Metamorphosis Human.

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say652
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Metamorphosis Human.

Unread post by say652 »

If used on a full conversion cyborg, do my Bionic attributes still apply?
Internal bionic weapon Systems?
Is there a way to make the spell permanent?
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ShadowLogan
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Re: Metamorphosis Human.

Unread post by ShadowLogan »

There are ways to make the spell permanent (most obvious is to get a Permanency ward placed on the subject while the spell is active).

That said, a FCB is likely immune to metamorphosis spells because the spell works on the organic flesh, so the spell could only metamorphosize the face (and internal organs if any) if it even worked on it at all.
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Re: Metamorphosis Human.

Unread post by TagsPB »

Unless of course you were to get a layer of flesh/skin put over your bionic armor .......... or have ir made of "living" material
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Re: Metamorphosis Human.

Unread post by drewkitty ~..~ »

I would most likely make the magic automatically fail to effect the FC borg.

Unless the Char wanted it and it was to make them into an un-augmented human again. With the permanency a part of the ritual.


Changes my mind.

The spell would only effect the Flesh and Blood parts of the char….if it worked at all. Thus, the bionic and cybernetice parts would not be effected by this spell.

The total effect of the spell would be to make the char be able to pass as a different borg.

This is an opinion.

The auto-spell-fail is the normal outcome for magic cast on borgs.
Last edited by drewkitty ~..~ on Fri Nov 18, 2016 4:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Metamorphosis Human.

Unread post by Nekira Sudacne »

The spell says outright that only the apperance changes, and nothing about attributes changes.

That settles the question right there. yes it works on full conversion borgs. No, they lose nothing whatsoever by doing so and retain use of all their systems. it simply makes the bionics appear to be normal flesh and blood. it does not require one to have flesh and blood to use. for that matter it dosn't require one to have a body at all. cast it on an Entity, it'd still work. but as it's apperance only and not physical, it would simply be a human-looking but still incorporeal being.

A borg would still feel and smell like a borg as well. also does not change weight, so they would still weigh half a ton.
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Re: Metamorphosis Human.

Unread post by ShadowLogan »

Nekira Sudacne wrote:The spell says outright that only the apperance changes, and nothing about attributes changes.

That settles the question right there. yes it works on full conversion borgs. No, they lose nothing whatsoever by doing so and retain use of all their systems. it simply makes the bionics appear to be normal flesh and blood. it does not require one to have flesh and blood to use. for that matter it dosn't require one to have a body at all. cast it on an Entity, it'd still work. but as it's apperance only and not physical, it would simply be a human-looking but still incorporeal being.

A borg would still feel and smell like a borg as well. also does not change weight, so they would still weigh half a ton.

I have to disagree, it isn't strictly an illusion spell (which I would be fine with). The text is clear that you are actually "altering his or her physical structure" not the things they carry/wear (which implants could be considered), so at best you can alter your organic appearance, but not the mechanical with this spell.
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Re: Metamorphosis Human.

Unread post by Nekira Sudacne »

ShadowLogan wrote:
Nekira Sudacne wrote:The spell says outright that only the apperance changes, and nothing about attributes changes.

That settles the question right there. yes it works on full conversion borgs. No, they lose nothing whatsoever by doing so and retain use of all their systems. it simply makes the bionics appear to be normal flesh and blood. it does not require one to have flesh and blood to use. for that matter it dosn't require one to have a body at all. cast it on an Entity, it'd still work. but as it's apperance only and not physical, it would simply be a human-looking but still incorporeal being.

A borg would still feel and smell like a borg as well. also does not change weight, so they would still weigh half a ton.

I have to disagree, it isn't strictly an illusion spell (which I would be fine with). The text is clear that you are actually "altering his or her physical structure" not the things they carry/wear (which implants could be considered), so at best you can alter your organic appearance, but not the mechanical with this spell.


I didn't say it was an illusion, anywhere. I said it was cosmetic only because your underlying abilities and stats don't change. An entity really would turn into a human. that is still invisible and incorporeal.
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Re: Metamorphosis Human.

Unread post by drewkitty ~..~ »

Remember that the Metamorphosis spells in canon do not make Real changes. They just change the form of the target for a duration.
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Re: Metamorphosis Human.

Unread post by eliakon »

I would say no it can't be affected by the spell in the first place.
The reason I say that is that the 'Borg is described as "The new, bionic body is effectively a fully functioning robot that responds to the human brain"
The same logic that would make it immune to things like Paralysis-Lesser or Bio-Manipulation or healing spells would to me make it immune to Metamorphosis, to wit you can not affect robots with either one.

The only part of a 'borg that can be affected by such things is the brain, which is why you can affect a 'borg with an illusion, or a fear spell or the like... spells that affect the mind, or the soul, or that affect objects work just fine.
But spells that affect living things do not.
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Re: Metamorphosis Human.

Unread post by ShadowLogan »

Nekira Sudacne wrote:
ShadowLogan wrote:
Nekira Sudacne wrote:The spell says outright that only the apperance changes, and nothing about attributes changes.

That settles the question right there. yes it works on full conversion borgs. No, they lose nothing whatsoever by doing so and retain use of all their systems. it simply makes the bionics appear to be normal flesh and blood. it does not require one to have flesh and blood to use. for that matter it dosn't require one to have a body at all. cast it on an Entity, it'd still work. but as it's apperance only and not physical, it would simply be a human-looking but still incorporeal being.

A borg would still feel and smell like a borg as well. also does not change weight, so they would still weigh half a ton.

