Shaw,s fleet vs the Golgans,who wins?

[gaby]

One of the campaign idea in Fleets of three galaxies,is Shaw,s fleet vs the Golgans to save the Altess.
How to you see the campaign and it,s Aftermath?

[taalismn]

I'm interested in hearing what your take is, first, and how you justify it.
Take a position, extrapolate, provide examples, prepare your defense, and let's rumble.

[gaby]

Well Shaw have a Good fleet,teaming up with Altess,s ships,they can Hold the Golgans at by,the the CCW can reforce them with ships from the UWW,s border(I do not known if the CCW share a border with UWW)another power like the Splugorth can see ther chance and Raid some Golgan,s world.
Altess will rejoin the CCW briging ther big economie with them.

[taalismn]

Well Shaw have a Good fleet,teaming up with Altess,s ships,they can Hold the Golgans at by,the the CCW can reforce them with ships from the UWW,s border(I do not known if the CCW share a border with UWW)another power like the Splugorth can see ther chance and Raid some Golgan,s world.
Altess will rejoin the CCW briging ther big economie with them.

Depends how badly the Minion War affects the UWW; they're both the best equipped to handle the demonic war waging, and the most vulnerable, because the Infernals are going to want to neutralize them. If they get into a fight, the CCW forces in the region will get sucked in, and thus unavailable.
Frankly, I don't think the fight's going to go down long enough for the CCW to haul in forces from another 'peaceful' border like the UWW(or for another power like the Splugorth to take advantage of the Golgan diversion of assets to the Altess campaign). Remember, Shaw was posted to Altess space because it's far enough from areas where Shaw might feel tempted to put some of his tactical thinking to use and start an incident. The stereotype will be that Shaw, through pluck and cunning, is going to rip the Golgans a new one and bring the Altess around to joining the CCW without reservations. The reality is, the Golgans might play it clever too; they know that the Altess, even without the bulk of their armaments, can drop wads of cash and hire every merc in the arm to defend their worlds, so they're going to come prepared to make a knockout blow. Expensive to mount a campaign against an opponent the future sez will be effectively unarmed? Maybe, for the struggling Republik, but it will be even more expensive if they lose, so they'll come in numbers and hope to make the expenditure back from ransoms extracted from the Altess.
Quantity's going to have a quality all its own, and Shaw's going to have a fight on his hands, mostly by himself and whatever scratch forces the Armoria can pull together quick. He's going to do substantial damage to the Golgans and beat them back, yes, by the skin of his teeth, but he'll bleed for it.
The Altess will loosen up a little towards the CCW, at least for as long as it takes for them to rebuild their military reserves and put some reforms in so that all their strategic eggs aren't in the same basket. They might even persuade Naruni Enterprises to cut the CCW some slack on equipment sales(not suspecting the CCW is ramping up their copy campaign knocking off NE products). Shaw's going to be lauded by the Altess, especially if he really guns into the froggies in Altess space despite taking heavy losses, and the Armoria will want to hire him away from the CCW as a consultant for their rebuilding. But the Altess are also going to step up their mercenary hiring, maybe even recruiting from the Central Alliance, with the lure of good equipment from Naruni(Or Hartigal may step forward with a better deal for the Altess and their hired parties). It's not going to be open arms into the CCW, despite what the triVee dramas predict, but it will be better than nothing.

[SolCannibal]

As an aside, would it be possible for the Golgans to absorb the Altess through a mix of pressure, flattering, diplomacy (and factional backstabbing)?

Yes, the Altess would technically be absorbed into the Republik as vassals but if the takeover happens in a quick and relatively bloodless way the Altess would keep most of their infrastructure, business contacts and could make use of both in becoming the banking/industrial arm of the Republik, in practice becoming a power behind the throne, in a scheme much similar to the move the Oni intend to do with the CCW - with the difference the Altess are established enough and the Golgan Republik fragile enough for them to pull it off, what i find doubtful in the Bushi Federation and CCW's case.

