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Unread postPosted: Thu Mar 13, 2014 2:57 pm
  

Palladin

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rat_bastard wrote:
Obviously that is 100% subjective based on who his allies are, who your enemies are, how they are equipped, what spells you have and how combat begins. Still a good buff is almost always better than som mere damage dealing spell.


i'm not arguing that fact. i'm merely pointing out that adding a couple of good buff spells is not going to change the current situation, which is that mages can already buff someone into a nigh-unstoppable juggernaut, with or without ocean magic. adding ocean magic to standard invocations isn't going to change much, if anything, when it comes to that. if you only take 75 damage during a fight, it doesn't matter whether you had 100 MDC or 200 MDC or even 10,000 MDC worth of added protection. they all work equally well, and if it takes 1 action to give 100 MDC and just 2 actions for 10,000 MDC, spending that second action on the better protection is a wasted action. same thing if it costs 10 PPE for the 100 MDC, or 11 PPE for the 10,000 PPE. now, if it was *that* drastic of a difference, sure you'd regularly use the slightly more expensive option, because you don't know in advance you're only going to take 75 MDC.

but as it stands... there are already amazing buffs available. ocean magic isn't adding anything particularly awe-inspiring. it will add some stuff that will be situationally useful, and in those situations, will be slightly more powerful. the rest of the time, it won't add anything at all.


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Unread postPosted: Mon Mar 17, 2014 2:21 pm
  

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In general, ratty's guide is pretty down on healing spells (not without reason). However, I would recommend that every mage pickup at least one healing spell. It could mean the difference between life and death for a wounded comrade. While the spell may not fix all the damage, it very well could stabilize the victim long enough to get to better care.

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Unread postPosted: Mon Mar 17, 2014 2:27 pm
  

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Mack wrote:
In general, ratty's guide is pretty down on healing spells (not without reason). However, I would recommend that every mage pickup at least one healing spell. It could mean the difference between life and death for a wounded comrade. While the spell may not fix all the damage, it very well could stabilize the victim long enough to get to better care.



I would agree although in the rifts system unless the GM's are running some alternate damage rules typically a player is either full or close to full health or dead and not a whole lot in between. Really where healing spells should be useful is healing natural MDC beings who are more likely actually be taking physical damage and not just equipment damage but only a couple magic spells even work on MDC beings and most psi powers don't either.

It is just a weird artifact of the MDC system that healing really has almost no niche in it.


One weird anecdote is the character in any group I have played who actually could make good use of healing powers of psi characters and our mage was a were panther. The mage at one point was like omg my healing spells finally feel useful which was nice for him but just seemed really odd that healing powers are best used on some really odd ball specialty case beings.


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Unread postPosted: Mon Mar 17, 2014 3:16 pm
  

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Note the following is talking about the magics as presented and not spell conversions. Thus any arguments that they can be converted to other forms of magic are moot because those said converted spells are the type of magic they ended up as.

Spells converted to/from specialty magics are 5 levels higher and cost about 2.5 times as much PPE as the original spell.

Common magic (invocations)[Traditional Spell Magic as RB has labeled them]: these are incantation spells, the most common format for spells to be in. Any generalized mage can cast any of these spells.

Combat Magic Spells: These are a subset of invocations but are only found in the Rifts setting and even then they are rare even in that setting.

Elemental Spells (warlock magic): These are spells that are granted to a Warlock by their elemental powers. These are not common magic invocations. While conversions can be made of them, but warlocks will hunt a mage with converted elements spells down.

Necromancy (Bone and traditional): These are specialized invocation spells that can be accessed by common magic mages but cost double the PPE when used.

Biomancy: can not be learned by anyone that does not have an intimate connection to nature.
~Lemura Biomancy (creature modifications) Specialty magic. There are no spells, only workings. Can not be learned by mages that can't do rituals and anyone that does not have an intimate connection to nature..

Bio-wizaredy: Specialty magic. Can not be learned by a PC character.

Ocean Magic: these are spells of aquatic mage types found in Rifts underseas. There is no specific text allowing any other mage types to learn these spells. But the text presumes that only Sea Druids, Ocean mages and other aquatic magic users can acquire them.

Herb Magic: Specialty magic. There are not spells only workings. Can not be learned by mages that cannot do rituals.

Scathach Magic: Specialty magic. There are no spells, only workings. Can not be learned by mages that can't do rituals.

Kuznya Magic: Specialty magic. There are no spells, only workings. Can not be learned by mages that can't do rituals.

Eco-Wizard Magic: Specialty magic. There are no spells, only workings. Can not be learned by mages that can't do rituals.

Stone Magic: Specialty magic. There are no spells, only pulling of magic out of gems & stones.

Nature Magic (russian): Secret Magic, can not be learned by mages that are not of the Old Believer class

Living Fire Magic (Russian): "is Exclusive to the Fire Sorcerer" (direct quote)

African Witch Magic: Unique to the A. Witch.

Native American shamanistic Magic: these are rituals and can not be learned by mages that can't do rituals.

tattoo magic: The are created by Tattoo Masters and can not be cast as spells. Mages that can not perform rituals can not learn tattoo magic.

Shamanistic Magic (africa): these are rituals and can not be learned by mages that can't do rituals.

