul 11, 2017 5:40 pm
  

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Mark Hall wrote:
Kargan3033 wrote:
Mark Hall wrote:
Jungle Elves and Biomancy are from Rifts World Book 6: South America.


Ahh ok then, I take it those elves fled from the PF world and set up shop in SA?


Not a bloody clue. :D


Fair enough, going to have to come up with something interesting for the knife eared tree huggers :twisted:

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Unread postPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 10:03 am
  

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Looking at some unpublished parts of MoM (written when I was a lot more fresh on the state of the Megaverse), I had it that biomancy had never been practiced on Palladium, but that the New Kingdom had some contact with the Jungle Elves.

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When I see someone "fisking" these days my first inclination is to think "That person doesn't have much to say, and says it in volume." -John Scalzi
Whiskerbutt, noun: homemade RPG characters and maps found in secondhand RPG materials.

http://rpgcrank.blogspot.com/
Rifts Articles
General Palladium Articles


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Unread postPosted: Thu Jul 13, 2017 9:29 pm
  

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Mark Hall wrote:
Looking at some unpublished parts of MoM (written when I was a lot more fresh on the state of the Megaverse), I had it that biomancy had never been practiced on Palladium, but that the New Kingdom had some contact with the Jungle Elves.


Hmm, interesting, I guess that's one to get Biomancy into PF.

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Unread postPosted: Fri Jul 14, 2017 9:35 am
  

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Kargan3033 wrote:
Mark Hall wrote:
Looking at some unpublished parts of MoM (written when I was a lot more fresh on the state of the Megaverse), I had it that biomancy had never been practiced on Palladium, but that the New Kingdom had some contact with the Jungle Elves.


Hmm, interesting, I guess that's one to get Biomancy into PF.


And, of course, that's unpublished, so might not be true when it gets down to it.

_________________
When I see someone "fisking" these days my first inclination is to think "That person doesn't have much to say, and says it in volume." -John Scalzi
Whiskerbutt, noun: homemade RPG characters and maps found in secondhand RPG materials.

http://rpgcrank.blogspot.com/
Rifts Articles
General Palladium Articles


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Unread postPosted: Fri Jul 14, 2017 8:25 pm
  

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Comment: The greatest part of the writer's time is spent in reading, in order to write: a man will turn over half a library to make one book. - Samuel Johnson, 1775
8-) Hmm, might have to go to South American and read up on these Elves and
Biomancy.


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Unread postPosted: Sat Jul 15, 2017 1:03 pm
  

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Reagren Wright wrote:
8-) Hmm, might have to go to South American and read up on these Elves and
Biomancy.

Please don't
Its already been WAY over used.

[/soapbox]

Spoiler:
The original book had it as a super rare, super exotic magic from one world that was so exotic the Splugorth had only just recently even heard about it...
...of course that NEVER lasts and now it is one of the basic magics of the Native Americans and then the core magic of Lemurian Society (which for some utterly bizarre reason uses the magic in exactly the opposite way that it is described as being...
Lemurians should be using Bio-Wizardry not Biomancy what with all the enslaving, reckless environmental destruction, wanton murder, torture, and what not they do with it)

There are a LOT of rare exotic magics in the Megaverse...
...but one of the WORST ideas I can think of is to just keep rehashing each 'exotic' magic over and over again.
That just takes each special magic and turns it into "meh"
-TW went from "A brand new invention of North America in the last century" to "one of the oldest mainstays of the galaxy dating back 50,000+ years". -Rune Magic went from "Lost to even the gods! To a half dozen races or more practice it openly and there are even formal schools and factories!"
-Biomancy went from "the rare unknown magic of a single race on a single planet which requires a specific mindset"... to "oh yeah, and the core of at least three other civilizations, two of which are utterly antithetical to the ideals of Biomancy as expressed in the first book..."

There are already a TON of exotic arts that have been mentioned in passing in books and never written up that could be explored more deeply in a PF book.
For example a really good exploration of some more of the Diabolism craft. We are told outright that modern Diabolism is scraps of one or more other greater schools that were salvaged after the Millennium of Purification.
Awesome!
Lets see some more of it!
There are several wards that are mentioned (or implied) in a few places but we don't have stats for.

There is mention in 1st edition High Seas about a demon that casts elemental spells via runic wizardry (interesting...)