[Svartalf]

The Golgans are unstable as they are, the Altess are wealthy enough to raise a force to beat them militarily, or just to sabotage them internally... If they wanted, the Republik would become a bunch of Altess client planets

[SolCannibal]

The Golgans are unstable as they are, the Altess are wealthy enough to raise a force to beat them militarily, or just to sabotage them internally... If they wanted, the Republik would become a bunch of Altess client planets

Both things are possible. That said mercenary armies are not exactly the most motivated, loyal and coordinated of military forces and the Altess do have a long tradition of intrigue and backstabbing. Sacrificing rivals for the sake of a "surprising defeat", dividing their spoils with the "conquerors" and a quick surrender that dupes the power bloc in serving their interest without sacrificing one's actual resources in a protracted conflict can serve their interests too.

[taalismn]

Worse yet, the Golgan effort to benefit from taking over the Altess and use their vast wealth to defray the costs of the Kultural Revolution are going to fall flat. Most Altess wealth is in investments in other places, some of which aren't even aware the Altess are invested in them. It's not localized industrial might in Altess territory that the Golgans can take over and run for their own benefit. The Altess can hide the ID codes and PIN numbers, whole records, of their portfolios, and tip their outside agents to beware coerced access attempts. Hell, governments and agencies AWARE of Altess investment will freeze those assets rather than let the Republik empty them out.
At best the Golgans are forced to physically loot actual Altess facilities, which amounts to haphazard chicken-stealing, toting off office furniture and lobby art, chump change compared to the REAL wealth of the Altess. That's not going to pay for the 1,000+ new command ships and tens of thousands of other new vessels Gaus Binjo had constructed. And the Altess in exile with access to those funds and investments will be making sure the Revolution gets even more expensive when they start bankrolling retaliation.

[SolCannibal]

Worse yet, the Golgan effort to benefit from taking over the Altess and use their vast wealth to defray the costs of the Kultural Revolution are going to fall flat. Most Altess wealth is in investments in other places, some of which aren't even aware the Altess are invested in them. It's not localized industrial might in Altess territory that the Golgans can take over and run for their own benefit. The Altess can hide the ID codes and PIN numbers, whole records, of their portfolios, and tip their outside agents to beware coerced access attempts. Hell, governments and agencies AWARE of Altess investment will freeze those assets rather than let the Republik empty them out.
At best the Golgans are forced to physically loot actual Altess facilities, which amounts to haphazard chicken-stealing, toting off office furniture and lobby art, chump change compared to the REAL wealth of the Altess. That's not going to pay for the 1,000+ new command ships and tens of thousands of other new vessels Gaus Binjo had constructed. And the Altess in exile with access to those funds and investments will be making sure the Revolution gets even more expensive when they start bankrolling retaliation.

Simply put, defeating the Altess through straightforward combat gets you not much of real use for all your expenses - and you might end up with a "vassal" that is gunning to become the real power behind the scenes.

[Nekira Sudacne]

The Golgans are unstable as they are, the Altess are wealthy enough to raise a force to beat them militarily, or just to sabotage them internally... If they wanted, the Republik would become a bunch of Altess client planets

Both things are possible. That said mercenary armies are not exactly the most motivated, loyal and coordinated of military forces and the Altess do have a long tradition of intrigue and backstabbing. Sacrificing rivals for the sake of a "surprising defeat", dividing their spoils with the "conquerors" and a quick surrender that dupes the power bloc in serving their interest without sacrificing one's actual resources in a protracted conflict can serve their interests too.

In the Altess's favor though, is usually the reason that mercenaries are not the most loyal is the possibility of better pay elsewhere. No one can afford to pay like the Altess though, so I would imagine the Altess's mercenaries are far more loyal than most.

[SolCannibal]

The Golgans are unstable as they are, the Altess are wealthy enough to raise a force to beat them militarily, or just to sabotage them internally... If they wanted, the Republik would become a bunch of Altess client planets

Both things are possible. That said mercenary armies are not exactly the most motivated, loyal and coordinated of military forces and the Altess do have a long tradition of intrigue and backstabbing. Sacrificing rivals for the sake of a "surprising defeat", dividing their spoils with the "conquerors" and a quick surrender that dupes the power bloc in serving their interest without sacrificing one's actual resources in a protracted conflict can serve their interests too.