Blue fire magic: rare magic, common magic mages can learn these spells, but there needs to be a charter background to explain how they com to know them because they are very rare.

TW magic: These are creations of TW's and can not cast as spells.

Korallyte Shaping Magic: Rare ocean magic, ocean magic mages can learn these spells, but there needs to be a charter background to explain how they com to know them because they are very rare.

Temporal Magic: rare magic, common magic mages can learn these spells, but there needs to be a charter background to explain how they come to know them because they are very rare. Can not be figured out/created by non-Temporal Mages on their own till they are level 9.

(Nazca) Line Drawings: Specialty magic can not be taught to common magic mages as invocations.
Mages can learn the "How To" of this magic if taught by a NLD practitioner.
-----------
Mirror Magic (NS:TtGD) Specialty magic can not be taught to common magic mages.

Fleshsculpter Magic (NS:TtGD) Specialty magic can not be taught to common magic mages.
-----------
Alchemic magic (PFRPG): Specialty magic. Can not be learned by a PC char.

Druidic Magic (PFRPG): Can not be learned by other magic users unless they become a druid. (This type of magic lacks the range of spells detailed other mage types have.)

Zodiac Magic (PFRPG: R50): Specialty magic can not be taught to common magic mages.

Priest Prayers (PFRPG): Are granted magic and can not be learned or taught.

Rune magic (PFRPG): Specialty magic can not be taught to common magic mages as invocations.
Mages can learn the "How To" of this magic if taught by a practitioner (diobolist class).

Rune Magic (PFRPG)): Specialty magic. Can not be learned by a PC char.

Crystal Magic (PFRPG): can not be leaned by magic users of any stripe. This is a Type of psionics.
-----------
Space Magic (3G & HU:AU, AU:GG): rare magic, common magic mages can learn these spells, but there needs to be a charter background to explain how they com to know them because they are very rare.

Blood Magic (3G):
-----------
Chi Magic (MC): Specialty magic can not be taught to common magic mages as Invocations.
Can be taught to a common mage if they have learned to control Chi. (rifts chars can not acquire these spells if they have not traveled to the N&S world and have studied under a Chi Master to be able to control their chi)

Geomantic Magic(MC): these are a specialized sub-set of Chi spells.

Living Chi Magic (MC): these are a specialized sub-set of Chi spells.

Celestial Calligraphy Magic (MC): Specialty magic can not be taught to common magic mages as a invocation.
Mages can learn the "How To" of this magic if taught by a CC practitioner to store their own magic spells. Or if they can learn Chi magic, learn the Chi magic spell.
----------
Chaos Magic: Is a specialty magic practiced by a set of Intuitive magic users in a very high ambient PPE worlds. Mages that are linked to Ley Lines can learn/create spells that create the same effects as one of their spells. Can not be taught to other mages.
(Note: "linked to LL" means the same as when talking about how Warlocks are "linked to their element" or like how a Mirror mage is linked to the mirrorwall. And that the Ambient PPE of Rifts earth has dropped since the time when these magic users were roaming RE just after the coming of the rifts.)

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Last edited by drewkitty ~..~ on Wed Mar 19, 2014 2:56 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Unread postPosted: Mon Mar 17, 2014 3:22 pm
  

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drewkitty ~..~ wrote:
Elemental Spells (warlock magic): These are spells that are granted to a Warlock by their elemental powers. These are not common magic invocations. While conversions can be made of them, but warlocks will hunt a mage with converted elements spells down.

Can you give me a reference for the underlined part?

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Unread postPosted: Mon Mar 17, 2014 3:30 pm
  

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Drew, could you be more precise in the source of the magics you list? I have no idea where the eco wizard, blood mage and zodiac wizard stem from.

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Unread postPosted: Mon Mar 17, 2014 3:49 pm
  

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drewkitty ~..~ wrote:
Temporal Magic: rare magic, common magic mages can learn these spells, but there needs to be a charter background to explain how they com to know them because they are very rare.


I don't think that accurately describes what the books say. The books say that only high level casters can learn Temporal magic if they're not one of the Temporal classes. Your description seems to lose the level requirement (I don't have my books, but as I recall the required level was 9). Also, I don't know where you get the idea that Temporal Magic is excessively rare in the Megaverse.

--flatline

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Unread postPosted: Mon Mar 17, 2014 3:51 pm
  

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Svartalf wrote:
Drew, could you be more precise in the source of the magics you list? I have no idea where the eco wizard, blood mage and zodiac wizard stem from.



Eco wizards are from the dinosaur swamp and adventures in the dinosaur swamp books. I believe blood mages and zodiac wizards are from rifters.


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Unread postPosted: Mon Mar 17, 2014 4:40 pm
  

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kaid wrote:
Svartalf wrote:
Drew, could you be more precise in the source of the magics you list? I have no idea where the eco wizard, blood mage and zodiac wizard stem from.



Eco wizards are from the dinosaur swamp and adventures in the dinosaur swamp books. I believe blood mages and zodiac wizards are from rifters.

Zodiac Magic is in Rifter #50, but its an official addition
Blood Magic is from Dimensional Outbreak

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Unread postPosted: Tue Mar 18, 2014 10:47 am
  

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flatline wrote:
I don't think that accurately describes what the books say. The books say that only high level casters can learn Temporal magic if they're not one of the Temporal classes. Your description seems to lose the level requirement (I don't have my books, but as I recall the required level was 9). Also, I don't know where you get the idea that Temporal Magic is excessively rare in the Megaverse.