Crystal magic? Shadow Magic? Expand on Sea Chanting (since that got brought over :?), More on Zodiac Magic?
Explore some of the Rifter magics to see if they can be made usable (most of them are not too bad, they just need tweeking and some work to be brought in line with the rest of the game... and several are from PF)

Or many of the other things that were purged.

I would LOVE to see those things in a PF book. I would hate to see rehashes of "Surprise, there is Biomancy/Eco-Wizardry/Herbalism/Tattoo Magic/Flesh Sculpting/Mirror Magic/Koralyte/Blue Flame/Mortification/Cloud Magic/Living Flame/Line Drawing/Fill-in-secret-and/or-super-obscure-magic-de jour-here, just no one knew (and ignore all previous statements that the magic was only found in X, or invented by Y, or a secret of Z...because retcon)...until now duh duh DUH"

[/soap box]

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Unread postPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2017 9:19 am
  

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eliakon wrote:
Reagren Wright wrote:
8-) Hmm, might have to go to South American and read up on these Elves and
Biomancy.

Please don't
Its already been WAY over used.

[/soapbox]

Spoiler:
The original book had it as a super rare, super exotic magic from one world that was so exotic the Splugorth had only just recently even heard about it...
...of course that NEVER lasts and now it is one of the basic magics of the Native Americans and then the core magic of Lemurian Society (which for some utterly bizarre reason uses the magic in exactly the opposite way that it is described as being...
Lemurians should be using Bio-Wizardry not Biomancy what with all the enslaving, reckless environmental destruction, wanton murder, torture, and what not they do with it)

There are a LOT of rare exotic magics in the Megaverse...
...but one of the WORST ideas I can think of is to just keep rehashing each 'exotic' magic over and over again.
That just takes each special magic and turns it into "meh"
-TW went from "A brand new invention of North America in the last century" to "one of the oldest mainstays of the galaxy dating back 50,000+ years". -Rune Magic went from "Lost to even the gods! To a half dozen races or more practice it openly and there are even formal schools and factories!"
-Biomancy went from "the rare unknown magic of a single race on a single planet which requires a specific mindset"... to "oh yeah, and the core of at least three other civilizations, two of which are utterly antithetical to the ideals of Biomancy as expressed in the first book..."

There are already a TON of exotic arts that have been mentioned in passing in books and never written up that could be explored more deeply in a PF book.
For example a really good exploration of some more of the Diabolism craft. We are told outright that modern Diabolism is scraps of one or more other greater schools that were salvaged after the Millennium of Purification.
Awesome!
Lets see some more of it!
There are several wards that are mentioned (or implied) in a few places but we don't have stats for.

There is mention in 1st edition High Seas about a demon that casts elemental spells via runic wizardry (interesting...)

Crystal magic? Shadow Magic? Expand on Sea Chanting (since that got brought over :?), More on Zodiac Magic?
Explore some of the Rifter magics to see if they can be made usable (most of them are not too bad, they just need tweeking and some work to be brought in line with the rest of the game... and several are from PF)

Or many of the other things that were purged.

I would LOVE to see those things in a PF book. I would hate to see rehashes of "Surprise, there is Biomancy/Eco-Wizardry/Herbalism/Tattoo Magic/Flesh Sculpting/Mirror Magic/Koralyte/Blue Flame/Mortification/Cloud Magic/Living Flame/Line Drawing/Fill-in-secret-and/or-super-obscure-magic-de jour-here, just no one knew (and ignore all previous statements that the magic was only found in X, or invented by Y, or a secret of Z...because retcon)...until now duh duh DUH"

[/soap box]


You make a good point. PF should possess as many "original" magic for its own brand than rely
on Rifts trickle down system. So let me ask you what did you think of the Waterchanter in
Bizantium? Yes he had some of the Ocean Magic spells, but it was an attempt to create a
unique O.C.C. not only for that specific region but to supplement a need for a certain O.C.C.
spot in which Water Warlocks cannot satisfy. Someone who is just more seaworthy. In future
books would you like to see us develop more exclusive magics for PF, or would you be okay
with us allowing us to play with previous magic but give us an opportunity to do something
different. For example, I become rather interested in the Herbalism from Rifts England, so is
worthy to reintroduce the O.C.C. to PF with new plants, herbs, etc or would you rather see the
O.C.C. and it magic stay in Rfits?


