R:CE Martial Arts?

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Re: R:CE Martial Arts?

Unread post by dark brandon »

RoadWarriorFWaNK wrote:
dark brandon wrote:
RoadWarriorFWaNK wrote:i just think its funny that in chaos earth you can learn to kill people as a hobby.


Guns?



learning to shoot guns =/= learning to kill people


I use my guns to tickle babies.
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Re: R:CE Martial Arts?

Unread post by RoadWarriorFWaNK »

dark brandon wrote:
RoadWarriorFWaNK wrote:
dark brandon wrote:
RoadWarriorFWaNK wrote:i just think its funny that in chaos earth you can learn to kill people as a hobby.


Guns?



learning to shoot guns =/= learning to kill people


I use my guns to tickle babies.

dude that's a W.P. sharpshooting trick. you don't have that WP. stop cheating
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Re: R:CE Martial Arts?

Unread post by dark brandon »

RoadWarriorFWaNK wrote:
dark brandon wrote:
RoadWarriorFWaNK wrote:
dark brandon wrote:
RoadWarriorFWaNK wrote:i just think its funny that in chaos earth you can learn to kill people as a hobby.


Guns?



learning to shoot guns =/= learning to kill people


I use my guns to tickle babies.

dude that's a W.P. sharpshooting trick. you don't have that WP. stop cheating


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Re: R:CE Martial Arts?

Unread post by tmikesecrist3 »

I have to say some things have made since I might have said that a high ranking Martel artist would have the Equivalent to h2h Martel arts... but then that might be splitting hairs are getting more into meninta then I should.. but any way the real reason I was righting this... Is how to handle some one like an SCAer? the other though is what about some kind of mage smith... would I use the Scathach Druid in Rifts England, as a base if so what changes should I make.....

before I get blasted on this.... No I don't think you will find on on every street corner.... But just like to day Hand forged swords would find a netch market among the SCA and other Reinacters

One other point what about the person whom stops practicing hand to hand skills... Like the ex solder whom is now working as a banker
"Cannon to right of them,
Cannon to left of them,
Cannon in front of them
Volleyed and thundered;
Stormed at with shot and shell,
Boldly they rode and well,
Into the jaws of Death,
Into the mouth of hell
Rode the six hundred."
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Re: R:CE Martial Arts?

Unread post by Lt Gargoyle »

tmikesecrist3 wrote:I have to say some things have made since I might have said that a high ranking Martel artist would have the Equivalent to h2h Martel arts... but then that might be splitting hairs are getting more into meninta then I should.. but any way the real reason I was righting this... Is how to handle some one like an SCAer? the other though is what about some kind of mage smith... would I use the Scathach Druid in Rifts England, as a base if so what changes should I make.....

before I get blasted on this.... No I don't think you will find on on every street corner.... But just like to day Hand forged swords would find a netch market among the SCA and other Reinacters


there is a netch market for custom swords hand forged/made, i have dabbled in this as a hobby and if you go to some of the larger events you can watch a black smith work on a piece. its very entertaining. but the cost is higher and most do not wish to pay for the quality or craftmanship. And i would not be surprised in the future where magic can enchant them to be MD weapon, that there would still be a place for them.

tmikesecrist3 wrote:One other point what about the person whom stops practicing hand to hand skills... Like the ex solder whom is now working as a banker

muscle memory will stay with them for awhile. however i feel that they would slow down. to an untrained person they would still be great because they would still know what to do. but against someone who trains they would be in trouble.


As for the hand to hand stuff. I will simply agree to disagree with how it is written in the palladium books. I like the skills. I just think of it differently then the game creators. and i am ok with that.
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Re: R:CE Martial Arts?

Unread post by TechnoGothic »

Well I prefer how N&SS handles the GENERIC HtH vs Dedicated Martial Arts approach.

GENERIC HtH is just that, not a specific style. It uses alittle of everything to get the job done.
There should not be a "Tier System", not really. Just what manuevers you have learned and mastered and the basic style your learning.

GENERIC BASIC = is simple, Punch, Kick, Block type of stuff. Super simple to learn.
GENERIC EXPERT = More Advanced techniques. Throws, Trips, chokes. Should take a few weeks to Learn.
GENERIC MARTIAL ARTS = Even more Advanced. Teaching Jump Kicks, Back Flips, etc... Art of Distraction and Deception while fighting.
GENERIC ASSASSIN = Your taught not to hold back. Dont knock out an opponnet when you can KILL them instead. Quickly and Siliently as possible to.

However, You have Dedicated Martial Arts that are a Specific Style also.
Martial Arts (basic) These are you easy to learn styles. Tai Chi, etc...
Martial Arts (Advanced) These are the true Specific Martial Styles. They vary in their range and usefullness as to what manuevers and purpose they are designed for. These takes years to reach what most people think of as "Master" or like a "Black Belt" stage of level.