--flatline

Regarding rarity:
Page 66 of World Book 3: England, in the OCC write up for the Temporal Wizard.
Specifically, the following sentence in the second paragraph; "The rare temporal spells are closely guarded secrets.", and before that in the first paragraph that starts the Temporal Magic section of the book the following sentence states; "Temporal magic spells are unique and available only to these O.C.C.'s"

Also, concerning the level requirement for non-Temporal OCC's to learn temporal spells, flatline is correct. It's 9th level or better, for spellcaster that can learn new magic, to be afforded the opportunity to learn Temporal Magic, if a Temporal Wizard or Temporal Raider decides to teach a temporal spell for whatever reason (and it had better be a good one). Again this is described in the first paragraph of the section.

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Unread postPosted: Tue Mar 18, 2014 12:39 pm
  

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I just don't have the time to go through ALL the spells and give my opinion but I wanted to touch on some. I'll choose to go with Earth magic because just about every weekend for almost two years I've played an Earth Warlock.

Create Wood (5-10) If you can answer yes to the following questions then this spell is vital: Do you have the carpentry skill, do you have the whittling/sculpting skill and do you have the Ironwood spell? If you answered yes to these questions then this spell is for you! otherwise its really circumstantial.

So you'd think... However, I only got the ironwood spell last weekend or the weekend before and I still have not cast it. However, you'd be SURPRISED just how often I've used this specific spell (Don't worry, so was I!) and not just for constructing cheap shelters, but trade, fire, and serving as crude bridges over chasms and long drops. Its very, very handy.

Dowsing (2) Congratulations, you can find water.

Air and Water are the only "holes" in the the Earth Warlock, which is to mean I can be entirely self-sufficient... EXCEPT I cannot create Air or Water. This means that the ability to find water is very handy, I'll admit it is rather circumstantial but its an important circumstance. It helps you know how close you are to underground rivers (having a tunnel flooded sucks and you might be able to walk through stone but you can still drown!) and find water when its scarce.

Dust Storm (5) Another smoke and something else spell, which is better than a smoke spell.

Saved my life on 8 separate occasions and has helped me win countless battles. Essentially anyone further than 10 feet away counts as "Shooting Wild" at me, yes please. Super Awesome.

Dust Storm as per a 5th level Warlock Caster, Image 1
Dust Storm as per a 5th level Warlock Caster, Image 2

Fool's Gold (5) Kanye's instant bling is just not that valuable a spell, the best use I can think of for it is to make armor and vehicles look gold for formal occasions, not scamming people.

Yeah, I admit fool's gold would be better if it was a little better mechanically. Still, its "neat".

Identify Minerals (3) Earth Warlocks get this skill as a class ability at first level.

Agreed.

Identify Plants (3) There are any number of devices and a secondary skill that generally does this, but it could be useful because it can identify the plant ingredients in compounds as well.

Again, they get this as a class ability but I was kicking myself for not having it while we were on our stint in England. We encountered a few strange things and a couple of plant monsters no one recognized and it would've been nice knowing what to expect and what we could and could not eat.

Mystic Fulcrum (3) Fascinating for techno wizards, useless for everyone else.

Lies. Gruz (my Earth Warlock) is a Troll and this spell in conjunction with his natural strength makes him strong enough to pick up small trucks and put them down on top of people who cannot lift them. It is an amazing spell. It was the whole reason I even ended up picking the Earth Warlock O.C.C. :lol:

How much Dirt Gruz can lift normally
How much Dirt Gruz can lift with Mystic Fulcrum

Rock to Mud (6) Very very circumstantial.

Yes, I've yet to have a use for it but I've not had a battle in rocky terrain since learning it. The ability to make a path slippery I figured will make it difficult for myself and my companions to be followed. So, although its circumstantial it could easily be one of those circumstantial where it REALLY makes a big difference.

Rot Wood (4) Not the most useful of spells but some people have wooden magic items or wooden gun stocks or armor. Very very circumstantial.

Do not know this spell so I cannot comment on it. Its most obvious application is rotting the wood in someone's house or domicile. Even a single casting is enough to make a house "unsafe" even if it doesn't bring it crashing down.

Shatter (3) Rocks, sticks, boots, sopranos, sudden temperature change and the ground *opens envelope* Things that break glass and fragile ceramics for free.

Don't know it, see no real use for it. Especially when I am limited to three spells per level of experience.

Level 2
Create Dirt or Clay (6) If you have skills that make use of dirt or clay then this can be a lot of fun, otherwise this spell is not that helpful.

This is a wrong assumption to make. This spell has saved my ass nearly as much as Dust Storm has. How? The sheer amount of dirt it creates and the area/range I can create it within. It not only lets me "bog down" my opponents by dumping 50-350 pounds of earth on someone's head (per casting) but I can also use it to smother fires, soak up/cover acids and other harmful liquids. Plus, it lets you do all sorts of neat stuff like fill hallways with soft earth so you can see if people/things have been coming and going while you're not there. Oh, and once I was able to use it to determine where a dangerous oxygen leak was so we could plug it before we lost all our air.