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Unread postPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2017 11:53 am
  

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Palladin

Joined: Sat Jul 14, 2007 9:40 pm
Posts: 8546
Comment: Palladium Books Canon is set solely by Kevin Siembieda, either in person, or by his approval of published material.
Reagren Wright wrote:
eliakon wrote:
Reagren Wright wrote:
8-) Hmm, might have to go to South American and read up on these Elves and
Biomancy.

Please don't
Its already been WAY over used.

[/soapbox]

Spoiler:
The original book had it as a super rare, super exotic magic from one world that was so exotic the Splugorth had only just recently even heard about it...
...of course that NEVER lasts and now it is one of the basic magics of the Native Americans and then the core magic of Lemurian Society (which for some utterly bizarre reason uses the magic in exactly the opposite way that it is described as being...
Lemurians should be using Bio-Wizardry not Biomancy what with all the enslaving, reckless environmental destruction, wanton murder, torture, and what not they do with it)

There are a LOT of rare exotic magics in the Megaverse...
...but one of the WORST ideas I can think of is to just keep rehashing each 'exotic' magic over and over again.
That just takes each special magic and turns it into "meh"
-TW went from "A brand new invention of North America in the last century" to "one of the oldest mainstays of the galaxy dating back 50,000+ years". -Rune Magic went from "Lost to even the gods! To a half dozen races or more practice it openly and there are even formal schools and factories!"
-Biomancy went from "the rare unknown magic of a single race on a single planet which requires a specific mindset"... to "oh yeah, and the core of at least three other civilizations, two of which are utterly antithetical to the ideals of Biomancy as expressed in the first book..."

There are already a TON of exotic arts that have been mentioned in passing in books and never written up that could be explored more deeply in a PF book.
For example a really good exploration of some more of the Diabolism craft. We are told outright that modern Diabolism is scraps of one or more other greater schools that were salvaged after the Millennium of Purification.
Awesome!
Lets see some more of it!
There are several wards that are mentioned (or implied) in a few places but we don't have stats for.

There is mention in 1st edition High Seas about a demon that casts elemental spells via runic wizardry (interesting...)

Crystal magic? Shadow Magic? Expand on Sea Chanting (since that got brought over :?), More on Zodiac Magic?
Explore some of the Rifter magics to see if they can be made usable (most of them are not too bad, they just need tweeking and some work to be brought in line with the rest of the game... and several are from PF)

Or many of the other things that were purged.

I would LOVE to see those things in a PF book. I would hate to see rehashes of "Surprise, there is Biomancy/Eco-Wizardry/Herbalism/Tattoo Magic/Flesh Sculpting/Mirror Magic/Koralyte/Blue Flame/Mortification/Cloud Magic/Living Flame/Line Drawing/Fill-in-secret-and/or-super-obscure-magic-de jour-here, just no one knew (and ignore all previous statements that the magic was only found in X, or invented by Y, or a secret of Z...because retcon)...until now duh duh DUH"

[/soap box]


You make a good point. PF should possess as many "original" magic for its own brand than rely
on Rifts trickle down system. So let me ask you what did you think of the Waterchanter in
Bizantium? Yes he had some of the Ocean Magic spells, but it was an attempt to create a
unique O.C.C. not only for that specific region but to supplement a need for a certain O.C.C.
spot in which Water Warlocks cannot satisfy. Someone who is just more seaworthy. In future
books would you like to see us develop more exclusive magics for PF, or would you be okay
with us allowing us to play with previous magic but give us an opportunity to do something
different. For example, I become rather interested in the Herbalism from Rifts England, so is
worthy to reintroduce the O.C.C. to PF with new plants, herbs, etc or would you rather see the
O.C.C. and it magic stay in Rfits?

I liked the waterchanter.
The reason I liked the Waterchanter is because it was NOT just an Ocean Wizard, and it didn't just borrow wholesale Rifts magic and wedge it in willy nilly.
I think Herbalisim would be great in Palladium. I use it every time I run it, and I make up new herbs and things left and right. In fact I have Herbalisim be one of the keys to Alchemy and explain where they get their potions.

So yes, the measured use of some of the magic works wonderfully. But it needs to be the magic that is not supposed to be super-ultra-secret that no one else ever knew...
I would be horribly disappointed to find out that the Zaranceti have Koralyte magic and that Palladium just so happens to be the second planet in the Megaverse compatible for growing it.
Just like I would be saddened to find Biomancy
Bio-Wizardry ,Blue Flame Magic ,Chi Magic, Cloud Magic, Cybermancy, Line Drawing, Living Flame, Mirror Magic, Temporal Wizardry and the rest of the exotica brigade here.

