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Unread postPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2016 4:40 am
  

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Hero

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Not sure where to actually put this thread as it doesn't have much to do with the Chaos Earth that has been released, but rather with the original idea for Chaos Earth as proposed in Rifter #7 (from way back in 1999).

The premise of that version of Chaos Earth wasn't survival during the Great Cataclysm that lead to Rifts Earth, but rather a parallel Earth where the trigger event happened a mere 30 minutes earlier... meaning it wasn't the Winter Solstice or the hour of Midnight when the deaths of millions occurred to trigger the rebirth of magic.

So how much difference can a mere 30 minutes make? According to what was presented... lots. The natural disasters that doomed human civilization on Rifts Earth still occurred, but not as severely... about 2/3rd less severe. This means that while many nations were severely hurt, they weren't entirely crippled by them. This allowed for emergency responders (police, military and such) to mount an effective defense in most nations to prevent the utter collapse of civilization... as least for many nations.

So the basic spin on this original concept is... What if civilization didn't collapse because of the violent rebirth of Magic? How would governments respond to obvious supernatural threats such as demons and monsters? How would the Golden Age of Man be reshaped by the return of Magic? Would mankind embrace or reject the presence of other intelligent (though alien) beings who now find themselves stuck on Earth?

While the Chaos Earth we have come to know is still amazing (if a little depressing due to the fact that we know what the world will become), I still find myself wondering what of this other vision... where brave men and women fought and managed to keep civilization from collapsing (at least so far). A world where the struggles don't seem quite as depressing because we can see that they are making a difference... and where the names of these heroes and their sacrifices will be remembered. Surely I can't be the only one who would like to see this vision of what Chaos Earth might have been become a setting... even if just a Dimension Book for Rifts (though it could be its own series).

Since the title of Chaos Earth now belongs to a different setting... what would we call this alternate version? Havoc Earth?

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Unread postPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2016 10:03 am
  

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Inconvenienced Earth.

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Unread postPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2016 11:23 pm
  

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Hero

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Glistam wrote:
Inconvenienced Earth.


I would think they are a little more than inconvenienced. Even after 20 years (give or take) society is still on the verge of collapse in this setting (kind of hard to mount a serious defense when demonic incursions can happen nearly anywhere at any time). Many countries, mostly in Europe and Asia have collapsed... and little has been heard from South America, Africa or Australia. Even Mexico is having serious problems with a Vampire plague prompting the building of a wall across the southern border of the United States.

On a bright note... I'm betting that many of the scientists in the setting that once scoffed at the writings of Victor Lazlo as pure fiction and hokum are now praising him as a brilliant visionary who tried to warn a world that wouldn't listen.

Unlike in the Shadowrun setting, the rebirth of magic on this Earth isn't a gradual thing... where people are given years to get used to it... and the return of non-human beings. In this setting, magic's return was both sudden and violent... and many countries will have had to deal with hundreds, possibly thousands of non-humans literally dropped on their laps with no warning... with a good portion of them being supernatural beings that see nothing wrong with the maiming and torture of humans and other mortals. Suddenly the orderly lives of people is not longer quite as predictable as it once was... and with the governments seemingly unable to keep things under control (or even explain what happened), people are willing to turn to anyone... or anything... that can provide protection in such uncertain times.

I would say inconvenienced is an understatement of what things are like.

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Unread postPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2016 9:53 am
  

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Comment: The silent thief of Rozrehxeson.
Compared to Chaos Earth, they were merely inconvenienced. But fine, how about: Mithril Age Earth, New Age Earth, Pandemonium Earth, Besieged Earth.

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Unread postPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2016 1:36 pm
  

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Hero

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That's like saying that a community hit by an earthquake has merely been inconvenienced in comparison to one hit by a tsunami.