Create Dirt as a 5th level Earth Warlock

Dirt to Clay (6) Just create dirt or clay.

You cant create dirt where there is already dirt. However, using this spell you can transmute pre-existing dirt/earth into clay. The transformation is permanent. This is great for battlefield traps, especially against horses and other mounted cavalry, tanks, giant robots, and other super-heavy vehicles.

Dirt to sand (6) Why would you do that?

Same reason as above, except even more effective or maybe you want some glass.

Grow plants (8) With the right skills or allies this is a magnificent background spell, but keep in mind it increases crop yield, it does not make a seed grow into a mighty oak before your eyes.

I once made an Earth Warlock Ganka. :angel:

Hopping Stones (6) Wow, you can make rocks throw themselves. Almost as good as freezing water.

Actually, freezing water is better. Hopping Stones is virtually useless unless you are using it in conjunction with higher level spells to be a cheap bastard. For example, Gruz could sink beneath the earth and then use his tremor sense ability to determine the location of tanks or large bodies of troops and then have stones bombard them while remaining safe beneath the earth and not a valid target for attack. :)

Track (6) Basically a spell that replaces several secondary skills.

Most tracking skills are Related Skills and this gives you a pretty solid percentage. I know Gruz can't track for ****, so if I got this spell I'd be able to contribute a heck of a lot more to the party than I already can.

Throwing Stones (4) Cheaper and more effective than Hopping Stones.

But more limited in its application because you can't do the hopping stones trick listed above because you need to be able to "throw" the stone yourself.

Wall of Clay (8) A quick, cheap MDC wall between you and your enemies that gets stronger as you gain levels.

Or you can drop it on their head and disable a foe(s). Its another spell that has saved both myself and my companions on a few separate occasions. I've used it as a road, a bridge, to soak damage, and on several occasions to incapacitate foes without needing to kill them. Plus, if you actually do the math on just how big/thick these walls actually are its VERY impressive.

Wall of Clay as a 5th level Warlock Caster, Image 1
Wall of Clay as a 5th level Warlock Caster, Image 2

Wither Plants (10) Very very circumstantial.

Yeah, not that "amazing" unless youre fighting plant-beings like the Ganka or "blighting" the lands of those who have wronged you. I mean, it might not seem like that much but look at the area of effect. It was once worked out on the fourm sometime ago that in under 12 hours you could destroy the CS's entire food supply (well all their farm land) with a single Warlock. I think he needed to be 12-13th level though? It was a while ago. Regardless, I cannot really comment on this spell because my character doesn't have it and has never used it. Still, the applications shouldnt be ignored. The ability to do that kind of damage to a farm with but a gesture is pretty hardcore and can cause the ruin of entire regions of used correctly.

Level 3
Animal Plants (10) Are you in a grove full of MDC plants? OK then, if your opponent(s) have MDC weapons or augmented or better strength this spell is only a .minor distraction. If you are in a grove of steeltrees or otherwise MDC plants this spell can be really nasty

You're thinking like a "warrior" and not a wizard. You don't use the animated plants to fight, you use them to freak people out long before they even get to see you so they're on edge or scared away by the haunted forest. This spell has SO many applications, just not many that are combat orientated unless you've used Ironwood A LOT or you're in an M.D.C. forest. Even so, just stuff like being "picked up" by a tree and put out of the reach of a close-combat attacker is sometimes enough to end a fight right there. Then there are the fun applications, like having a tree shake a birds nest from its branches so you can catch the eggs and eat them for supper without needing to climb the damn thing, fall down, and look like an idiot. :lol:

Create Mound (8) OK, you made a Mound... Now what?

Terrain advantage. Its not "that impressive" but it can help you see further (big advantage at long distance), it can "raise" a large group of attackers out of close combat if used/timed correctly... but the best move is the dickiest move of all which is not listed (which is the theme of warlock magic). The wizard can end the spell at any time they choose just by willing it. So, large group of people go up.... mound vanishes... large group of people fall down. Ouch.

Crumble Stone (10) Very circumstantial.

Agreed, but another "handy" escape spell that could save the entire party while fleeing a powerful enemy.

Dig (8) The mobility granted by this spell is actually really really useful.

This spell makes me a God. It is by far my most powerful spell.

Earth Rumble (10) Area affect Horror Factor spell with a chance of fleeing.

Very useful spell.

Encase Object in Stone (10) Saving throw free Disarming spell that can turn a sophisticated laser rifle into a stone club.

Yup, this has saved my butt too. I once used it on the missile launchers on a Glitter Boy Killer, he failed his sensor systems roll miserably and didn't pick it up, then fired a volley of 10 or so missiles at one of my comrades and blew himself to kingdom come. Good times.

Locate Minerals (10) Very Circumstantial.

Two weeks ago while we were on an Alien Moon I found a vein of silver and spent a few hours excavating it using magic while my companions were sorting out our way back to Rifts Earth. The G.M. did some research on how much silver is in a vein "on average", made some rolls, and I walked away with 20,000,000 credits worth of silver. I cast the spell about fourteen times before I was lucky enough to be able to detect the silver but I had nothing else to do.

Ironically, I bought this spell so I could sense the steel in people's swords (or copper wiring in their vibro-weapons) or the coins in their pockets so I could track people through walls and avoid being sneaked up on, I never thought It'd prove to be such an impressive money maker.