For magic that just doesn't fit thematically?
Technowizardry, Stone Magic, Tattoo Magic, Shifting, Temporal Wizardry

I would not however be shocked to find bits and pieces of Nature Magic, Herbal Magic, Eco-Magic, Rain Dancing, African Dance Magic, Witch magic (African witches and Spoiling), Mortification, Fleshsculpting, and some of Demon Magic/Blood Magic

Some things that I would expect to not see much of today... because they were purged in the Millennium of Purification?
Soul Crafting, since this sort of abomination is exactly the sort of nastiness that I can see the dwarves (and elves) having sunk too
Soulmancy/Demon Magic/Blood Magic
African Witch style magic
Spoiling Magic
Mortification Magic
Eco-Magic (too close to necromancy for a lot of peoples tastes, I can see this getting purged)

Sorry if I am ranting on this.
My favorite part of the entire Palladium system is the magic.
I love the systems, the mythos, the histories, the intertwined stories. I like untangling how it all works...
...my pet project has been working on a GUT for the whole magic system.
But as a result I tend to be a bit more... conservative than some other people when it comes to just tossing out the old rules and just "doing what ever sounds cool"

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Unread postPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2017 9:17 pm
  

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Hero

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Comment: Kill it with Fire.
I use Herbalism a lot too, druids, priests and healers tend to be best and it uses plant/farm lore and the herbalism skill out of yin sloth. I make up magical plants that have good and bad side effects and the herbalist tries to remove the bad effects and keep the good effects. Some funny potions have been made that's for sure.
I think palladium should have more mystic plants.


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Unread postPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2017 10:21 pm
  

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I agree that the PF realm should have it's own unique types of magic from the time of a K magics. Even if they are presented lost magics.

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Unread postPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 8:59 am
  

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drewkitty ~..~ wrote:
I agree that the PF realm should have it's own unique types of magic from the time of a K magics. Even if they are presented lost magics.

Which is why we need a Time of a Thousand Magics book!
I agree with a lot of what eliakon says, except for stone magic. There is already a basis for its existence on Palladium. While it is likely forgotten, there are probably enough clues for someone to develop it, or the possibility of Atlantean explorers looking for lost artifacts etc visiting.


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Unread postPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 1:32 pm
  

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Palladin

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Comment: Palladium Books Canon is set solely by Kevin Siembieda, either in person, or by his approval of published material.
Whiskeyjack wrote:
drewkitty ~..~ wrote:
I agree that the PF realm should have it's own unique types of magic from the time of a K magics. Even if they are presented lost magics.

Which is why we need a Time of a Thousand Magics book!
I agree with a lot of what eliakon says, except for stone magic. There is already a basis for its existence on Palladium. While it is likely forgotten, there are probably enough clues for someone to develop it, or the possibility of Atlantean explorers looking for lost artifacts etc visiting.

There are pyramids about yes.
I am not convinced that you can reverse engineer the entire art just by looking at a pyramid.
The big reason that I am against stone magic is that its core abilities are antithetical to the basis of the setting.
Huge pyramids the size of small cities.
Cheap easy dimensional travel that is automatically connected to places like Rifts Earth, the Three Galaxies and the like.
Vast stone works simply and easily performed by small groups.

Stone Magic appearing in PF would result in the world being utterly unrecognizable in just a handful of years.

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Edmund Burke wrote:
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."


It's RIFTS Earth; the impossible happens before breakfast, twice on Tuesdays. And if it hasn't, then the GM hasn't tried hard enough and the players are lazy. :D -DhAkael

Knowledge is Power, Power Corrupts, Study Hard


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Unread postPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 6:18 pm
  

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Dungeon Crawler

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eliakon wrote:
Whiskeyjack wrote:
drewkitty ~..~ wrote:
I agree that the PF realm should have it's own unique types of magic from the time of a K magics. Even if they are presented lost magics.

Which is why we need a Time of a Thousand Magics book!
I agree with a lot of what eliakon says, except for stone magic. There is already a basis for its existence on Palladium. While it is likely forgotten, there are probably enough clues for someone to develop it, or the possibility of Atlantean explorers looking for lost artifacts etc visiting.

There are pyramids about yes.
I am not convinced that you can reverse engineer the entire art just by looking at a pyramid.
The big reason that I am against stone magic is that its core abilities are antithetical to the basis of the setting.
Huge pyramids the size of small cities.
Cheap easy dimensional travel that is automatically connected to places like Rifts Earth, the Three Galaxies and the like.
Vast stone works simply and easily performed by small groups.