I have to disagree, it isn't strictly an illusion spell (which I would be fine with). The text is clear that you are actually "altering his or her physical structure" not the things they carry/wear (which implants could be considered), so at best you can alter your organic appearance, but not the mechanical with this spell.


I didn't say it was an illusion, anywhere. I said it was cosmetic only because your underlying abilities and stats don't change. An entity really would turn into a human. that is still invisible and incorporeal.

Well if it was just the appearance changes (as you indicated), that would be an illusion spell. However the text is clear that it isn't just an appearance change, there are changes to the physical structure also occurring.

Based on Metamorph: Animal though, there are limits to what gets influenced by that particular spell type. Racial versions of Metamorph also seem to place limits on what can and can not be affected.
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Re: Metamorphosis Human.

Unread post by say652 »

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:Remember that the Metamorphosis spells in canon do not make Real changes. They just change the form of the target for a duration.


Which is why i asked if it would affect a cyborg. Great way to sneak a tough opponent in a barfight or setup a prison break.
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Re: Metamorphosis Human.

Unread post by Nekira Sudacne »

ShadowLogan wrote:
Nekira Sudacne wrote:
ShadowLogan wrote:
Nekira Sudacne wrote:The spell says outright that only the apperance changes, and nothing about attributes changes.

That settles the question right there. yes it works on full conversion borgs. No, they lose nothing whatsoever by doing so and retain use of all their systems. it simply makes the bionics appear to be normal flesh and blood. it does not require one to have flesh and blood to use. for that matter it dosn't require one to have a body at all. cast it on an Entity, it'd still work. but as it's apperance only and not physical, it would simply be a human-looking but still incorporeal being.

A borg would still feel and smell like a borg as well. also does not change weight, so they would still weigh half a ton.

I have to disagree, it isn't strictly an illusion spell (which I would be fine with). The text is clear that you are actually "altering his or her physical structure" not the things they carry/wear (which implants could be considered), so at best you can alter your organic appearance, but not the mechanical with this spell.


I didn't say it was an illusion, anywhere. I said it was cosmetic only because your underlying abilities and stats don't change. An entity really would turn into a human. that is still invisible and incorporeal.

Well if it was just the appearance changes (as you indicated), that would be an illusion spell. However the text is clear that it isn't just an appearance change, there are changes to the physical structure also occurring.

Based on Metamorph: Animal though, there are limits to what gets influenced by that particular spell type. Racial versions of Metamorph also seem to place limits on what can and can not be affected.


Again, I did not say it was an illusion. Stop putting words in my mouth.

I SAID the changes do not effect their baseline abilities or physical structure. that is a completely different statement. you can metamorph a huge, bulky beefcake juicer to look like a tiny waif of a girl, but they would still be strong enough throw a barrel of oil at your head from across the room. his physical structure HAS changed. it just hasn't effected his strength at all, even if it looks like it should have. That does not make it an illusion.
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Re: Metamorphosis Human.

Unread post by ShadowLogan »

You are correct Nekira, you did not specifically state it was an illusion spell. I do not dispute that. However, you did imply it was one because it resulted in just an appearance change and did not mention the changes to the physical structure (not the same as attributes). Ex: Fool's Gold is an Illusion Spell because all it does it change the appearance.

I do not think though that Metamorphosis spells allow for them to effect implants. 2 of the 4 Wizard Invocations for Metamorphosis leave the target naked when the spell ends, and the other two don't mention it all all. In fact Metamorphosis: Human (and Superior) are not said to alter the clothes you are wearing, which indicates that implants would not be effected by the spell.

Meaning that a FCB, Juicer, or Crazy (for example) can't use the spell to make themselves look normal (well maybe the Crazy if they use the hair to hide the knobs), but could certainly use it to look like someone else, but they can't hide their implants since their attire can't be changed why should their implants?
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Re: Metamorphosis Human.

Unread post by Axelmania »

Nekira Sudacne wrote:I said it was cosmetic only because your underlying abilities and stats don't change. An entity really would turn into a human. that is still invisible and incorporeal.

Incorporeal I agree with, but isn't invisibility part of appearance/cosmetics?
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Re: Metamorphosis Human.

Unread post by Nekira Sudacne »

Axelmania wrote:
Nekira Sudacne wrote:I said it was cosmetic only because your underlying abilities and stats don't change. An entity really would turn into a human. that is still invisible and incorporeal.

Incorporeal I agree with, but isn't invisibility part of appearance/cosmetics?


In the case of the entity, incoporeal is a physical structure trait. there's nothing solid for light to bounce off of, so light would pass through the new human shape. if you used See the Invisible, you would see the entity in a human shape, rather than the typical white blob of an entity.

This could actually be an amusing form of deceit in some cases. for example, beings like dragon hatchlings have see the invisible always as a natural ability, and so might not be aware the "person" they are talking to is actually a possessing entity no one else can see.
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Re: Metamorphosis Human.

Unread post by Mack »

eliakon wrote:I would say no it can't be affected by the spell in the first place.
The reason I say that is that the 'Borg is described as "The new, bionic body is effectively a fully functioning robot that responds to the human brain"
The same logic that would make it immune to things like Paralysis-Lesser or Bio-Manipulation or healing spells would to me make it immune to Metamorphosis, to wit you can not affect robots with either one.

The only part of a 'borg that can be affected by such things is the brain, which is why you can affect a 'borg with an illusion, or a fear spell or the like... spells that affect the mind, or the soul, or that affect objects work just fine.
But spells that affect living things do not.


Agreed. Borgs would be immune to the spell.
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