Shrink Plant (10-200) For all those times you just need a banzai oak.

Earth Warlock Ganka. :lol:

Wall of Stone (15) A solid wall that can get pretty crazy strong.

Yup, cost is too high to "spam" like Wall of Clay but its saved me and my group from a couple of missile volleys and while its up other practitioners of magic cannot draw line of sight to us which is always handy.

Level 4
Animate Object (12) Creating a mindless sdc combatant is not that helpful in rifts earth.

Disagree, same deal as Animate Plant. Just because something cannot kick ass, does not mean its not useful. "Behold! My automated trap Seteroffera" He proclaims as the chair hobbles down the corridor and is pin-cushioned with poison darts and fireballs. ;) :) Plus, they can get you drinks and you can animate little statues you make to flip people the bird. Its great fun.

Cocoon of Stone (15) Great way to lie low for a while but not generally useful.

And until I went to Phaseworld, I agreed with you 100%. I often sat there with my book of magic open thinking "Man, who the heck would ever choose this spell?"

Then, during our phaseworld adventure the enemies were constantly blowing holes in our spaceship and several members were sucked out into space. Gruz (who was up until this point a rather solid combatant and resistant fellow) suddenly (for the first time in a long time) was terrified of death and dying. If he was sucked out into space there was practically NOTHING he could do. However, if I had cocoon of stone I could've survived pretty much indefinitely, by going into a coma-state inside the rock as I tumble through space and just recasting it again each time it runs out. After all, plenty enough time would have passed that I'd have gotten all my P.P.E. back. Sure, it might take him out of the game for a few million years while he waited to crash into a plantoid of sometype... but thats better than being dead!!

Mend Stone (15) Useful for Minecraft style warlocks, not so much for everyone else.

The ability to magically repair damage is incredibly useful. Especially when stuck out in the wilderness away from a repair bay. Sure you might be limited to basic armor and such, but its better than nothing and its "free" but for the P.P.E. expenditure.

Quicksand (15) Decent battlefield control, particularly for infantry.

Yup, solid spell. Perfect for dispatching annoying Glitter Boy Pilots who only exist to kill your character because their player has some sort of deep psychological issues.

Quicksand as a 5th level caster, image 1
Quicksand as a 5th level caster, image 2

Note: The image is raised to show the depth, I couldn't dig deeper so instead I was forced to raise it.

Repel Animals (10) The usefulness of this spell depends entirely on your GM's definition of animals.

Not really man, I've seen repel animals be surprisingly handy when used by the Temporal Wizard in our troop. Sure, we rarely "need" protection from hungry predators and spooked animals and such but it avoids the conflict and that gives us more time to do the encounters that really matter. Plus, its a good way of getting around without NEEDING to hurt or kill animals (plus it keeps rats and such out of our camp and away from our food).

Rust (15) There really is just not enough vulnerable to this spell for it to be worth your time.

Lots of things rust, as a "combat spell" its not really that handy, but as a utility spell its very handy. Again, like rot wood, it can make houses unfit to live in, cause leaks, upset the electrical wiring, you name it. Its all about what you want to use the spell for.

Sand Storm (15) Effectively a smoke+ something else spell, however full environmental armor pretty much blocks this spell's worst effects.

Read Vampire sourcebook. Your sandstorm can clog engines, screw up all kinds of **** for folks, and although the person inside the armor might be AOKAY they're still more than likely going to be Shooting Wild unless youre an idiot and standing in close combat with them.

Wall of Thorns (15) Wall of stone does it better.

Wall of Stone isn't a "plant" and cannot be "buffed" with your plant buffing magic.

Level 5
Chasm (25) Good for keeping melee masters out of your hair.

Yeah, this is how DEEP and how BIG the chasm is by the time you can cast it...
Chasm as a 5th level caster. Note: The raised pillar in the background is there to show depth. That is how much earth to can "sink" with a single casting. Its incredible.

Clay to Lead (20) Do you need lead that badly? OK, here you go.

Still trying to find a use for this, but apparently lead is valuable for many reasons. My first thought was increasing the weight of the clay you dropped on someone with your last spell to make sure they stay pinned.

Clay To Stone (20) Useful for a warlock who can sculpt and conjure clay.

Very handy indeed.

Close Fissures (30) As it does not work with the Chasm spell its a bit hard to make this spell work for you.

But if you can its practically an insta-win because you trap your opponent underground. All you need to do is be a little prepared and choose (or build using your magic earlier) the battlefield carefully.

Little Mud Mound (30) A strong cheap durable minion! Awesome.

Meh. Handy I suppose but not my cup of tea. They're too "stupid" because of their "elemental brain" to be exceptionally useful and their strength and power makes them a danger if not carefully managed.

Travel Through Walls (20) too limited in its scope be of much use.

HA!!!!!!!

Level 6
Clay or Stone to Iron (40/60) Iron can be pretty cool to have, especially if you could mold it properly same with stone.

Yup.

Create Steel (34) A resourceful player can do a lot with this spell, but as it is mostly about creating non precious materials.