Really I would prefer N&SS be used for all the games.
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Re: R:CE Martial Arts?

Unread post by Lt Gargoyle »

Jason Richards wrote:I see that this topic has cropped up again, so allow me to reiterate my point (though you should certainly read the entirety of the thread and my responses). Let me just quote some passages from the text. Before I do, however, let me remind everyone that my position here is not based on what YOU feel is right, or how YOU should play your game, or even what I feel is right or how I run my game, but only what is CANON in Chaos Earth as it stands right now.

First, the idea that the average citizen in Chaos Earth is relatively unskilled when it comes to "every day" sorts of skills, which have been replaced by technology and the service industry. This is very important to understanding CE as it is written.

p. 50
Social-Economic Note: One of modern society's weaknesses, especially nearly 100 years in the future, it that the average person has limited knowledge and skill in what was once considered common skills or even "arts and crafts." Consequently, a tiny percentage of people possess basic carpentry, building or survival skills, or know how to farm, hunt, sew, knit, weave, preserve food or even cook. Thus, even the most basic skills necessary in a wilderness or apocalyptic situation must be rediscovered and taught. This is a contributing reason why many cities experience immediate panic as people used to restaurants and skilled professionals to provide their basic, day to day needs, are suddenly on their own. Without they they are lost and panic stricken.


This is highly important to understanding the setting. Whether you agree or not, the canon is that people of the Golden Age become fairly helpless without their modern conveniences. This isn't really that much of a stretch, if you think about it. We all like to consider ourselves equipped for a world without these things, but really think about it. Think about people you work with, or go to school with, or are in your family, or even game with. Don't you know a lot of people that, if only the power and water were to be shut down, wouldn't really know what to do? If you dropped them in the middle of Yellowstone with only the clothes on their back, how would they fare? Sure in Chaos Earth there is scavenging to be had, but that dries up pretty quickly once the race is on for everyone to grab what they can. Just something to think about while we consider what the canon tells us that Golden Agers do with their time and energy.

On to hand to hand skills, in particular, the following illustrates that we must make a distinction between what is generally "a martial art" and what is defined as "Hand to Hand: Martial Arts" (or Expert or Assassin or whatever).

First, it has been suggested that one can learn Hand to Hand: Martial Arts by attending classes in a gym, dojo, and by being practiced for sport/fitness/personal interest/self defense. According to the canon, those practices do not constitute HtH:MA, but Hand to Hand: Basic.

p. 125
Hand to Hand: Basic: Provides elementary fighting techniques and methods of attack and self-defense as taught in military basic training or in self defense classes.

p. 141
Hand to Hand: Basic
This is an elementary form of hand to hand combat training. Though it hardly stacks up against some of the more advanced forms of fighting, one who has trained in Hand to Hand: Basic still fights with combat skill compared to the simple, everyday folk who populate Chaos Earth.


The descriptions seem a little all over the place here, but one thing is clear: Hand to Hand: Basic is a very basic self defense, and that the average person in Chaos Earth doesn't even possess this level of combat ability.

Now, what does the text say about Hand to Hand: Expert?

p. 125
Hand to Hand: Expert: An advanced form of self-defense and unarmed combat taught to professionals and the military elite.

p. 142
Hand to Hand: Expert
This fighting style is often taught to soldiers, bodyguards, thieves, and anybody else who will be expected to live by violence. While it lacks the mastery of the Martial Arts, an Expert fighter knows how to scrap quickly and efficiently. At high levels, especially, those with this skill can often hold their own against dedicated masters of the martial artists.


So, HtH:E, which is one level "above" Basic and "below" Martial Arts, is for professionals and the military elite, and people who live by violence. This is not simply something learned in the corner gym, but for people who fight for a living (soldiers, military elite, bodyguards, thieves, etc.).

Now we're up to Hand to Hand: Martial Arts

p. 126
Hand to Hand: Martial Arts: This is some form of general oriental fighting skill (karate, kung-fu, etc.) that teaches advanced hand to hand combat.

p. 142
Hand to Hand: Martial Arts
Considered to be a generic form of martial arts, taking techniques from many sources.


HtH:MA is an advanced hand to hand skill, in excess of that shown by Expert (though the description does little to talk it up). It takes more time and effort to learn than does Expert (because it counts as more skill selections), which is a professional level of training. Those possessing this skill are trained in combat at the very highest levels, short of the incredibly rare and specialized skills such as Assassin and Commando.

