Battle tactics used againt the Mechinoid Motherships

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Rallan
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Re: Battle tactics used againt the Mechinoid Motherships

Unread post by Rallan »

Laux the Ogre wrote:That's why the Mars in my campaign is clean of bugs.


It should also be why the moons of all four gas giants in your games have got miners and prospectors on them. If travelling a few months each way just to mine the asteroid belt was economically viable, then you can bet your ass that travelling a week or two each way to mine the fabulous wealth of those moons is ridiculously lucrative.

And if you want to get a bit more epic to make up for the fact that even Pluto isn't a remote and distant frontier, it should be why prospectors and adventurers are out beyond the Kuiper Belt and into the Oort Cloud, scrounging among impossibly remote chunks of rock in interstellar space to try and find legendary pre-Flash research vessels (and possibly even old military bases, hauled out there to be completely undetectable and provide the ultimate second-strike capability).
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Re: Battle tactics used againt the Mechinoid Motherships

Unread post by Rallan »

Laux the Ogre wrote:
Rallan wrote:
Laux the Ogre wrote:That's why the Mars in my campaign is clean of bugs.


It should also be why the moons of all four gas giants in your games have got miners and prospectors on them. If travelling a few months each way just to mine the asteroid belt was economically viable, then you can bet your ass that travelling a week or two each way to mine the fabulous wealth of those moons is ridiculously lucrative.

And if you want to get a bit more epic to make up for the fact that even Pluto isn't a remote and distant frontier, it should be why prospectors and adventurers are out beyond the Kuiper Belt and into the Oort Cloud, scrounging among impossibly remote chunks of rock in interstellar space to try and find legendary pre-Flash research vessels (and possibly even old military bases, hauled out there to be completely undetectable and provide the ultimate second-strike capability).

The moons of all four gas giants have colonies on them in my campaign. The Oort Cloud is the main source of exploration-style adventures, while the Asteroid Belt tends to be where most long-voyages start from. Currently I've got the PCs looking for Voyager II.


Just as long as you've actually got something out there to explore. A bunch of really really really remote lumps of rock and ice aren't gonna be too exciting to anyone except astronomers, since the rest of the solar system already has an abundance of lumps of rock and ice that are way easier to find.

So what you need is reason to go out there. Pre-Flash research vessels and weapon stations. Relics of extra-terrestrial exploration. Rumours of hidden pirate bases where the outlaw scum of the solar system can get repairs and trade their wares safe from the long arm of the law. That sorta crap.

Otherwise the Oort Cloud is "Ooh an icy rock that looks EXACTLY LIKE ONE I COULD'VE SEEN IN THE ASTEROID BELT INSTEAD" :)
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Re: Battle tactics used againt the Mechinoid Motherships

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Rhomphaia wrote:
Rallan wrote:Just as long as you've actually got something out there to explore. A bunch of really really really remote lumps of rock and ice aren't gonna be too exciting to anyone except astronomers, since the rest of the solar system already has an abundance of lumps of rock and ice that are way easier to find.

So what you need is reason to go out there. Pre-Flash research vessels and weapon stations. Relics of extra-terrestrial exploration. Rumours of hidden pirate bases where the outlaw scum of the solar system can get repairs and trade their wares safe from the long arm of the law. That sorta crap.

Otherwise the Oort Cloud is "Ooh an icy rock that looks EXACTLY LIKE ONE I COULD'VE SEEN IN THE ASTEROID BELT INSTEAD" :)

Don't forget charting missions. Excursions to go scan, map and chart possible "loose" chunks in the cloud that might be easily pulled away by an errant gravity shift. This could lead into discovering something or merely blowing up a few particularly threatening chunks of ice and rock.

On a similar note, the mission could be the establishment of a base.



Oh, and don't forget the possible rumors of a Mechanoid (or Riathenor, or Toogarth, or Invid) invasion!
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Re: Battle tactics used againt the Mechinoid Motherships

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Rhomphaia wrote:
Rallan wrote:Just as long as you've actually got something out there to explore. A bunch of really really really remote lumps of rock and ice aren't gonna be too exciting to anyone except astronomers, since the rest of the solar system already has an abundance of lumps of rock and ice that are way easier to find.