Stone Magic appearing in PF would result in the world being utterly unrecognizable in just a handful of years.


I was thinking more along the lines of someone exploring the pyramids and suspecting that they serve other purposes and researching old tomes, etc and possibly travelling off world in search of answers.

I don't think stone magic itself would alter PF at all. There are too many powerful beings that want Palladium to remain more or less unchanged. The Church of Light & Dark, Vald Tegor, Chiang Ku dragons, even Dragonwright would oppose extensive use of dimensional pyramids. The occasional visiting group of explorers would likely be ignored.


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Unread postPosted: Tue Jul 18, 2017 12:04 pm
  

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Comment: My comments do not necessarily represent the views of Palladium Books.
Another thought: The ABSENCE of stone magic would heavily alter Palladium. Pyramids buried for 10,000 and more years... maybe since the Age of Light... that keep the ley lines relatively quiescent and the Old Ones in hibernation, starved for power. Get into one of these hidden pyramids, and you've got TONS of power available, and access to a network of teleportation destinations... if you can figure out how to use it. Teleport from pyramid to pyramid, trying to control them, while someone else tries to destroy them.

There's some shades of Morrowind and the Propylon index, there, but it sounds like the fun basis for a campaign.

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Unread postPosted: Tue Jul 18, 2017 12:33 pm
  

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Palladin

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Comment: Palladium Books Canon is set solely by Kevin Siembieda, either in person, or by his approval of published material.
The problem is that any and all pyramids are connected to every and all other pyramids.
From any pyramid you can open a rift to any other pyramid.
Its already a bit of a stretch (to me) to justify why no one has been using the ones that are already there (seriously Palladium is the sort of place that the Splugorth should have moved in and taken over thousands of years ago. I mean one Splugorth beat up the entire Hindu pantheon and took over their dimension... Palladium isn't anywhere near as well defended AND is one of the places that is supposedly on the "Automatic must takeover at all costs" list (It has Gantrinium, and was the site of active use of rune magic... the Dwarven empire should have megaversally ended with the Splugorth showing up at the pyramids and enslaving everyone for their rune factories... :badbad:

I don't think we need to feed that further and just add more use of stone magic and just keep going with the "Well there is this amazing plot armor that protects Palladium"
And no, being where the Old Ones were defeated is not a good reason to leave it alone.
1) we already know that the Pantheon of Light and Dark, Dyvall, Hades, and several other pantheons are all involved up to their eyeballs on Palladium
2) There are a lot of factions that are going to feel that the current situation is, to be frank, stupid. The security on the seals is utterly lax and basically just begging for the Old Ones to be released. I am surprised that more beings have not tried to simply move in, depopulate the whole planet and install a competent guard force... (hmmm, now there is an interesting campaign seed *ponders*)

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Edmund Burke wrote:
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."


It's RIFTS Earth; the impossible happens before breakfast, twice on Tuesdays. And if it hasn't, then the GM hasn't tried hard enough and the players are lazy. :D -DhAkael

Knowledge is Power, Power Corrupts, Study Hard


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Unread postPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2017 3:19 am
  

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Hero

Joined: Sun Feb 25, 2007 11:11 pm
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eliakon wrote:
The problem is that any and all pyramids are connected to every and all other pyramids.
From any pyramid you can open a rift to any other pyramid.
Its already a bit of a stretch (to me) to justify why no one has been using the ones that are already there (seriously Palladium is the sort of place that the Splugorth should have moved in and taken over thousands of years ago. I mean one Splugorth beat up the entire Hindu pantheon and took over their dimension... Palladium isn't anywhere near as well defended AND is one of the places that is supposedly on the "Automatic must takeover at all costs" list (It has Gantrinium, and was the site of active use of rune magic... the Dwarven empire should have megaversally ended with the Splugorth showing up at the pyramids and enslaving everyone for their rune factories... :badbad:

I don't think we need to feed that further and just add more use of stone magic and just keep going with the "Well there is this amazing plot armor that protects Palladium"
And no, being where the Old Ones were defeated is not a good reason to leave it alone.
1) we already know that the Pantheon of Light and Dark, Dyvall, Hades, and several other pantheons are all involved up to their eyeballs on Palladium
2) There are a lot of factions that are going to feel that the current situation is, to be frank, stupid. The security on the seals is utterly lax and basically just begging for the Old Ones to be released. I am surprised that more beings have not tried to simply move in, depopulate the whole planet and install a competent guard force... (hmmm, now there is an interesting campaign seed *ponders*)