Both Earths are struggling to cope with an insane and impossible situation... the violent rebirth of magic and the sudden appearance of the supernatural. Just because one didn't have civilization collapse overnight doesn't mean they are merely inconvenienced by the event... people still died by the thousands, and people are still dying in the setting (many governments, mostly in Europe, have fallen). Sure, they have the resources and leadership to mount a bit more of a defense against the demons and monsters that are now appearing... but I would hardly say that it is a mere inconvenience.

An inconvenience suggests that something is a minor annoyance... such as stopping at a red light when you are late. Having all of the civilized world on the verge of collapse for at least two decades as they try to cope with an aspect of nature no one realized existed seems like a little more than spilling coffee on one's shirt.

Still... Pandemonium and Besieged Earths sound good (Mithril Age Earth sounds like a fantasy setting... while New Age Earth sounds like a hippie psychedelic type setting).

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Unread postPosted: Sat Nov 26, 2016 4:59 am
  

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Hero

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So... beyond offering suggestions for what to rename this alternate Earth... no one has any interest in exploring how the Golden Age of Man would cope with the sudden and violent rebirth of magic?

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Unread postPosted: Sat Nov 26, 2016 12:24 pm
  

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Comment: The silent thief of Rozrehxeson.
I think it would make a great location to visit in a dimension-hop, or even a great character background to have come fron this Earth, but I wouldn't want to run a campaign in this setting.

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Unread postPosted: Sat Nov 26, 2016 9:24 pm
  

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Hero

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Why not?

There is bound to be just as much potential adventure with this Besieged Earth as there is on either Chaos Earth or even Rifts Earth. You can still have the heart pounding desperate rescue missions, the blood racing chases... even the bizarre mystical investigations you do in these other versions.

50 years may have passed in this setting since the Rise of Magic, but that doesn't mean that it has been easy... or that the future is secure. Imagine how our world would react to the sudden appearance of magic; monsters and demons roaming the land; aliens from other worlds and/or dimensions living next to us. The political and economic upheavals of this, plus numerous natural disasters that have likely happened (and may still be happening)... not only in North America, but around the world... and the possibilities for adventure are nearly endless. Then there is the discovery of other worlds... that can be reached as easily as walking from one room to the next.

Is it that there is still some vestige of civilization and an organized government that makes you feel that this setting isn't worth adventuring in? How is that different than the military discipline prevalent in Chaos Earth... or any of the governments on Rifts Earth that one might be working for? Even Splicers work for Warlords, Heroes have to deal with governments on HU Earth... and Nightbane have to deal with whatever organization they work for. Hell... chances are that even on Palladium, you will end up dealing with one of the major nations... or those who work for them at some point. This setting is no different than those in that Players will deal with governments and organizations at some level... but how much will depend on both them and the GM.

Can't you imagine how different the world of Rifts might have been if the USA or Canada didn't fall during the Great Cataclysm. Would the Splugorth have been able to claim Atlantis for their own if they had to contend with established nations with ready militaries that might also have an interest in the area? Could the Vampire Kingdoms of Mexico become as entrenched as they are on Rifts Earth with NEMA running recon and rescue missions? With still functioning governments on Earth, the orbital communities wouldn't have been cut off from Earth... allowing for both to help each other rebuild and repair needed infrastructures... such as satellite telecommunications (and provides yet another avenue for possible adventures).

Simply put, it is very likely that characters in this setting will have a clearer picture of what is going on in the world... though precise details are likely to still be fuzzy.

Earth may have had 50 years to get used to the idea that magic and the supernatural are real... but that doesn't mean it has gotten used to it... or that it has been an easy road to get to where they are now (or that things are even close to being stable now). Will there be as strong a Human Supremacist attitude or anti-magic sentiments... could there be a strong anti-tech movement?

All I see is possibilities that bring up new questions that open even more possibilities.

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Unread postPosted: Wed Dec 07, 2016 12:34 pm
  

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Take North America. Is it a patchwork of occupied, and federally controlled territories? Has the countries abandoned regions and shrunk to what they can protect? What do the governments do with D-Bees that could be potential allies (Cyber Horseman, Blucies, Elves, etc)? What about the Native American tribes? Are they separate powers? Do the governments have Psistalker legions? What about mutant animals?