So what you need is reason to go out there. Pre-Flash research vessels and weapon stations. Relics of extra-terrestrial exploration. Rumours of hidden pirate bases where the outlaw scum of the solar system can get repairs and trade their wares safe from the long arm of the law. That sorta crap.

Otherwise the Oort Cloud is "Ooh an icy rock that looks EXACTLY LIKE ONE I COULD'VE SEEN IN THE ASTEROID BELT INSTEAD" :)

Don't forget charting missions. Excursions to go scan, map and chart possible "loose" chunks in the cloud that might be easily pulled away by an errant gravity shift. This could lead into discovering something or merely blowing up a few particularly threatening chunks of ice and rock.

On a similar note, the mission could be the establishment of a base.


The Oort Cloud is four light years across, and the chaps in labcoats currently believe that all the asteroids and comets in it probably add up to about five times the mass of the Earth. I think it's safe to say that your chances of accidentally colliding with a chunk of ice and rock out there are so close to zero as makes no difference, and the only time any chunks of ice and rock out there are "threatening" would be if you're deliberately flying towards one at high speeds.

So with no natural danger and no native economic resources, I think we can safely say that the only reasons to go there are either to find stuff that other people put there, or to use as a hiding place.
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Re: Battle tactics used againt the Mechinoid Motherships

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Rhomphaia wrote:
Rallan wrote:
Rhomphaia wrote:
Rallan wrote:Just as long as you've actually got something out there to explore. A bunch of really really really remote lumps of rock and ice aren't gonna be too exciting to anyone except astronomers, since the rest of the solar system already has an abundance of lumps of rock and ice that are way easier to find.

So what you need is reason to go out there. Pre-Flash research vessels and weapon stations. Relics of extra-terrestrial exploration. Rumours of hidden pirate bases where the outlaw scum of the solar system can get repairs and trade their wares safe from the long arm of the law. That sorta crap.

Otherwise the Oort Cloud is "Ooh an icy rock that looks EXACTLY LIKE ONE I COULD'VE SEEN IN THE ASTEROID BELT INSTEAD" :)

Don't forget charting missions. Excursions to go scan, map and chart possible "loose" chunks in the cloud that might be easily pulled away by an errant gravity shift. This could lead into discovering something or merely blowing up a few particularly threatening chunks of ice and rock.

On a similar note, the mission could be the establishment of a base.


The Oort Cloud is four light years across, and the chaps in labcoats currently believe that all the asteroids and comets in it probably add up to about five times the mass of the Earth. I think it's safe to say that your chances of accidentally colliding with a chunk of ice and rock out there are so close to zero as makes no difference, and the only time any chunks of ice and rock out there are "threatening" would be if you're deliberately flying towards one at high speeds.

So with no natural danger and no native economic resources, I think we can safely say that the only reasons to go there are either to find stuff that other people put there, or to use as a hiding place.

That still doesn't discount that there may be threatening bodies out there and when technology permits manned missions, one priority would be to go out and map the big chunks, since it is known that comets come largely from the Oort Cloud.


What threatening bodies? The sheer insanely huge distances involved makes the odds virtually zero. Saying "Gee being hit by Oort Cloud comets would suck, I'd better map it to make sure none of them are on a collision course for our space station" is like saying "Gee being eaten by tigers would suck, I'd better ring every zoo and circus in America to make sure none have escaped". I mean sure, you could have a comet hit your space station, and you could be eaten by an escaped tiger the next time you're on holiday in New York City, but both of them are so unlikely that preparing for them is a complete waste of time.