In the Altess's favor though, is usually the reason that mercenaries are not the most loyal is the possibility of better pay elsewhere. No one can afford to pay like the Altess though, so I would imagine the Altess's mercenaries are far more loyal than most.

Someone might pay more, they have no sense of duty beyond their purses what means they will be less disposed to risk or sacrifice themselves than soldiers motivated by patriotism, sense of duty or a desire to protect one's people and loved ones, sabotage definite opportunities of finishing a conflict because as long as it goes in mid to low burn they are getting paid, not to mention occasional bouts of looting or the possibility of ripping off or actually toppling one's contractor if one seems weak or overly reliant on them.

Mercenary forces can be trusted to be cheaper than keeping a regular army all the time but beside it's a case-by-case basis and you're on your own if you trust them. And they and their captains have been problematic since the times of Machiavelli at least.

[Nekira Sudacne]

The Golgans are unstable as they are, the Altess are wealthy enough to raise a force to beat them militarily, or just to sabotage them internally... If they wanted, the Republik would become a bunch of Altess client planets

Both things are possible. That said mercenary armies are not exactly the most motivated, loyal and coordinated of military forces and the Altess do have a long tradition of intrigue and backstabbing. Sacrificing rivals for the sake of a "surprising defeat", dividing their spoils with the "conquerors" and a quick surrender that dupes the power bloc in serving their interest without sacrificing one's actual resources in a protracted conflict can serve their interests too.

In the Altess's favor though, is usually the reason that mercenaries are not the most loyal is the possibility of better pay elsewhere. No one can afford to pay like the Altess though, so I would imagine the Altess's mercenaries are far more loyal than most.

Someone might pay more, they have no sense of duty beyond their purses what means they will be less disposed to risk or sacrifice themselves than soldiers motivated by patriotism, sense of duty or a desire to protect one's people and loved ones, sabotage definite opportunities of finishing a conflict because as long as it goes in mid to low burn they are getting paid, not to mention occasional bouts of looting or the possibility of ripping off or actually toppling one's contractor if one seems weak or overly reliant on them.

Mercenary forces can be trusted to be cheaper than keeping a regular army all the time but beside it's a case-by-case basis and you're on your own if you trust them. And they and their captains have been problematic since the times of Machiavelli at least.

It is wrong to paint all mercenaries as money grubbers who have no sense of duty beyond the next paycheck--while certainly true for many mercenaries, and certainly was a large problem in Italy, the Swiss mercenaries by contrast were heavily sought after in all of europe because they tended to be just as or slightly more reliable than regular units--especially in conscript-heavy armies that were common in the day. And this is to say nothing of the tradition of several german princes to simply rent out units of their regular army as mercenaries during peace--where the Hessen mercenaries and such come from. they are as good as national troops because they are national troops, just on loan--surely the altess can bribe some backward goverments into loaning some very well trained ships and crew?

Mercenaries are people, and like all people they have different types, and over centuries different companies form their own internal standards for duty and dicipline. there's nothing stopping a mercenary company from becoming as reliable as an elite national unit except their own will to do so--and the altess certainly have the time and money to get those rare breeds on their side.

[SolCannibal]

The Golgans are unstable as they are, the Altess are wealthy enough to raise a force to beat them militarily, or just to sabotage them internally... If they wanted, the Republik would become a bunch of Altess client planets

Both things are possible. That said mercenary armies are not exactly the most motivated, loyal and coordinated of military forces and the Altess do have a long tradition of intrigue and backstabbing. Sacrificing rivals for the sake of a "surprising defeat", dividing their spoils with the "conquerors" and a quick surrender that dupes the power bloc in serving their interest without sacrificing one's actual resources in a protracted conflict can serve their interests too.