Lemuria has proven that not all Pyramids need to be dimensional gateways. The powers that pyramids possess tend to reflect the nature of the culture the stone master is from. Atlantean (and Splugorth) Stone Masters created pyramids that allow for dimensional travel and exploration because that is what Atlantean (and Splugorth) culture tends to value. Lemurian Stone Masters created pyramids that promoted healing and allowed them to delve into the mysteries of life. While it isn't fully described what changes this makes to their specific kinds of Pyramids, it does show that there is more to Stone Magic and Pyramids than we currently know... allowing for a unique variant that could have developed on Palladium that may not be known on other worlds.

Perhaps the reason that Palladium remains unspoiled by the likes of the Splugorth or any number of other world conquerors is because the Pyramids of Palladium cloak their world from many forms of detection. This wouldn't really prevent people from coming or going to Palladium... especially through known open dimensional portals... but merely makes detecting Palladium difficult (like trying to spot a black ship in the void of space... difficult, but not impossible if one knows what to look for). Such pyramids are unlikely to possess dimensional powers... as opening portals is known to attract attention... and thus teleporting from one pyramid to another is also likely not to be part of the Pyramids of Palladium abilities.

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Unread postPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2017 2:36 pm
  

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The fact that the pyramids on Palladium were built by Atlanteans fleeing the cataclysm, I would think that they would have dimensional travelling abilities.
I'm not positive on all the functions of pyramids. It's been awhile since I read Atlantis, and I don't have Lemuria. Is it possible for a pyramid to go dormant without someone there?
I still think the simple fact that there are so many pantheons that consider Palladium as their "home turf" since many of them came into being there or became gods there while fighting the old ones, that any one power trying to take over would quickly be annihilated by the combined might of them all.


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Unread postPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2017 7:59 pm
  

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Yet the ley lines in PF are no where near the energy levels they are in Rifts Earth
(accept the underwater ones in the Sea of Despair and that's because their so
densely pack together and just a bit unusual). I'm betting Stone Magic and use of
Pyramids disappeared way back in the Time of a Thousand Magicks because of the
drop in ley line activity. If Atlantean did visit PF it was beyond recorded history, way
back further then the Elves remember. I'm thinking unless Kevin says so in one of the
Old Kingdom books or LoD3 Stone Magic is one of the forgotton ones.


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Unread postPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2017 8:11 pm
  

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Champion

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Kargan3033 wrote:
I have a few question I'd like to hear your thoughts on when it comes to the elves and dwarves before the elf/dwarf war

1:Would it be safe to say the elves would be more inclined to Biomancy then dwarves, if so how advance would their Biomancy be?

2:How likely would be to find a long abandoned pre-war elf or dwarf city/outpost also what state would the lost city/outpost be and where would it be?

3:Given the raw power and destructiveness of the Elf/Dwarf war and the length of the war how likely would it be that elven or dwarven WMDs would be found, what kind would it be and how powerful would it be?( biomancy constructs/bio weapons for the elves and some thing different for the dwarves)


1. I think dwarves have a greater reverence for nature in Palladium Fantasy than in most other fantasy IPs. I was particularly struck by their respect for it in the section on The Great Oak in the recent Bizantium book. That said, there's also the group of elves who live the simple life in the Vequerrel Woodland in the Western Empire. I'd say that, overall, dwarves would be more inclined to magic power through crafting, while elves would be more inclined to magic power through spells/rituals. Biomancy is something of a hybrid discipline, so I'm guessing it would be something of an even split.

2. I don't think it would be hard to find abandoned ruins from that era. Surface dwellings would likely either be overgrown or trashed/picked clean. Underground outposts might be in relatively good condition if sealed and hidden.

3. Island at the Edge of the World includes the superweapon that pasted Baalgor, but it looks like you're seeking more of a tactical weapon. You can find some freakishly powerful weapons from that era in Library at Bletherad and Wolfen Empire. There would be a wide variety of weapons on both sides. Dwarf weapons from the end of the wars would likely be particularly nasty, as they crossed all kinds of moral lines as they got desperate.

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Unread postPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2017 10:55 pm
  

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Comment: Kill it with Fire.
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