Now if someone flew out there and strapped some Traction Drives to a lump of rock a few kilometres across, then you'd have a pretty damn credible threat. But random collisions with interstellar debris? Pfft.
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Re: Battle tactics used againt the Mechinoid Motherships

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Rhomphaia wrote:
Rallan wrote:What threatening bodies? The sheer insanely huge distances involved makes the odds virtually zero. Saying "Gee being hit by Oort Cloud comets would suck, I'd better map it to make sure none of them are on a collision course for our space station" is like saying "Gee being eaten by tigers would suck, I'd better ring every zoo and circus in America to make sure none have escaped". I mean sure, you could have a comet hit your space station, and you could be eaten by an escaped tiger the next time you're on holiday in New York City, but both of them are so unlikely that preparing for them is a complete waste of time.

Now if someone flew out there and strapped some Traction Drives to a lump of rock a few kilometres across, then you'd have a pretty damn credible threat.
But random collisions with interstellar debris? Pfft.

Condescension is the mark of the unimaginative btw.

The bolded is exactly why you'd map this crap as soon as you were able to make manned missions. If you can do it, then odds are someone else can either now or soon.


Okay let's break it down.

I go exploring in the Oort Cloud. At insanely great expense, and with a fair potential for danger, I'm sent out to catalogue large chunks of rock and ice. Because my employers think it's vitally important to waste heaps of money sending ships out to waste heaps of time combing through tens of trillions of cubic kilometres of empty space just to find the occasional lump of rock and ice that has nothing in it which can't already be extracted from the hyperabundance of lumps of rock and ice that are already in the solar system itself.

Despite the needle-in-a-haystack odds, I successfully find some largeish rocks. I catalogue their locations and their motion, so we can build up a database titled "Lumps Of Rock In Interstellar Space: A Spotters Guide That Nobody Except Astronomers Cares About". One of them is Comet A. It's about half a light year out from the sun, so it only took me a year of my life to reach via traction drive (don't ask me how many years of my life I wasted searching for it). I know now how big it is, what it's orbital path is, and exactly what mix of rock and ice it has. I also know exactly how worthless it is, because I can work out how many days it would've taken me to just fly to the moons of saturn, rent a bulldozer, and fill the back of a truck with that much rock and ice. Instead of, y'know, wasting a year coming out here.

Years pass. My farcically expensive, time-wasting, useless mission has been forgotten by almost everyone. And then some terrorists from Outcast Station look up Comet A in a database, waste a year of their life flying out to it (they're terrorists, they're dedicated enough to do this), attach some traction drives and a piloting computer to it, and set it up on a collision course for some diner in the asteroid belt that served them a really lousy coffee this one time.

Fortunately my hard work exploring and surveying Oort Cloud objects means we've got plenty of warning because...

... well actually it doesn't, because nobody is watching any of the objects that I found, on account of its pretty much impossible to detect cold dark lumps of rock against the cold dark backdrop of interstellar space when they're several light-months away. Funny how that works out.

So basically I wasted several years of my life surveying lumps of rock because some guy back home had the "brilliant" idea that if we catalogue all these comments, then even though we can't observe them at all to see if they're still where they're ought to be, we'll somehow magically be safe from just this sort of terrorist plot.

Seriously Rhomphaia, there are plenty of believable hooks a good GM could come up with to explain why dudes in MiO who've got traction-drive ships would travel beyond the solar system and start mucking about in the Kuiper Belt or the Oort Cloud. Clinging to a demonstrably lousy reason isn't particularly constructive or imaginative.
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Re: Battle tactics used againt the Mechinoid Motherships

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Laux the Ogre wrote:
Rallan wrote:Okay let's break it down.

I go exploring in the Oort Cloud. At insanely great expense, and with a fair potential for danger, I'm sent out to catalogue large chunks of rock and ice. Because my employers think it's vitally important to waste heaps of money sending ships out to waste heaps of time combing through tens of trillions of cubic kilometres of empty space just to find the occasional lump of rock and ice that has nothing in it which can't already be extracted from the hyperabundance of lumps of rock and ice that are already in the solar system itself.

Has any human being, in real life, every been to the Kuiper Belt? No? Well then how the heck do you know that the objects in it are even remotely similar to the bodies closer to the Sun? Oh yeah, you DON'T.


Dude, I'm making an assumption that's pretty solid here: that if the Oort Cloud was included in Mutants in Orbit, they'd have made it pretty much exactly the way astronomers say it is.