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Unread postPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2016 1:17 pm
  

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Great questions.

From what little we do know... presented in Rifter #7, is more or less the following.

1) Canada and the United States have formed the North American Coalition... possibly the last bastion of Advanced Civilization in the world. While Mexico was once a member, natural disasters and supernatural activity has seen the country more or less collapse in on itself and contact has recently been lost (great fuel for an adventure to find out what happened and rescue civilians, yes?).

2) A massive wall along the Mexican border nears completion, an attempt to stem the flood of potential vampires from crossing into the States (with vampire populations apparently 500% higher than originally estimated). It is seen by many as hope that the threat can at least be contained.

3) Windsor and Detroit are a No-Man's land that have been nuked... in a futile attempt to stem the tide of demonic creatures coming through the rifts. They were the first (but not last?) cities decimated by their own governments and are the site of some of the more intense fighting with supernatural forces still. What other cities have shared a similar fate (Calgary)?

4) From the Ohio Valley to the Gulf of Mexico is in shambles as the few places that haven't lost communications are under martial law as Coalition forces try to maintain some form of order in the face of growing spiritualism, shamanism and other magical practices are growing in popularity... despite condemnation by the government that "magic" is dangerous and not fully understood.

5) Texas is a stronghold of the Coalition and is seen as a secondary government capitol due to the relatively low magical activity in the area.

6) Montana, Utah and Wyoming have ceded from the United States and the Coalition, forming their own sovereign nation... though the reason for this isn't clear (perhaps they are a little more tolerant of magic and peaceful D-Bees?). This has had the effect of cutting off California and Nevada (hit hard by various disasters) from the rest of the country and left to fend for themselves.

7) The Northern, Mid-Western and Northeastern States and Southern and Eastern Canada remain the strongest parts of the country... with Quebec acting as a stable anchor for both.

Not much else was described in the book about North America... so it is still pretty open to development with the setting. It could be interesting to do so... even if just as a Rifter article. :D

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Unread postPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2016 3:24 pm
  

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Triggered Earth.


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Unread postPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2016 6:54 pm
  

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I'm a bit confused. I thought the chain reaction of mass death+multiplied by alignment+multipled by solstace=runaway reaction killing more and more resulting in the return of magic.

if it happened 30 minutes earlier, all you'd have is a vanilla nuclear exchange with no magic involved. We already know what this Alternate Earth is called--it's the After the Bomb setting :D

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Unread postPosted: Fri Dec 09, 2016 12:20 pm
  

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It is 30 minutes to midnight of the winter solstice during a planetary alignment. The world's mystic energy is still very high, due to the planetary alignment, but the smaller cataclysm that results won't be done by the time Midnight comes and the ley lines flair again.

The deaths of millions during this time will still be overwhelming for the local ley lines, triggering lower level cataclysm, but when midnight comes, all that energy will spread across the planet like a flash flood, triggering similar disasters world wide and leading to a lot more deaths. The death toll won't be as severe as it is durring the Great Cataclysm on Rifts Earth, but it will still be huge. Instead of billions dying in the first months it is likely to be only 10s or 100s of millions... but it is still plenty.

And it isn't just people that are feeding their PPE into the ley lines... but also every plant and animal too (even insects). True, on an individual basis, they don't have much to add... but insects alone outnumber people by billions to one... and collectively they can contribute a significant amount... especially when killed by a nuclear blast that doesn't distinguish between what it kills.

By the end of the Great Cataclysm on Rifts Earth, the human population wend from over 10 billion to maybe 10 million world wide (possibly less) and lasted decades. On this Earth, the population is estimated to still be in the billions (2 or 3 give or take) by the end of this event, which only lasted a few years before settling down. The over all level of magic on this Earth would be about 1/3 to 2/3 of what is present on Rifts Earth.