So, in summary, when you take the text and really look at it, what you have is that while a large number of people practice some sort of self defense, or a "martial art" as a sport or hobby, that would be classified as Hand to Hand: Basic. We also know that HtH: Basic is a level of training that is beyond everyday people. Finally, we know that very few people on Chaos Earth (or our Earth, by the books) know Hand to Hand: Martial Arts, which is combat skill at or beyond a professional level.


I think the way the that it was explained should have the hand to hand martial arts simply reclassified as master. As the hand to hand is all basically martial arts here anyways. so if we just simply say the guy with hand to hand basic just goes to the gym/dojo a couple times a week, he is better then the guy who doesn't. but the guy who trains a couple times aweek and goes out like the cops or basic soldier and sometimes has to use it then he is the expert. but the guy who gets up and practices everyday religiously and goes out into harms way is a master martial artist. A professional killer. heck we do not even need assassin anymore. or commando. since they could easily be put back into the master classification.

My groups never really got into the N&SS so i cannot say it is better or not. but i will pull my copy out and read through it again.
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Re: R:CE Martial Arts?

Unread post by tmikesecrist3 »

Also of note how many people really know how to cook now? we open a can or a box add water heat for many things. and yes cooking is not hard. but of those of use that do now how to actually cook and I am one of them. I make really good marinara sauce but I have no idea how to make noodles or how to start with tomatoes to make the souse. of those that know how to cook how many can do it on a fire or wood stove? and how many of those of us that can cook on a fire or wood stove have a fire place or a wood stove that you can cook on in our homes? if you now how to cook and bake you would quickly learn to do it on wood or if your lucky gas. pervided you have a place to do so. and those of use that "cook" or own meals how many of those meals come out of boxes or cans? And then there s that fact that most of us do not have much more then 3 days worth of food in the house
"Cannon to right of them,
Cannon to left of them,
Cannon in front of them
Volleyed and thundered;
Stormed at with shot and shell,
Boldly they rode and well,
Into the jaws of Death,
Into the mouth of hell
Rode the six hundred."
The charge of the light Brigade, By Alfred, Lord Tennyson
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Re: R:CE Martial Arts?

Unread post by RoadWarriorFWaNK »

me and darkbrandon make our own meals all the time. He's better than me though. But i make some crazy mashed potatoes and fish.

neither one of us can fight
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Re: R:CE Martial Arts?

Unread post by Lt Gargoyle »

lose the tv and you have more time in the day to learn other things. Sadly though I am one who mostly depends on the boxes or cans to cook. But I am learning to garden.

But the point here is martial arts should be different from the other hth skills or reclassified altogeather.
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Re: R:CE Martial Arts?

Unread post by TechnoGothic »

Lt Gargoyle wrote:
I think the way the that it was explained should have the hand to hand martial arts simply reclassified as master. As the hand to hand is all basically martial arts here anyways. so if we just simply say the guy with hand to hand basic just goes to the gym/dojo a couple times a week, he is better then the guy who doesn't. but the guy who trains a couple times aweek and goes out like the cops or basic soldier and sometimes has to use it then he is the expert. but the guy who gets up and practices everyday religiously and goes out into harms way is a master martial artist. A professional killer. heck we do not even need assassin anymore. or commando. since they could easily be put back into the master classification.

My groups never really got into the N&SS so i cannot say it is better or not. but i will pull my copy out and read through it again.


HtH None (Free)
HtH Basic (One Skill)
HtH Expert (Two Skills)
HtH Master (Three Skills)

Yes this simple change would work best for all the game lines. It would help keep them in a tier system to build up. Players could even in game for from None to Basic to Expert to Master over the course of the game if they wished to as they level up and gain new skills.

We honestly could lose Assassin altogther as it is not needed just for a evil only HtH style, when any of the ones above can work for killing people in HtH combat. Just stress Killing Manuevers are only for evil characters. But even then, I dont see why Kill manuevers should be evil only either.
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Re: R:CE Martial Arts?

Unread post by barna10 »

Jason Richards wrote:
p. 50
Social-Economic Note: One of modern society's weaknesses, especially nearly 100 years in the future, it that the average person has limited knowledge and skill in what was once considered common skills or even "arts and crafts." Consequently, a tiny percentage of people possess basic carpentry, building or survival skills, or know how to farm, hunt, sew, knit, weave, preserve food or even cook. Thus, even the most basic skills necessary in a wilderness or apocalyptic situation must be rediscovered and taught. This is a contributing reason why many cities experience immediate panic as people used to restaurants and skilled professionals to provide their basic, day to day needs, are suddenly on their own. Without they they are lost and panic stricken.