Throughout the book, Mutants in Orbit always strives to be factually accurate about space stuff. It gives the right distances for everything, it gets conditions on Mars and the Moon right, it cares about the effects of growing up in microgravity, it realises why Lagrange Points are important in an orbital society, it gives realistic interplanetary travel times, it generally goes the whole nine yards to get its astronomy correct and be the closest thing Palladium Books has ever done to a hard SF setting.

So if we want to include the Kuiper Belt and the Oort Cloud in a MiO campaign and we want to do it in the spirit of the setting, then the sensible approach is to stick with what the wonderful world of science thinks those places are like. You can fill your Kuiper Belt with so many comets that they're always bumping into each other if you want. You can fill it with solid gold christmas decorations the size of killer whales, hurtling through the void and waiting for a lucky prospector to find them. You could say there's a roof just past Pluto's orbit and if you accidentally crash through it you wind up in Heaven for all I care. But if you want something that looks like it belongs in MiO, your best bet is to fill the Kuiper Belt and the Oort Cloud with a whole lot of desolate empty space, the occasional barren icy crag, and a huge swag of not much else at all.

Rallan wrote:
Despite the needle-in-a-haystack odds, I successfully find some largeish rocks. I catalogue their locations and their motion, so we can build up a database titled "Lumps Of Rock In Interstellar Space: A Spotters Guide That Nobody Except Astronomers Cares About". One of them is Comet A. It's about half a light year out from the sun, so it only took me a year of my life to reach via traction drive (don't ask me how many years of my life I wasted searching for it). I know now how big it is, what it's orbital path is, and exactly what mix of rock and ice it has. I also know exactly how worthless it is, because I can work out how many days it would've taken me to just fly to the moons of saturn, rent a bulldozer, and fill the back of a truck with that much rock and ice. Instead of, y'know, wasting a year coming out here.

Would you say that the Apollo missions were a "waste of time"? Can't find anything on the Moon that you can't on Earth...


The Apollo missions were a pioneering feat of exploration and a proof of concept. They pushed back the boundaries of human achievement, both in the visceral "we were there and we did this" sense, and in the sense that a myriad of huge engineering problems had to be overcome to make any of it possible. Even if the Apollo astronauts had never done anything at all except play golf on the moon, the lessons learned from just getting them up there in the first place have enriched mankind immeasurably.

In a setting where spaceships with constant 1G acceleration are commercially available (and relatively commonplace if we're doing a version of MiO where they actually get used sensibly), a flight to the Oort Cloud is just a long trip. It's been done before. It will be done again. And even if you're the first person to ever lay eyes and set foot on a given Oort Cloud object, there's still very little sense of achievement, because it is one of trillions of similar objects out there. The first dude to set foot on a lump of rock out there is a bit of a pioneer. But not likely to be remembered as well as the first man on Mars, the first men on Mars' moons, the first man in the asteroid belt, the first man on a Jovian moon, the first men on each of the other Jovian moons, and so on through everything else in the solar system. You're going to find some insignificant specks of rock, and you're going to do it using proven technologies that needed little or no adaptation for your mission. And knowing the fickle hand of fame, you'll probably be remembered more as the first man to cross the heliopause than as the first man to stand on yet another rocky crag. And if you're part of the second trip to the Oort Cloud, or the third or the fourth or the fiftieth, you're a nobody. And you're also not even contributing very much to science. You're giving astronomers incremental little bits of knowledge so they can build a more precise picture of how many useless lumps of rock are out there, but you're not really getting much data on fundamental mysteries of the universe.