Create steel has made me a lot of money. First, I find battlefields that are still covered in old husks and hulks of M.D.C. vehicles and robots that are still half buried in the earth or blown to pieces around the battlefield. Then I cast this spell, many many times. You can find the price you can sell "mega-damage alloy plates" in Merc Ops. Assuming you can move them you can turn a tidy profit. So far this spell has earned me over 30,000,000 credits and kept my armorers supplied with M.D. alloys for repairs on the groups vehicles and robots.

Mend Metal (30) With the right armor this spell is awesome but it has to be exactly right.

Covered this a bit earlier.

Stone to Flesh (30) Petrification is just not that common.

I was once turned to stone by a three-eyed monster demon accidentally summoned by our Shifter. Petrification is common enough that if one of my companions get turned to stone I want it so I can turn them back. Also, using it in conjunction with the petrification and cocoon in stone spells allows me to turn my allies into stone and then turn them back. This is great for long distance space travel because there is no chance of a computer shutting down or losing life support or anything like that. Heck, if I was getting really original I could dress up the party in disguises, turn them to stone, and then give them as a gift to an enemy only to turn them back in an epic Trojan horse stunt. Assuming of course they'd trust me to turn them back.

Travel Through Stone (35) great way to avoid flying enemies or conflicts.

Agreed.

Wood to Stone (30) OK, so your wood is now stone... Now what?

Stone trees are cool. Plus, after you turn them into stone you can turn them into metal.

Level 7
Earthquake (50) A devastating spell that can destroy non flyers and enemy buildings with terrifying ease.

And wreak havoc on the surrounding area. The AOE is so big on this I've NEVER been able to use to its maximum potential it in good conscious.

Metal to Clay (40) Most armor and weapons you run into are ceramic and not generally vulnerable to this spell.

But many walls and floors are. Metal to Clay, Clay/Dirt to sand (or a good solid kick!) and insta-door. Yay. :D

Petrification (40) A save or die spell that only affects one target at a time.

I once turned a biological alien spaceship to stone once, resulting in the death of the entire crew because it failed a saving throw. 'Nuff said.

River of Lava (50) So Earth Warlocks get Fire Warlock's most powerful damaging spell, and while it can be deadly it is pretty easy to avoid for most targets.

It also has a MASSIVE AOE like Earthquake. It has a number of huge advantages over Earthquake (like being able to have it running down of a roof or a cliff face onto victims below) but I think its pretty self-explanatory.

Sculpt & Animate Clay (40) The stats on a clay critter are just not that impressive.

They don't need to be, by the time you can cast the spell you can create about four a day and they last 48 hours each. You can calve stone doubles of yourself and paint them or just have them cheering you on or fetching you drinks. Maybe you're having a hard time finding some babes that will lower themselves to serving you drinks so you can just chisel some out of stone and bring 'em in the meantime. There are SO many cool uses for this BEYOND combat that I can't even list them all!

Wall of Iron (45) Wall of stone does basically the same thing for 1/3rd the P.P.E. and a single action, not good enough even with the option of dropping the wall on an enemy.

Even so, I will be taking it at the next level. The extra M.D.C. could come in handy when facing multiple robots or power armor and I'd rather have a wall that lasts two or three attacks than one that is gone in one and leaves me and my friends open.

Level 8
Cap Volcano (80) Very very Circumstantial.

Unless you build a volcano and make people offer you tributes and worships less you NOT cap it. Then again, you're obviously an evil ******* if that is the case. Otherwise, again... yes... it is a circumstantial power (probably the least useful of all of them) but I am willing to bet that the one time you HAVE to cast it, you're glad you can. Imagine how many lives you could save with this spell. Literally thousands, maybe even millions!

Create Golem (80) All the bonuses of the Invocation with a significantly reduced penalties! Supernaturally strong mooks for 7000 credits each! This is why you want the Create Clay spell and the Clay to Iron spell! So you can have an army of Iron soldiers to smash things for you.

The Hit Point cost deters me. I'd rather stone statues as I need them. Plus, Gruz is a gem-whore and "wasting them" in Golems means they can't sit in his treasure hoard to attract a pretty young Trollop.

Firequake (80) Wide area, damage over time and big penalties, good stuff!

Again, another massively effective spell but absolutely devastating if not properly restrained or utilized.

Ironwood (50+) The uses for this spell are without number, free M.D.C. material is always useful.

Plus, according to Vampire Kingdoms Revised (or is it just Vampires?), I can make about 40,000 credits per casting. Pretty hot ****. However, the obvious "real" application is in the ability to turn wood into M.D.C. so you can make M.D.C. structures out of pretty much nothing. Combined with create wood and a little carpentry/whittling sculpting you can literally make weapons that can parry Mega-Damage attacks (or armor) out of thin air.

Magnetism (40) Fantastic Battlefield control.

Shhh. This is one of my new tricks. I've not yet had a chance to use it. ;)

Suspended Animation (80) Honestly cooler if you have a TW buddy to make a TW cryo chamber, this spell has more story uses than practical uses.

Essentially a better version of Cocoon in Stone, plus you can set a condition which is absolutely fantastic. So you can do stuff like -- "I will sleep until the time comes when Eraga the Bold first steps foot into Testament" and then as soon as that guy walks into your home town, you wake up and know he is there. Of course, it can backfire hideously if not used carefully but that is true of all the best magic.

Transference of Essence (50) This spell has more story uses than practical uses.[/spoiler]

Depends on how you use it. For example...