In the Altess's favor though, is usually the reason that mercenaries are not the most loyal is the possibility of better pay elsewhere. No one can afford to pay like the Altess though, so I would imagine the Altess's mercenaries are far more loyal than most.

Someone might pay more, they have no sense of duty beyond their purses what means they will be less disposed to risk or sacrifice themselves than soldiers motivated by patriotism, sense of duty or a desire to protect one's people and loved ones, sabotage definite opportunities of finishing a conflict because as long as it goes in mid to low burn they are getting paid, not to mention occasional bouts of looting or the possibility of ripping off or actually toppling one's contractor if one seems weak or overly reliant on them.

Mercenary forces can be trusted to be cheaper than keeping a regular army all the time but beside it's a case-by-case basis and you're on your own if you trust them. And they and their captains have been problematic since the times of Machiavelli at least.

It is wrong to paint all mercenaries as money grubbers who have no sense of duty beyond the next paycheck--while certainly true for many mercenaries, and certainly was a large problem in Italy, the Swiss mercenaries by contrast were heavily sought after in all of europe because they tended to be just as or slightly more reliable than regular units--especially in conscript-heavy armies that were common in the day. And this is to say nothing of the tradition of several german princes to simply rent out units of their regular army as mercenaries during peace--where the Hessen mercenaries and such come from. they are as good as national troops because they are national troops, just on loan--surely the altess can bribe some backward goverments into loaning some very well trained ships and crew?

Mercenaries are people, and like all people they have different types, and over centuries different companies form their own internal standards for duty and dicipline. there's nothing stopping a mercenary company from becoming as reliable as an elite national unit except their own will to do so--and the altess certainly have the time and money to get those rare breeds on their side.

People are people - individual cases does not speak for the whole. Not every mercenary company is composed of bastards, monsters, and rogues, nor is every voluntary or conscript in a national army a patriot or dutiful warrior, all extremes are possible in the forges of war, heroism and atrocity are possible to all.

But its what the business is about - risk is also a major part of a merc's work, corpses get no pay and has little to no reason to be attached to a nation over other beside the aformentioned paycheck. With time, planning and patience it might be possible to collect a number of merc units that are somewhat trustworthy but will it be big enough and reliable at the time you need them? We are talking of warring star-nations and collating a mercenary force sufficient for such a scale of conflict might be complicated even if you have the money, not to mention the logistics of coordinating and defining chains of command between hundreds to thousands of merc units while checking any holes you might have to plug in the logistics of it all.

It can work - and pretty well - if you are in the attacking side, specially when the area of actual conflict can't directly spill over in your territory and you have a number of political reasons to minimize your own folk direct involvment in the fighting, but it can get far less pratical if you are the nation in the defensive.

[Nekira Sudacne]

In the Altess's favor though, is usually the reason that mercenaries are not the most loyal is the possibility of better pay elsewhere. No one can afford to pay like the Altess though, so I would imagine the Altess's mercenaries are far more loyal than most.

Someone might pay more, they have no sense of duty beyond their purses what means they will be less disposed to risk or sacrifice themselves than soldiers motivated by patriotism, sense of duty or a desire to protect one's people and loved ones, sabotage definite opportunities of finishing a conflict because as long as it goes in mid to low burn they are getting paid, not to mention occasional bouts of looting or the possibility of ripping off or actually toppling one's contractor if one seems weak or overly reliant on them.

Mercenary forces can be trusted to be cheaper than keeping a regular army all the time but beside it's a case-by-case basis and you're on your own if you trust them. And they and their captains have been problematic since the times of Machiavelli at least.

It is wrong to paint all mercenaries as money grubbers who have no sense of duty beyond the next paycheck--while certainly true for many mercenaries, and certainly was a large problem in Italy, the Swiss mercenaries by contrast were heavily sought after in all of europe because they tended to be just as or slightly more reliable than regular units--especially in conscript-heavy armies that were common in the day. And this is to say nothing of the tradition of several german princes to simply rent out units of their regular army as mercenaries during peace--where the Hessen mercenaries and such come from. they are as good as national troops because they are national troops, just on loan--surely the altess can bribe some backward goverments into loaning some very well trained ships and crew?