This is highly important to understanding the setting. Whether you agree or not, the canon is that people of the Golden Age become fairly helpless without their modern conveniences. This isn't really that much of a stretch, if you think about it. We all like to consider ourselves equipped for a world without these things, but really think about it. Think about people you work with, or go to school with, or are in your family, or even game with. Don't you know a lot of people that, if only the power and water were to be shut down, wouldn't really know what to do? If you dropped them in the middle of Yellowstone with only the clothes on their back, how would they fare? Sure in Chaos Earth there is scavenging to be had, but that dries up pretty quickly once the race is on for everyone to grab what they can. Just something to think about while we consider what the canon tells us that Golden Agers do with their time and energy.


I know this may be seen as beating a dead horse, but...

How is the golden Age any different than today. I'd argue that most people in the USA couldn't survive a week without electricity, grocery stores, T.V., internet, etc., and yet there are still those that would be able to. Just because a majority of a population have forgotten skills does not mean everyone has forgotten those skills. The section you quoted even stated that the "average" person has forgotten these skills, not that everyone has forgotten them. It goes on to state that a "tiny percentage" possess these skills, but that's still millions of people. If we assume normal growth rates, the population of the Earth is probably around 9 billion. Even 1% of that would be 90 million people. I think within 90 million people there is plenty of room for a PC that wants to possess an uncommon, or even rare, skill.
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Re: R:CE Martial Arts?

Unread post by Lt Gargoyle »

barna10 wrote:
Jason Richards wrote:
p. 50
Social-Economic Note: One of modern society's weaknesses, especially nearly 100 years in the future, it that the average person has limited knowledge and skill in what was once considered common skills or even "arts and crafts." Consequently, a tiny percentage of people possess basic carpentry, building or survival skills, or know how to farm, hunt, sew, knit, weave, preserve food or even cook. Thus, even the most basic skills necessary in a wilderness or apocalyptic situation must be rediscovered and taught. This is a contributing reason why many cities experience immediate panic as people used to restaurants and skilled professionals to provide their basic, day to day needs, are suddenly on their own. Without they they are lost and panic stricken.


This is highly important to understanding the setting. Whether you agree or not, the canon is that people of the Golden Age become fairly helpless without their modern conveniences. This isn't really that much of a stretch, if you think about it. We all like to consider ourselves equipped for a world without these things, but really think about it. Think about people you work with, or go to school with, or are in your family, or even game with. Don't you know a lot of people that, if only the power and water were to be shut down, wouldn't really know what to do? If you dropped them in the middle of Yellowstone with only the clothes on their back, how would they fare? Sure in Chaos Earth there is scavenging to be had, but that dries up pretty quickly once the race is on for everyone to grab what they can. Just something to think about while we consider what the canon tells us that Golden Agers do with their time and energy.


I know this may be seen as beating a dead horse, but...

How is the golden Age any different than today. I'd argue that most people in the USA couldn't survive a week without electricity, grocery stores, T.V., internet, etc., and yet there are still those that would be able to. Just because a majority of a population have forgotten skills does not mean everyone has forgotten those skills. The section you quoted even stated that the "average" person has forgotten these skills, not that everyone has forgotten them. It goes on to state that a "tiny percentage" possess these skills, but that's still millions of people. If we assume normal growth rates, the population of the Earth is probably around 9 billion. Even 1% of that would be 90 million people. I think within 90 million people there is plenty of room for a PC that wants to possess an uncommon, or even rare, skill.


This is true. Infact as i have gotten more involved in the SCA, and I have found more of those people building things on a very basic level. I even watched a couple teaching how to weave cloth from threads. It was interesting. My favorites were the guys who create the siege weapons such as catapults and ballista’s. And if they had more free time to do so, i think they could have it down to an art.

But I think the PC's would be those who chose these rare skills. This would explain why they are still alive. They know how to do those things so many others did not want to learn. I also think they would begin to teach others as time passed, so that their groups have a better chance to survive.
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Re: R:CE Martial Arts?

Unread post by barna10 »

Lt Gargoyle wrote: This is true. Infact as i have gotten more involved in the SCA, and I have found more of those people building things on a very basic level. I even watched a couple teaching how to weave cloth from threads. It was interesting. My favorites were the guys who create the siege weapons such as catapults and ballista’s. And if they had more free time to do so, i think they could have it down to an art.

But I think the PC's would be those who chose these rare skills. This would explain why they are still alive. They know how to do those things so many others did not want to learn. I also think they would begin to teach others as time passed, so that their groups have a better chance to survive.


While I agree with you, I'm afraid most of our fellow gamers, especially Palladium ones, would not agree with us. To them, PCs are average Joe's that must follow canon, while NPCs are the exceptions to the rules. For instance, there are TONS of Rifts NPCs that break the rules: characters with multiple classes, stats too high for their race, master psionics and spells, rare magics that no one should possess, etc. If you even mention creating such a character as a PC you are labeled a power-gamer, munchkin, or worse! So, you want to create a Chaos Earth character that is a SCA enthusiast and therefore more capable of surviving the new dark ages hell hole he finds himself in? Poo poo on you you munchkin!