And really, at this stage I'm struggling to see why everyone's fixated on the Oort Cloud's utterly nonexistent natural bounty as a reason for going there. Hiding is a reason to go there. Finding other people who are hidden is a reason to go there. Derelict old shipwrecks that drifted out of the solar system is a reason to go there. A harebrained scheme to build a huge station more than a lightyear from Earth as the first step to eventual interstellar colonization is a reason to go there. A clandestine meeting of crime bosses aboard their sleek, heavily armed cruisers is a pretty stylish reason to go there. Sifting through the vacuum so you can find and catalogue the N millionth semi-identical asteroid is just the reason why a spacecrew will end up like the characters from Dark Star :)

Rallan wrote:
Years pass. My farcically expensive, time-wasting, useless mission has been forgotten by almost everyone. And then some terrorists from Outcast Station look up Comet A in a database, waste a year of their life flying out to it (they're terrorists, they're dedicated enough to do this), attach some traction drives and a piloting computer to it, and set it up on a collision course for some diner in the asteroid belt that served them a really lousy coffee this one time.

Fortunately my hard work exploring and surveying Oort Cloud objects means we've got plenty of warning because...

If you were smart you attached tracking-devices on the large ones you've found.


Why? Anyone who's going out there to use them for nefarious purposes will just sabotage the transmitters. You'll look 'em up in the handy catalogue that previous explorers have built up, vandalise the trackers on a bunch of rocks, and use one of them (or better yet, a rock that was never tagged in the first place) to build your secret pirate lair on or to use as your doomsday weapon. Or you could leave the beacons intact and just carve up the objects they're attached to. The distances involved are so great that it'll take weeks (or months if you're far enough out) before anyone even knows that a beacon has dropped out, and much, much longer for someone to go out there and check it out (by which stage the vandals could be anywhere).

And remember, if we're dealing with a traction drive doomsday weapon, a lot can happen in the six months it takes for us to notice that the beacon is dead. In the six-month timelag between when the asteroid is hijacked and when we notice that it was hijacked, the thing will have accelerated to half the speed of light and will now only be a quarter of a lightyear away from us.

Rallan wrote:
So basically I wasted several years of my life surveying lumps of rock because some guy back home had the "brilliant" idea that if we catalogue all these comments, then even though we can't observe them at all to see if they're still where they're ought to be, we'll somehow magically be safe from just this sort of terrorist plot.

Only because you and your employer didn't have the fore-sight to actually put something on the cometary-bodies that would allow you to track them.


No, only because I had the foresight to think about some sort of beacon system while I was writing that and decide that it's impractical because really, what's it going to tell you?
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Re: Battle tactics used againt the Mechinoid Motherships

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Congratulations to you all. This topic has been hijacked!
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Re: Battle tactics used againt the Mechinoid Motherships

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Beatmeclever wrote:Congratulations to you all. This topic has been hijacked!


In Soviet Russia, thread hijacks you.
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Re: Battle tactics used againt the Mechinoid Motherships

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The Beast wrote:
Beatmeclever wrote:Congratulations to you all. This topic has been hijacked!


In Soviet Russia, thread hijacks you.

Whatta Contry!
"The impossibility of the world lies in the fact that it has no equivalent anywhere;it cannot be exchanged for anything. The uncertainty of thought lies in the fact that it cannot be exchanged either for truth or for reality. Is it thought which tips the world over into uncertainty, or the other way around? This in itself is part of the uncertainty." - J. Baudrillard
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Re: Battle tactics used againt the Mechinoid Motherships

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Laux the Ogre wrote:
Beatmeclever wrote:
The Beast wrote:
Beatmeclever wrote:Congratulations to you all. This topic has been hijacked!


In Soviet Russia, thread hijacks you.

Whatta Contry!

I want Yakov Smirnoff statted out.


In Soviet Russia, Yakov Smirnoff wants you statted out.
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Re: Battle tactics used againt the Mechinoid Motherships

Unread post by Beatmeclever »

The Beast wrote:
Laux the Ogre wrote:
Beatmeclever wrote:
The Beast wrote:
Beatmeclever wrote:Congratulations to you all. This topic has been hijacked!


In Soviet Russia, thread hijacks you.

Whatta Contry!

I want Yakov Smirnoff statted out.


In Soviet Russia, Yakov Smirnoff wants you statted out.

I think we've just hit on the ultimate weapon against the Mechanoids!!!

In this corner of the galaxy, weighing in at 64x10E8 lbs the undefeated champions; the Mechanoid Empire! And in this corner weighing in at a mere 150lbs and out of the public eye for over 25 years... YAKOOOOOOOOOOOV SMIRNOOOOOOOOOOOOOFFF!