Mercenaries are people, and like all people they have different types, and over centuries different companies form their own internal standards for duty and dicipline. there's nothing stopping a mercenary company from becoming as reliable as an elite national unit except their own will to do so--and the altess certainly have the time and money to get those rare breeds on their side.

People are people - individual cases does not speak for the whole. Not every mercenary company is composed of bastards, monsters, and rogues, nor is every voluntary or conscript in a national army a patriot or dutiful warrior, all extremes are possible in the forges of war, heroism and atrocity are possible to all.

But its what the business is about - risk is also a major part of a merc's work, corpses get no pay and has little to no reason to be attached to a nation over other beside the aformentioned paycheck. With time, planning and patience it might be possible to collect a number of merc units that are somewhat trustworthy but will it be big enough and reliable at the time you need them? We are talking of warring star-nations and collating a mercenary force sufficient for such a scale of conflict might be complicated even if you have the money, not to mention the logistics of coordinating and defining chains of command between hundreds to thousands of merc units while checking any holes you might have to plug in the logistics of it all.

It can work - and pretty well - if you are in the attacking side, specially when the area of actual conflict can't directly spill over in your territory and you have a number of political reasons to minimize your own folk direct involvment in the fighting, but it can get far less practical if you are the nation in the defensive.

I agree on all points as a general rule of thumb. my point is I wasn't talking about the feasability of it as a general rule of thumb, but the Altess specifically. and the Altess have been amassing their mercenary defenders for centuries, as the wealthiest people in the galaxy with lifespans in the centuries. It is in fact difficult to do--very difficult, but from my reading of things, the altess have already done it--spending the centuries and the trillions of credits required to do so. and yes, it was a very impractical decision.

However, the Altess routinely go with impractical decisions they make work by throwing more and more time and money at their problems. the fact this was an impractical way to build a reliable defensive fleet dosen't change the fact it's what they chose to do, and while they spent untold billions more than they had to doing it, there's no reason to think it'll be any less reliable than a regular national defensive force--just more expensive and many more years than was strictly necessary.

Good thing they had money to burn anyway.

[SolCannibal]

In the Altess's favor though, is usually the reason that mercenaries are not the most loyal is the possibility of better pay elsewhere. No one can afford to pay like the Altess though, so I would imagine the Altess's mercenaries are far more loyal than most.

Someone might pay more, they have no sense of duty beyond their purses what means they will be less disposed to risk or sacrifice themselves than soldiers motivated by patriotism, sense of duty or a desire to protect one's people and loved ones, sabotage definite opportunities of finishing a conflict because as long as it goes in mid to low burn they are getting paid, not to mention occasional bouts of looting or the possibility of ripping off or actually toppling one's contractor if one seems weak or overly reliant on them.

Mercenary forces can be trusted to be cheaper than keeping a regular army all the time but beside it's a case-by-case basis and you're on your own if you trust them. And they and their captains have been problematic since the times of Machiavelli at least.

It is wrong to paint all mercenaries as money grubbers who have no sense of duty beyond the next paycheck--while certainly true for many mercenaries, and certainly was a large problem in Italy, the Swiss mercenaries by contrast were heavily sought after in all of europe because they tended to be just as or slightly more reliable than regular units--especially in conscript-heavy armies that were common in the day. And this is to say nothing of the tradition of several german princes to simply rent out units of their regular army as mercenaries during peace--where the Hessen mercenaries and such come from. they are as good as national troops because they are national troops, just on loan--surely the altess can bribe some backward goverments into loaning some very well trained ships and crew?

Mercenaries are people, and like all people they have different types, and over centuries different companies form their own internal standards for duty and dicipline. there's nothing stopping a mercenary company from becoming as reliable as an elite national unit except their own will to do so--and the altess certainly have the time and money to get those rare breeds on their side.