The After the Bomb setting has a different premise entirely... there was no planetary alignment to amplify the world's magic (it likely happened before 2098). The population was already being devastated by an engineered virus that was not only proving to be fatal to many humans, but also mutating most animals into a humanoid form... before the first bombs dropped... thus the populations of most cities were already low (with many fleeing to the wilder areas in a futile attempt to get away from the virus). This means that when the bombs dropped, their devastation was great, but they caused far less death than they would have if humanity hadn't already been in decline. This means that the ley lines on this Earth were capable of dispersing the PPE they received which was more widely dispersed and over a greater period of time (months and years opposed to minutes and hours).

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Unread postPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2017 1:34 pm
  

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I think it is a rather cool idea.

I can somewhat see it being like Beyond the Supernatural just with a lot more high tech feel to it.
I could see some countries embracing D Bees or at least welcoming tech/philosophy ideas. Magic could be one of the things D Bees bring.
Would there be massive cover up efforts by governments ? Or is the situation to widespread for them to keep under wraps ?

Either way I could see this as a nice dimension book to explore.

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Unread postPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 5:25 pm
  

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Think about some of the melding of tech with magic. Look at things like the Anti-Monster, Ultra Crazy, and Mega Juicer that mix tech and magic a bit, but with a higher tech support base to start with.

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Unread postPosted: Tue Mar 28, 2017 3:38 pm
  

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honestly i rather prefer the version we got. the original rifter article was just too... "rifts light". it basically was Rifts earth, just with even fewer post-apoc elements and some name changes. which to be honest, made it hard to reconcile with the name "chaos earth". i mean, it had less chaos going on than regular Rifts earth.

Chaos Earth being during the cataclysm has the novelty of being one of the few post-apoc RPG's to actually be set during the height of the world changing events.. and pretty much the only one (to my knowledge) of that type to be set during events that carry existential risk to the human species, not just our governments. plus it makes for an interesting dynamic with Rifts, in how many of the things that fall in the category of "legends and myth" for people 300 years later are in CE what your characters consider the norm.

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Unread postPosted: Thu Aug 03, 2017 1:09 pm
  

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Razorwing wrote:
Not sure where to actually put this thread as it doesn't have much to do with the Chaos Earth that has been released, but rather with the original idea for Chaos Earth as proposed in Rifter #7 (from way back in 1999).

The premise of that version of Chaos Earth wasn't survival during the Great Cataclysm that lead to Rifts Earth, but rather a parallel Earth where the trigger event happened a mere 30 minutes earlier... meaning it wasn't the Winter Solstice or the hour of Midnight when the deaths of millions occurred to trigger the rebirth of magic.

So how much difference can a mere 30 minutes make? According to what was presented... lots. The natural disasters that doomed human civilization on Rifts Earth still occurred, but not as severely... about 2/3rd less severe. This means that while many nations were severely hurt, they weren't entirely crippled by them. This allowed for emergency responders (police, military and such) to mount an effective defense in most nations to prevent the utter collapse of civilization... as least for many nations.

So the basic spin on this original concept is... What if civilization didn't collapse because of the violent rebirth of Magic? How would governments respond to obvious supernatural threats such as demons and monsters? How would the Golden Age of Man be reshaped by the return of Magic? Would mankind embrace or reject the presence of other intelligent (though alien) beings who now find themselves stuck on Earth?

While the Chaos Earth we have come to know is still amazing (if a little depressing due to the fact that we know what the world will become), I still find myself wondering what of this other vision... where brave men and women fought and managed to keep civilization from collapsing (at least so far). A world where the struggles don't seem quite as depressing because we can see that they are making a difference... and where the names of these heroes and their sacrifices will be remembered. Surely I can't be the only one who would like to see this vision of what Chaos Earth might have been become a setting... even if just a Dimension Book for Rifts (though it could be its own series).

Since the title of Chaos Earth now belongs to a different setting... what would we call this alternate version? Havoc Earth?


I'm glad I saw this thread.