Find someone with better attributes than you >> Turn them to Stone >> Transfer into their statue body = Win (Rinse and Repeat).

P.S.: There are some other Warlock Spells you missed from Mysteries of Magic and Library of B. just in case you didnt know. :)

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Last edited by Akashic Soldier on Tue Mar 18, 2014 1:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Unread postPosted: Tue Mar 18, 2014 1:13 pm
  

Palladin

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@akashic:

can't believe you love dig and haven't found a use for stone to mud.

dig can't dig stone. but it can dig mud. transform the stone, and blammo! dig away to your heart's content!

not just that, but either your GM considers metal to be stone, or they don't. if they do, well, this just became a devastating combat spell vs robots. if they don't, then you can take a chunk of ore, turn all the rock in it to mud, and sift out the metal, speeding up your mining and removing the need to transport useless (and heavy) rock. now, instead of "chunk of ore", try that with "vein of silver", for example...

(dirt to sand can perform many of the same uses, and arguably provides you with a resource that you likely aren't otherwise able to just conjure up at a whim should you ever need sand).


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Unread postPosted: Tue Mar 18, 2014 1:20 pm
  

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Knight

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Shark_Force wrote:
dig can't dig stone. but it can dig mud. transform the stone, and blammo! dig away to your heart's content!


*Facepalms*

Thank you Shark Force. That common sense logic is why I typically need a party. :lol:

I've just avoided using dig on stone where I could if there was stone but this is a fantastic alternative. I won't have to be so conservative with my magic anymore.

Shark_Force wrote:
(dirt to sand can perform many of the same uses, and arguably provides you with a resource that you likely aren't otherwise able to just conjure up at a whim should you ever need sand).


Indeed. I don't think I've ever had as much fun playing a mage as I have playing Gruz. I just wish that there were more Warlock Spells sometimes... although at the same time I know I'd be pissed if there were because I can't learn more. :lol:

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Unread postPosted: Tue Mar 18, 2014 1:59 pm
  

Palladin

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i find that is most true with earth warlocks. not just because there are a lot of good spells, but because to get the best out of your spells, you use combinations of spells.

that said, more spells just means you need to make friends with a techno-wizard and some other warlocks (so that you can persuade them to provide spells to power TW devices). and as i have mentioned elsewhere, with their ability to generate or locate exactly the kinds of resources that techno-wizards need, earth warlocks are very capable of making techno-wizard friends? :P


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Unread postPosted: Tue Mar 18, 2014 2:09 pm
  

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Knight

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Comment: Theres space for a paper airplane race in the eye of a hurricane.
Shark_Force wrote:
i find that is most true with earth warlocks. not just because there are a lot of good spells, but because to get the best out of your spells, you use combinations of spells.

that said, more spells just means you need to make friends with a techno-wizard and some other warlocks (so that you can persuade them to provide spells to power TW devices). and as i have mentioned elsewhere, with their ability to generate or locate exactly the kinds of resources that techno-wizards need, earth warlocks are very capable of making techno-wizard friends? :P


Its unlikely for Gruz, as he "collects gems" and wouldn't want to put them into devices (they're more valuable in his eyes just sitting in his hoard). Plus, as a "traditional" practitioner of magic, he sees Techno-Wizardry as something of a "tacky gimmick" and won't rely on it if he can help it.

Thanks for the suggestions though! :)

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Unread postPosted: Tue Mar 18, 2014 3:59 pm
  

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Knight

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One thing to note about the little mud mound is the lil guy is pretty much a free PPE battery and for that reason alone worth summoning if only to pillage for his PPE and then dismiss him. Basically just treat these guys as super literal robots give them good instructions and you get good results. Be vague and they cause mayhem.

Also given they know low level spells if you want to dig to bypass something let these lil guys go nuts and dig for you to save your own PPE for more useful activities.


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Unread postPosted: Tue Mar 18, 2014 9:10 pm
  

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Palladin

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Comment: If you have something to say, back it up with thoughts and reasons. Simply posting to agree or disagree tends to be a waste.
rat_bastard wrote:
You get more Hit points every level, SDC is much more static.
Doesn't negate that HP is more important to health than SDC is. You can bypass SDC to coma/kill someone, can't bypass HP. The only place I can see losing permanent SDC as worse than HP is TMNT/N&SS where it heals so much faster.

rat_bastard wrote:
Quote:
Touch of Life (60) Amazingly expensive resurrect spell.
Why did you make this red? It should be blue. This is one of the most effective means of resurrection in the game. Doesn't require contact like the Air Warlock spell, equal cost and chance of success. No permanent cost to victim or user. Only downside is the time limit.
No Permanent cost except the massive Permanent PPE loss.[/quote]I have no... AH okay I figured out the problem. You see, I was reading South America 1 page 68, which has no permanent cost. Neither does Book of Magic page 39. You must've been reading Lemuria page 103.

I guess Lemurian Biomancy is inferior to Elven Biomancy in that regard :)

kaid wrote:
If that is assumed to not be the case there are a whole lot of cases of things that break. Any spell that says does 1d6 damage per level of experience would now do 0d6 damage at level 1 which makes no sense at all. There are also some spells that say things like 100 feet per level with no base range listed so if you don't assume it includes level one then at level one the spell simply cannot work.
It could just mean you can't cast the spell to any effect at level 1. Familiar Link and that Unholy/Host power both have minimum level limits for casting, so it wouldn't be totally absurd.

kaid wrote:
Given they have specific syntax they use when that is not the case would indicate makes it pretty clear when they say per level they mean per level including your first level.
I'm in agreement with you, mostly poking fun at how skills can't consistently be interpreted that way as explanations still often ignore the 'per level' bonus until 2.