He would kill them with bad jokes and a horrible (but brain scarring) catch phrase. They might kill him, but for the next thousand years any time one of their number responded with either "In Soviet Russia, (insert part of prior comment here)'s you" or "Whatta Contry!" they would be killed by their fellows. As well, many would recognize that and whenever they even thought it, they would self-terminate.

It's perfect!!!
"The impossibility of the world lies in the fact that it has no equivalent anywhere;it cannot be exchanged for anything. The uncertainty of thought lies in the fact that it cannot be exchanged either for truth or for reality. Is it thought which tips the world over into uncertainty, or the other way around? This in itself is part of the uncertainty." - J. Baudrillard
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Re: Battle tactics used againt the Mechinoid Motherships

Unread post by The Beast »

Beatmeclever wrote:
The Beast wrote:
Laux the Ogre wrote:
Beatmeclever wrote:
The Beast wrote:
In Soviet Russia, thread hijacks you.

Whatta Contry!

I want Yakov Smirnoff statted out.


In Soviet Russia, Yakov Smirnoff wants you statted out.

I think we've just hit on the ultimate weapon against the Mechanoids!!!

In this corner of the galaxy, weighing in at 64x10E8 lbs the undefeated champions; the Mechanoid Empire! And in this corner weighing in at a mere 150lbs and out of the public eye for over 25 years... YAKOOOOOOOOOOOV SMIRNOOOOOOOOOOOOOFFF!

He would kill them with bad jokes and a horrible (but brain scarring) catch phrase. They might kill him, but for the next thousand years any time one of their number responded with either "In Soviet Russia, (insert part of prior comment here)'s you" or "Whatta Contry!" they would be killed by their fellows. As well, many would recognize that and whenever they even thought it, they would self-terminate.

It's perfect!!!


So what's your point?
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Re: Battle tactics used againt the Mechinoid Motherships

Unread post by batlchip »

bigbobsr6000 wrote:How about a group from a race of half-tinker gnomes and half-kinders turned loose on the mothership?


Kinders and tinker gnomes. :shock: That's as bad as putting Groo in the mothership.I'm sure it's against some sort of space law.
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Re: Battle tactics used againt the Mechinoid Motherships

Unread post by Sgt Anjay »

Sticking to Palladium, I think its about time someone pointed out to the Mechanoids that the Dominators are humanoid.

Branching out...

Call the characters from the Skylark series by Doc Smith.

Or the Lensmen.

Launch something like the Blight Countermeasure from the "Zones of Thought" universe (just make sure you can survive on a pre-industrial world first).
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Re: Battle tactics used againt the Mechinoid Motherships

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Send the Marduk fleet after them.
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Re: Battle tactics used againt the Mechinoid Motherships

Unread post by Capt. Meschievitz »

call in gillette think they could make a shaver that could erase them lol.....

Gillette the best mankind can get..


or just send in Hulk Hogan..... or Warrior...
after 20 odd years of the same character time has come......
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Re: Battle tactics used againt the Mechinoid Motherships

Unread post by Alrik Vas »

Bring the hammer of the Emperor, armed with both sacred flashlight and rape whistle, the holy ships that ferry them to and fro, as well as his mighty angels of death, and you have an exterminated xenos.
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Re: Battle tactics used againt the Mechinoid Motherships

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Vexxarr: "Rapacious genocidal cyborgs with robotic legions? Sploorfix, read them your blog."
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Re: Battle tactics used againt the Mechinoid Motherships

Unread post by taalismn »

Little Snuzzles wrote:Rift them or trick them into going to the Splicers world.

I'm sure the nanobots would find them delicious. :D



Not enough Human DNA left in them. Though NEXUS would still want to eliminate them as competition.
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For all the Empires and Kingdoms,
The Armies and Works that you hold Dear,
Are to him but the Playthings of the Moment,
To be turned over with the Flick of a Finger,
And the Turning of a Page"

--------Rudyard Kipling
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