Actually, until the last 6 months or so, I always thought this is what Chaos Earth was. I remember the original article in the Rifter, and I thought the idea was pretty cool. Then I moved halfway across the country for several years, and didn't take another look at Palladium until a long time later. I have skimmed the Chaos Earth books, but our group has never played that setting. I didn't know that the background had changed until somebody on this board mentioned it a little while back, and I thought "that's not right, it's a parallel world".

Anyway, I think the original setting is more interesting than just "early Rifts Earth".


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Unread postPosted: Thu Aug 03, 2017 5:12 pm
  

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Knight

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Seeing this again makes me want to try running a weird Rifts game with pre-rifts originating characters that some how come together. A NEMA popsicle, Russian or German borg, maybe a Japanese policeman, and similar.

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Unread postPosted: Sat Aug 05, 2017 9:48 pm
  

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Eagle wrote:
Razorwing wrote:
Not sure where to actually put this thread as it doesn't have much to do with the Chaos Earth that has been released, but rather with the original idea for Chaos Earth as proposed in Rifter #7 (from way back in 1999).

The premise of that version of Chaos Earth wasn't survival during the Great Cataclysm that lead to Rifts Earth, but rather a parallel Earth where the trigger event happened a mere 30 minutes earlier... meaning it wasn't the Winter Solstice or the hour of Midnight when the deaths of millions occurred to trigger the rebirth of magic.

So how much difference can a mere 30 minutes make? According to what was presented... lots. The natural disasters that doomed human civilization on Rifts Earth still occurred, but not as severely... about 2/3rd less severe. This means that while many nations were severely hurt, they weren't entirely crippled by them. This allowed for emergency responders (police, military and such) to mount an effective defense in most nations to prevent the utter collapse of civilization... as least for many nations.

So the basic spin on this original concept is... What if civilization didn't collapse because of the violent rebirth of Magic? How would governments respond to obvious supernatural threats such as demons and monsters? How would the Golden Age of Man be reshaped by the return of Magic? Would mankind embrace or reject the presence of other intelligent (though alien) beings who now find themselves stuck on Earth?

While the Chaos Earth we have come to know is still amazing (if a little depressing due to the fact that we know what the world will become), I still find myself wondering what of this other vision... where brave men and women fought and managed to keep civilization from collapsing (at least so far). A world where the struggles don't seem quite as depressing because we can see that they are making a difference... and where the names of these heroes and their sacrifices will be remembered. Surely I can't be the only one who would like to see this vision of what Chaos Earth might have been become a setting... even if just a Dimension Book for Rifts (though it could be its own series).

Since the title of Chaos Earth now belongs to a different setting... what would we call this alternate version? Havoc Earth?


i really love this
Quote:
original idea for Chaos Earth as proposed in Rifter #7 (from way back in 1999).
then CE that we have now IDK why it was change IMHO still like CE that

1) Canada and the United States survives
2) A massive wall along the Mexican border .wow Donald trump dream came true LOL
3)Texas is a stronghold
4)shamanism or Indian nation join what left of the Canada and the United States
5)The Northern, Mid-Western and Northeastern States and Southern and Eastern Canada/Quebec remain the strongest parts of the country
6)Mexico lost due to vampires
7) central America gone due to vampires and ocean level going up
8 ) south America Columbia and other small nation like SSR come to from
10) the orbital communities wouldn't have been cut off from Earth... allowing for both to help each other rebuild and repair needed infrastructures... such as satellite telecommunication
11) only Germany in Europe rest small city states join Germany
12) Russian government survives but warlords come out of the wood works
13)middle eastern nations gone
14) Africa nations gone
15)china small nation army survive under demon rule no one knows this
16) New navy still US navy survives and allied later with Lemuria
17) japan come back 300 years or so later and allies with US ,Canada , Germany and Columbia due to satellite telecommunication
18) Australia two nation states survives and join Japan ,US ,Canada , Germany and Columbia due to satellite

yup this was my game long time ago , miss these games now :(

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