In the case of spells, 'level' appears to be noun, whereas in skills, it seems to be used as a verb. "experience level" vs "level up" basically.

Mack wrote:
drewkitty ~..~ wrote:
warlocks will hunt a mage with converted elements spells down.
Can you give me a reference for the underlined part?
You'd think if this were the case in classic PRPG it'd be notable enough to cause a mention and a stir. Especially since golems all include earth elemental intelligence life essence fragments in them and wizards are fond of golems.

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Unread postPosted: Tue Mar 18, 2014 9:38 pm
  

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Palladin

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Comment: Palladium Books Canon is set solely by Kevin Siembieda, either in person, or by his approval of published material.
Mack wrote:
drewkitty ~..~ wrote:
Elemental Spells (warlock magic): These are spells that are granted to a Warlock by their elemental powers. These are not common magic invocations. While conversions can be made of them, but warlocks will hunt a mage with converted elements spells down.

Can you give me a reference for the underlined part?

I think its a reference to the section in PF World Book 12 -Library of Bletherad.
On page 82 under Fulminations it talks about Warlocks reactions to seeing Wizards casting 'their' spells.

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Unread postPosted: Tue Mar 18, 2014 11:07 pm
  

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Palladin

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'Hunt' sounds a bit extreme. They probably just want to 'pay him a visit' to make sure he hasn't summoned and enslaved an elemental to force to cast those spells, since the idea of a wizard mastering them wouldn't be the first thing that came to mind.

That bit is confusing. It mentions that they may try to kill you, but that demanding a mind wipe of the spell is the 'worst case' scenario.

I suppose I could see how dying could be better, since you could get resurrected and still know the spell, whereas you can't unwipe a spell memory.

Presumably the ones who try to kill you are the ones who assume you're enslaving an elemental... although they can sense elementals so I'm not sure how such a delusion could persist. Perhaps they think a cloaking spell is being used to hide their brethren from them.

Good find. More evidence that the PRPG world "Palladium" is not the same "Palladium World" that PF2nd takes place in, in my eyes, since in PRPG wizards were copying warlock spells all over the place.

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Unread postPosted: Wed Mar 19, 2014 2:52 am
  

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Monk

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Mack wrote:
drewkitty ~..~ wrote:
Elemental Spells (warlock magic): These are spells that are granted to a Warlock by their elemental powers. These are not common magic invocations. While conversions can be made of them, but warlocks will hunt a mage with converted elements spells down.

Can you give me a reference for the underlined part?

The referential text is in the Library of Belthatia (spelling?) book, grimuar (spelling?) section the text that talks about the converted air elemental spells.
---------------------
eco wizard (Rifts Dino Swamp)
blood mage (3G minion wars book: D-outbreak)
zodiac wizard (official PF2 article rifter 50)
Note: I did not include any other Rifter Magic types because none but the Zodiac Magic are official.
--------------------
Temp. Magic...D-pocket is a common magic spell. (reff. HU2 & PF2 spell lists) Thus the rest of the Temp magic spells are also common magic 'formatted' spells but are not shared throughout the magic community.

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Unread postPosted: Wed Mar 19, 2014 6:42 am
  

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Kreelockian

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Rating Palladium Fantasy, Heroes Unlimited or Nightbane spells is last priority. This is primarily a listing of Rifts Magic spells and you do not need me to tell you that Fleet Feet is an awesome buff.

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Unread postPosted: Fri May 16, 2014 2:28 pm
  

D-Bee

Joined: Thu May 15, 2014 6:15 pm
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drewkitty ~..~ wrote:
----------
Space Magic (3G & HU:AU, AU:GG): rare magic, common magic mages can learn these spells, but there needs to be a charter background to explain how they com to know them because they are very rare.


There is also Demon Magic in the same place. That's open to any mages but requires an Evil alignment, and many of the spells require/encourage sacrifices.

Ice Wraiths out of Dyval - Hell Unleashed have some unique Ice Magic. It's not clear who can learn them beyond Ice Wraiths but they seem reasonably useful for Water Warlocks, Ocean Mages, and all general mages.


Last edited by Janos on Sat May 17, 2014 11:17 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Unread postPosted: Tue May 20, 2014 8:26 pm
  

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Palladin

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Makes me wonder if Fleet Feet doubles Rate of Fire from archery. If guns used a similar RoF that different from HtH attacks then it not doubling akin to archery might not would be good.

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Unread postPosted: Tue May 20, 2014 10:06 pm
  

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Kreelockian

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Sorry guys, a recent bout of gainful employment has delayed my updating this page. Soon though.

Also I recommend people ignore the existence of the fleet feet spell.

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Unread postPosted: Mon Aug 25, 2014 2:44 am
  

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rat_bastard wrote:
Sorry guys, a recent bout of gainful employment has delayed my updating this page. Soon though.

Also I recommend people ignore the existence of the fleet feet spell.


Any updates coming soon?

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