People are people - individual cases does not speak for the whole. Not every mercenary company is composed of bastards, monsters, and rogues, nor is every voluntary or conscript in a national army a patriot or dutiful warrior, all extremes are possible in the forges of war, heroism and atrocity are possible to all.

But its what the business is about - risk is also a major part of a merc's work, corpses get no pay and has little to no reason to be attached to a nation over other beside the aformentioned paycheck. With time, planning and patience it might be possible to collect a number of merc units that are somewhat trustworthy but will it be big enough and reliable at the time you need them? We are talking of warring star-nations and collating a mercenary force sufficient for such a scale of conflict might be complicated even if you have the money, not to mention the logistics of coordinating and defining chains of command between hundreds to thousands of merc units while checking any holes you might have to plug in the logistics of it all.

It can work - and pretty well - if you are in the attacking side, specially when the area of actual conflict can't directly spill over in your territory and you have a number of political reasons to minimize your own folk direct involvment in the fighting, but it can get far less practical if you are the nation in the defensive.

I agree on all points as a general rule of thumb. my point is I wasn't talking about the feasability of it as a general rule of thumb, but the Altess specifically. and the Altess have been amassing their mercenary defenders for centuries, as the wealthiest people in the galaxy with lifespans in the centuries. It is in fact difficult to do--very difficult, but from my reading of things, the altess have already done it--spending the centuries and the trillions of credits required to do so. and yes, it was a very impractical decision.

However, the Altess routinely go with impractical decisions they make work by throwing more and more time and money at their problems. the fact this was an impractical way to build a reliable defensive fleet dosen't change the fact it's what they chose to do, and while they spent untold billions more than they had to doing it, there's no reason to think it'll be any less reliable than a regular national defensive force--just more expensive and many more years than was strictly necessary.

Good thing they had money to burn anyway.

The whole "it shouldn't function all, but they made it work somehow" part is what i don't really swallow. Paper money and credits only go so far, not to mention the problem of time and logistics.

If they have invested so much time and resources to selection and coordination as you imply, those are not really mercenary forces contracted by the Altess, it's a standing army composed of mostly foreigners, in the style of the French Foreign Legion or the Janissaries, whose services the Altess happens to offer through a number of intermediaries.

That's a more sensible and quite different animal - and considerably more dangerous too, as a number of these "mercenary armies" secretly (or not so secretly) financed by Altess patrons can also serve them as espionage and black ops cells in foreign territory.

[Nekira Sudacne]

It is wrong to paint all mercenaries as money grubbers who have no sense of duty beyond the next paycheck--while certainly true for many mercenaries, and certainly was a large problem in Italy, the Swiss mercenaries by contrast were heavily sought after in all of europe because they tended to be just as or slightly more reliable than regular units--especially in conscript-heavy armies that were common in the day. And this is to say nothing of the tradition of several german princes to simply rent out units of their regular army as mercenaries during peace--where the Hessen mercenaries and such come from. they are as good as national troops because they are national troops, just on loan--surely the altess can bribe some backward goverments into loaning some very well trained ships and crew?

Mercenaries are people, and like all people they have different types, and over centuries different companies form their own internal standards for duty and dicipline. there's nothing stopping a mercenary company from becoming as reliable as an elite national unit except their own will to do so--and the altess certainly have the time and money to get those rare breeds on their side.

People are people - individual cases does not speak for the whole. Not every mercenary company is composed of bastards, monsters, and rogues, nor is every voluntary or conscript in a national army a patriot or dutiful warrior, all extremes are possible in the forges of war, heroism and atrocity are possible to all.

But its what the business is about - risk is also a major part of a merc's work, corpses get no pay and has little to no reason to be attached to a nation over other beside the aformentioned paycheck. With time, planning and patience it might be possible to collect a number of merc units that are somewhat trustworthy but will it be big enough and reliable at the time you need them? We are talking of warring star-nations and collating a mercenary force sufficient for such a scale of conflict might be complicated even if you have the money, not to mention the logistics of coordinating and defining chains of command between hundreds to thousands of merc units while checking any holes you might have to plug in the logistics of it all.