Even the average gamer, if translated into game stats, would probably be considered a munchkin character for most games. I was in the military and gamed with many guys that couldn't recreate themselves by the rules. Officers that had been through Ranger school, Special Forces school, Air Assault, Air Borne, Sniper Qualified, and had Bachelor's, Master's, or even Ph. D.'s, they couldn't even get close to representing themselves in game stats. Don't even get me started on the one guy that had been a champion kick boxer before joining the Army, had a Bachelor's, had been a Ranger, did 2 tours with Special Forces, was now a Captain, and was a certified EMT. MUNCHKIN! REAL LIFE IS TOO MUNCHKIN FOR GAMING!

Let's see, there's also the Olympic Gymnast that was a second degree black belt and held a Master's degree. Another munchkin character, er, I mean person!

Hell, I have trouble putting myself in game stats and I'm nowhere near as skilled or experienced as these other guys I've gamed with!

In short, you'll never get through the stubborn, thick-skulled gamers who think your PC should be an average Joe. IMO opinion it's because they have never done anything in their own life and have trouble believing that others have done anything interesting besides go to High School, or maybe college. Real life is pretty interesting fellas! Get out of your mom's basement and live it!
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Re: R:CE Martial Arts?

Unread post by Nightmask »

barna10 wrote:
Lt Gargoyle wrote: This is true. Infact as i have gotten more involved in the SCA, and I have found more of those people building things on a very basic level. I even watched a couple teaching how to weave cloth from threads. It was interesting. My favorites were the guys who create the siege weapons such as catapults and ballista’s. And if they had more free time to do so, i think they could have it down to an art.

But I think the PC's would be those who chose these rare skills. This would explain why they are still alive. They know how to do those things so many others did not want to learn. I also think they would begin to teach others as time passed, so that their groups have a better chance to survive.


While I agree with you, I'm afraid most of our fellow gamers, especially Palladium ones, would not agree with us. To them, PCs are average Joe's that must follow canon, while NPCs are the exceptions to the rules. For instance, there are TONS of Rifts NPCs that break the rules: characters with multiple classes, stats too high for their race, master psionics and spells, rare magics that no one should possess, etc. If you even mention creating such a character as a PC you are labeled a power-gamer, munchkin, or worse! So, you want to create a Chaos Earth character that is a SCA enthusiast and therefore more capable of surviving the new dark ages hell hole he finds himself in? Poo poo on you you munchkin!

Even the average gamer, if translated into game stats, would probably be considered a munchkin character for most games. I was in the military and gamed with many guys that couldn't recreate themselves by the rules. Officers that had been through Ranger school, Special Forces school, Air Assault, Air Borne, Sniper Qualified, and had Bachelor's, Master's, or even Ph. D.'s, they couldn't even get close to representing themselves in game stats. Don't even get me started on the one guy that had been a champion kick boxer before joining the Army, had a Bachelor's, had been a Ranger, did 2 tours with Special Forces, was now a Captain, and was a certified EMT. MUNCHKIN! REAL LIFE IS TOO MUNCHKIN FOR GAMING!

Let's see, there's also the Olympic Gymnast that was a second degree black belt and held a Master's degree. Another munchkin character, er, I mean person!

Hell, I have trouble putting myself in game stats and I'm nowhere near as skilled or experienced as these other guys I've gamed with!

In short, you'll never get through the stubborn, thick-skulled gamers who think your PC should be an average Joe. IMO opinion it's because they have never done anything in their own life and have trouble believing that others have done anything interesting besides go to High School, or maybe college. Real life is pretty interesting fellas! Get out of your mom's basement and live it!


That's depressing how true that is, both for how the idea is that they've got it backwards that the PC are shackled to mediocrity rather than being the exceptional and that even what's possible in real life for exceptional people is treated as impossible for a PC in a world where things are even more fantastic than real life. You have to look to Ninjas and Superspies for the one Palladium RPG that allows for those kinds of exceptional humans like the real life ones you mention to exist in.
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It's 'canon', not 'cannon'. A cannon is a big gun like on pirate ships, canon is what you mean when referring to something as being contained within one of the books such as how many dice to roll for a stat.
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Re: R:CE Martial Arts?

Unread post by Lt Gargoyle »

Yea it sucks, but it is the way it is. the only reason I made the character attributes max out at 24 was to make sure my players rounded their skill selection fully out. I think for a character to be rounded out they need more then just physical skills. those character seem to die in my games quickly. But that does not mean you cannot take Martial arts, boxing and kick boxing. In fact I have been doing martial arts since i was a kid and just started learning boxing and mixed it up because some of the guys in my dojo were MMA fighters.