It can work - and pretty well - if you are in the attacking side, specially when the area of actual conflict can't directly spill over in your territory and you have a number of political reasons to minimize your own folk direct involvment in the fighting, but it can get far less practical if you are the nation in the defensive.

I agree on all points as a general rule of thumb. my point is I wasn't talking about the feasability of it as a general rule of thumb, but the Altess specifically. and the Altess have been amassing their mercenary defenders for centuries, as the wealthiest people in the galaxy with lifespans in the centuries. It is in fact difficult to do--very difficult, but from my reading of things, the altess have already done it--spending the centuries and the trillions of credits required to do so. and yes, it was a very impractical decision.

However, the Altess routinely go with impractical decisions they make work by throwing more and more time and money at their problems. the fact this was an impractical way to build a reliable defensive fleet dosen't change the fact it's what they chose to do, and while they spent untold billions more than they had to doing it, there's no reason to think it'll be any less reliable than a regular national defensive force--just more expensive and many more years than was strictly necessary.

Good thing they had money to burn anyway.

The whole "it shouldn't function all, but they made it work somehow" part is what i don't really swallow. Paper money and credits only go so far, not to mention the problem of time and logistics.

If they have invested so much time and resources to selection and coordination as you imply, those are not really mercenary forces contracted by the Altess, it's a standing army composed of mostly foreigners, in the style of the French Foreign Legion or the Janissaries, whose services the Altess happens to offer through a number of intermediaries.

That's a more sensible and quite different animal - and considerably more dangerous too, as a number of these "mercenary armies" secretly (or not so secretly) financed by Altess patrons can also serve them as espionage and black ops cells in foreign territory.

at which point you are arguing terminology and not the actual status of the matter. if the altess want to call their forces mercenary, then that's what they are called, and if others underestimate their loyalty and ability due to that name, then that's probablly part of their plan too.

[SolCannibal]

The whole "it shouldn't function all, but they made it work somehow" part is what i don't really swallow. Paper money and credits only go so far, not to mention the problem of time and logistics.

If they have invested so much time and resources to selection and coordination as you imply, those are not really mercenary forces contracted by the Altess, it's a standing army composed of mostly foreigners, in the style of the French Foreign Legion or the Janissaries, whose services the Altess happens to offer through a number of intermediaries.

That's a more sensible and quite different animal - and considerably more dangerous too, as a number of these "mercenary armies" secretly (or not so secretly) financed by Altess patrons can also serve them as espionage and black ops cells in foreign territory.

at which point you are arguing terminology and not the actual status of the matter. if the altess want to call their forces mercenary, then that's what they are called, and if others underestimate their loyalty and ability due to that name, then that's probablly part of their plan too.

Actually, when what you describe is a mercenary army at best in name only, it does become a matter of status that goes far beyond terminology. What you describe is closer the French Foreign Legion or ghurkas than mercenary forces one usually sees in either news, history or literature or the "money gets me troops" implication of previous posters earlier in the topic.

Not to mention that does not seem to be the arrangement implied in Fleet of the Three Galaxies, where the Altess is described as mainly reliant in the Armoria and its robot-drone armies (what brings another set of problems to the table but whatever, not the topic) since their leave from the CCW, something about to catastrophically change soon according to the book.

Simply put the "they have the money and had the time to prune it" scenario you describe, while pretty interesting (and with lots of story potential on its own in and out of mercenary games), doesn't fit setting info at all. Sometimes it also looks like people exagerate the Altess capacity to outbuy or outgambit any and all powers around them, while ignoring that the Altess' own egos, penchant for deceit & intrigue and vanity could just as easily turn against them.

PS: Am i the only one that finds it funny that the Golgans would call their fleet Argosy, ain't the term usually reserved for merchant fleets? Gives it all a "marauding viking trader/conquistador" vibe that can seen funny when contrasted with their usual "Soviet breakdown/blustering North Korea" airs in the books.

[The Beast]

Obviously the Golgans would win this battle. After all, Shaw's entire fleet was sunk by a single shark because it wasn't big enough.