So yes they have not got it right. Some NPC should be total bad asses. but the players should be able to get there too. Not at first level grant you, but as they work thier way up there. And yea those who have any chance to survive the Comming of the Rifts is gonna be that odd ball person who's friends laughed at for being wierd and studying martial arts, shooting, survival and Midieavl stuff. These are the guys and gals who will have the know how. the other sheep will fall to the wolves if they cannot find them.
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Re: R:CE Martial Arts?

Unread post by barna10 »

Lt Gargoyle wrote:Yea it sucks, but it is the way it is. the only reason I made the character attributes max out at 24 was to make sure my players rounded their skill selection fully out. I think for a character to be rounded out they need more then just physical skills. those character seem to die in my games quickly. But that does not mean you cannot take Martial arts, boxing and kick boxing. In fact I have been doing martial arts since i was a kid and just started learning boxing and mixed it up because some of the guys in my dojo were MMA fighters.

So yes they have not got it right. Some NPC should be total bad asses. but the players should be able to get there too. Not at first level grant you, but as they work thier way up there. And yea those who have any chance to survive the Comming of the Rifts is gonna be that odd ball person who's friends laughed at for being wierd and studying martial arts, shooting, survival and Midieavl stuff. These are the guys and gals who will have the know how. the other sheep will fall to the wolves if they cannot find them.


You are such a munchkin. You can't take boxing! Lol
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Re: R:CE Martial Arts?

Unread post by Lt Gargoyle »

barna10 wrote:
Lt Gargoyle wrote:Yea it sucks, but it is the way it is. the only reason I made the character attributes max out at 24 was to make sure my players rounded their skill selection fully out. I think for a character to be rounded out they need more then just physical skills. those character seem to die in my games quickly. But that does not mean you cannot take Martial arts, boxing and kick boxing. In fact I have been doing martial arts since i was a kid and just started learning boxing and mixed it up because some of the guys in my dojo were MMA fighters.

So yes they have not got it right. Some NPC should be total bad asses. but the players should be able to get there too. Not at first level grant you, but as they work thier way up there. And yea those who have any chance to survive the Comming of the Rifts is gonna be that odd ball person who's friends laughed at for being wierd and studying martial arts, shooting, survival and Midieavl stuff. These are the guys and gals who will have the know how. the other sheep will fall to the wolves if they cannot find them.


You are such a munchkin. You can't take boxing! Lol


Yes i know especailly sence i started doing body sculpting/building to get rid of the extra pounds being a hair dresser has added. :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: R:CE Martial Arts?

Unread post by Tor »

Young Freud wrote:I guess what I'm saying is that I would like to see a list of available martial arts in the Golden Age, which may be asking a lot.
I don't really know which would remain around and which would have faded away by that point.

N&SS does list which arts are allowable in Rifts because they were popular enough to have survived the Cataclysm, so at minimum you could use the 4 agent skills, Aikido, Jujutsu, Tai Chi Chuan and Tae Kwon Do.

With just Aikido and Tai Chi you can pretty much break the world with your chi, so...

As for villainous Snake Style or Tien Hsueh, they're probably the cabal who planned the Cataclysm, the Rifts equivalent of Night Priests.
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Re: R:CE Martial Arts?

Unread post by Lt Gargoyle »

Tor wrote:
Young Freud wrote:I guess what I'm saying is that I would like to see a list of available martial arts in the Golden Age, which may be asking a lot.
I don't really know which would remain around and which would have faded away by that point.

N&SS does list which arts are allowable in Rifts because they were popular enough to have survived the Cataclysm, so at minimum you could use the 4 agent skills, Aikido, Jujutsu, Tai Chi Chuan and Tae Kwon Do.

With just Aikido and Tai Chi you can pretty much break the world with your chi, so...

As for villainous Snake Style or Tien Hsueh, they're probably the cabal who planned the Cataclysm, the Rifts equivalent of Night Priests.



Well I would say a kick boxing style would survive along with MMA stuff. Kempo Karate is pretty popular as well as many different kung fu styles. and there is always a remote chance a school survived the cataclysm if the GM allows for it. Hell if my player could give me a great history back ground to explain it, I would more then likely allow it. Since most of them are not over powering in Rifts anyways.
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Re: R:CE Martial Arts?

Unread post by barna10 »

Also, there's no reason a NEW school can't find it's birth AFTER the coming of the Rifts.
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Re: R:CE Martial Arts?

Unread post by Lt Gargoyle »

barna10 wrote:Also, there's no reason a NEW school can't find it's birth AFTER the coming of the Rifts.


this is a good point as well. if you had some skills to teach, it would make your chances for survival better by teaching it.
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Re: R:CE Martial Arts?

Unread post by Rimmerdal »

Anyone consider a N&SS CE earth setting as a game?
taalismn wrote:
Rimmerdal wrote:mmm Rifts street meat..


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Re: R:CE Martial Arts?

Unread post by barna10 »

Rimmerdal wrote:Anyone consider a N&SS CE earth setting as a game?


This wouldn't work since there are no martial arts in CE :)
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Re: R:CE Martial Arts?

Unread post by Rimmerdal »

barna10 wrote:
Rimmerdal wrote:Anyone consider a N&SS CE earth setting as a game?


This wouldn't work since there are no martial arts in CE :)


I could see martial skills suddenly becoming able to certain MA special powers as a result of all the ley line activity..might be a good means to balance the powers and give the humans an edge. One would need be selective..and could include certain N&SS enemies as well. Can see a Ninja clan starting to try and take over portions of NA or Japan, Samurai gangs establishing turf and even a few ancient and immortal types joining one faction or another to spice it up..provided the GM was comfortable with his N&SS material.
taalismn wrote:
Rimmerdal wrote:mmm Rifts street meat..


Flooper. Fried, broiled, or chipped.
It's like eating Chinese.
FLOOP! And you're hungry again.
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Re: R:CE Martial Arts?

Unread post by Lt Gargoyle »

Rimmerdal wrote:
barna10 wrote:
Rimmerdal wrote:Anyone consider a N&SS CE earth setting as a game?


This wouldn't work since there are no martial arts in CE :)


I could see martial skills suddenly becoming able to certain MA special powers as a result of all the ley line activity..might be a good means to balance the powers and give the humans an edge. One would need be selective..and could include certain N&SS enemies as well. Can see a Ninja clan starting to try and take over portions of NA or Japan, Samurai gangs establishing turf and even a few ancient and immortal types joining one faction or another to spice it up..provided the GM was comfortable with his N&SS material.


I agree with the Ley Lines making MA Powers come to life, even if its just simple stuff, like psychic powers. especially those which effect the body. Like some type of body hardening which prevent a handful of mdc from doing harm per lvl of experience.

I do not believe martial arts would disappear just because the world found this epic peace. I think it may take on new meanings, and be turned more to sport then a killing art. but with this logic martial arts should be already gone. most of the major powers people have peace. And violence is a crime in most countries. Yet we keep studying and passing it on.
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Re: R:CE Martial Arts?

Unread post by Tor »

N&SS indicated some like Tai Chi and Judo and Aikido would survive the Rifts.
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Re: R:CE Martial Arts?

Unread post by Lt Gargoyle »

Tor wrote:N&SS indicated some like Tai Chi and Judo and Aikido would survive the Rifts.



I think a lot of styles would survive the coming of the rifts. Kempo karate, several forms of kung fu would survive. so i can easily see those two surviving since they are pretty popular in the world.
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Re: R:CE Martial Arts?

Unread post by Kagashi »

Personally, I see no reason why MA from Ninjas and Superspies and Mystic China wouldnt be available to anybody in the Golden Age. Not everybody would pursue it (Id bet there would be quite a few lazy "normal" people would wouldnt have H2H at all), but it would be commercialized and available.

The key word would be "commercialized". This means you can go to that Ninjitsu school every Tuesday and Thursday and test for your next belt every 3 months as long as you memorized the next kata. Sure, you will gain some fighting experience and some useful techniques, but in no way you would be true martial artist. This would be the same as those kids who go train for a few weeks at some MMA camp and think they are now a "UFC Fighter". I would consider what I just explained as "H2H Martial Arts" at best, perhaps only Expert.

In order to benefit from the full range of powers and bonuses from MC or N&SS, I say you must be a Worldly or Dedicated Martial Artist OCC from N&SS or one of the Martial Arts OCCs from Mystic China. And only after the Great Cataclysm occurred, would your chi powers start to manifest into MDC effects. This would be the only way I would allow chi powers in a CE game...to the people who devote their lives to live and breathe the martial art on a day to day basis. Bruce Lee, Georges St. Pierre, Bas Rutten...these guys who do their MA every day would be good examples. There would be no way a Glitter Boy Pilot could devote his time to NEMA tactics, piloting a robot, learning weapon systems, and so on...AND devote the time needed to hone his martial arts skills. There just isnt enough time in a day.

Alternately, rather than use the level enhancements of H2H Martial Arts for the first category, Id consider letting somebody use the level advancements from a specific martial art, but with some limitations:

- It would be the level advancements only, no skills, starting powers, SDC/attribute bonuses, or any other aspects of the chosen martial art.
- Cannot be an exclusive martial art. Those are reserved for Dedicated Martial Artists. Sorry, pick something else.
- Any powers gained in the level advancement will NEVER do MD level attack, or provide MDC level protection. Sorry, but you are simply not dedicated enough to hone your chi to where it needs to be.

This will represent the familiarity of a specific martial art, if the H2H MA is too generic for you, but at the same time represent the fact that the character has devoted time and attention to other skills and aspects of his/her life as well.

Basically, if you want to be a dedicated martial artist and take all the cool MD chi powers involved, you might start the game with a pair of 4 ounce MMA gloves and a pair of boxing trunks while the rest of the group is clad in MDC power and body armors, and wielding MD plasma cannons.
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Re: R:CE Martial Arts?

Unread post by Lt Gargoyle »

Kagashi wrote:Personally, I see no reason why MA from Ninjas and Superspies and Mystic China wouldnt be available to anybody in the Golden Age. Not everybody would pursue it (Id bet there would be quite a few lazy "normal" people would wouldnt have H2H at all), but it would be commercialized and available.

The key word would be "commercialized". This means you can go to that Ninjitsu school every Tuesday and Thursday and test for your next belt every 3 months as long as you memorized the next kata. Sure, you will gain some fighting experience and some useful techniques, but in no way you would be true martial artist. This would be the same as those kids who go train for a few weeks at some MMA camp and think they are now a "UFC Fighter". I would consider what I just explained as "H2H Martial Arts" at best, perhaps only Expert.

In order to benefit from the full range of powers and bonuses from MC or N&SS, I say you must be a Worldly or Dedicated Martial Artist OCC from N&SS or one of the Martial Arts OCCs from Mystic China. And only after the Great Cataclysm occurred, would your chi powers start to manifest into MDC effects. This would be the only way I would allow chi powers in a CE game...to the people who devote their lives to live and breathe the martial art on a day to day basis. Bruce Lee, Georges St. Pierre, Bas Rutten...these guys who do their MA every day would be good examples. There would be no way a Glitter Boy Pilot could devote his time to NEMA tactics, piloting a robot, learning weapon systems, and so on...AND devote the time needed to hone his martial arts skills. There just isnt enough time in a day.

Alternately, rather than use the level enhancements of H2H Martial Arts for the first category, Id consider letting somebody use the level advancements from a specific martial art, but with some limitations:

- It would be the level advancements only, no skills, starting powers, SDC/attribute bonuses, or any other aspects of the chosen martial art.
- Cannot be an exclusive martial art. Those are reserved for Dedicated Martial Artists. Sorry, pick something else.
- Any powers gained in the level advancement will NEVER do MD level attack, or provide MDC level protection. Sorry, but you are simply not dedicated enough to hone your chi to where it needs to be.

This will represent the familiarity of a specific martial art, if the H2H MA is too generic for you, but at the same time represent the fact that the character has devoted time and attention to other skills and aspects of his/her life as well.

Basically, if you want to be a dedicated martial artist and take all the cool MD chi powers involved, you might start the game with a pair of 4 ounce MMA gloves and a pair of boxing trunks while the rest of the group is clad in MDC power and body armors, and wielding MD plasma cannons.



While I agree that by this point in the Golden Age of pre-rifts earth most Martial arts would be truly watered down. But I also think that there would be people who still train in martial arts in a lethal manor.
Also you do not need to train 8 hours a day everyday to be a good lethal martial artist, where you can be hit in the throat and not be seriously injured. And most who get hit in the throat and keep standing are ready for the hit. This is the channel of chi. you can do other things and still train to this level.

As for a Martial Art such as Ninjitsu, this is an assassin, so its martial art training should be only a OCC style of martial arts. You would not be taught Ninjitsu unless you were a ninja. You could have some martial arts school say they are teaching Ninjitsu, but its not Ninjitsu. And i can see a Ninja being trained by his or her clan to be able to operate robots or power armor. or any other skill which would allow them to get to their target.
So yes i do agree with you on the OCC martial arts being only for those OCCs.

However the true mishandling of hand to hand combat from what i can see, is the basic, expert and Martial arts, assassin and even commando titles. Assassin should be an OCC type Hand to hand. Commando can be used for special forces types. However the basic, expert and martial artist are technically the same thing. SO Martial arts should be titled Master. This is the guy who trains daily for a couple hours. expert several times a week and basic is the guy who took some basic training and maybe a goes once a week.
truthfully everyone should still be in some type of training until they have leveled up to 15th level. Because your always learning. How you are learning may change as you advance through the levels. Such as where my friends and i sit there and design our techniques and then work through them and figure out what will and will not work in a fight. yet i still love to go to other schools and train and learn even more stuff.
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