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Unread postPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2017 11:33 pm
  

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Demon Lord Extraordinaire

Joined: Sun Apr 03, 2005 3:28 pm
Posts: 8809
Location: Apocrypha
Comment: Where's the money?
Jefffar wrote:
Just a reminder. Those wishing to discuss Robotech RPG Tabletop Tactics and its Kickstarter have an entire separate section of the forums to do so in. Please use that instead of sidetracking other threads.

Questions or concerns about forum administration practices should be discussed in the Megaverse phpBB Bugs/Wish List forum or directed to NMI, head board admin.


It's not derailing if you're explaining why you won't back this project.

Petty tyrants thrive when they have authority backed by vague regulations.


Last edited by The Beast on Sat Jan 28, 2017 7:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Unread postPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2017 11:46 pm
  

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Hero

Joined: Mon Apr 01, 2013 11:18 pm
Posts: 1355
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
The Beast wrote:
Jefffar wrote:
Just a reminder. Those wishing to discuss Robotech RPG Tabletop Tactics and its Kickstarter have an entire separate section of the forums to do so in. Please use that instead of sidetracking other threads.

Questions or concerns about forum administration practices should be discussed in the Megaverse phpBB Bugs/Wish List forum or directed to NMI, head board admin.


It's not derailing if you're explaining why you won't back this project.


Agreed. I daresay that 'why I chose the option in the poll to say that I won't be backing' is highly relevant.

And frankly, any reassurances that this is entirely Carmen's show is immediately put to the test in that this pending Kickstarter has been mentioned repeatedly for plenty of Newsletters (nothing he has any hand in, presumably?) and it has its own subforum months prior to launching, rather than months afterwards (like RRT, and I believe Savage Rifts is still in need of one).

The poll itself presents sharing that some people won't be backing.

It is fascinating that it is apparently against forum policy to explain why, even politely.


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Unread postPosted: Sat Jan 28, 2017 12:15 pm
  

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Palladium Books® Freelance Writer

Joined: Wed Mar 17, 2004 2:25 pm
Posts: 108
Location: Windsor ON Canada
Hi Forar and The Beast

I asked Kevin to mention it in the newsletter because if I don't drum up interest before the kickstarter, the kickstarter will surely fail and I can't afford that. I don't have a big advertising budget for this kickstarter. I cannot send out to tons of copies to youtube reviewers or post ads on gaming websites, so I need every bit of exposure I can get and asking Kevin to put it in the newsletter costs me nothing financially.

It got its own subforum because I asked for it. I really do want feedback and with its own subforum it is easier for people to give that feedback and it gives me a place to post vids and pics of the game. As far as why other topics don't get a subforum, I don't know why either. I am a friend of Kevin and Palladium but I'm not in on why they do everything they do.

I know I am going to get negative blow back on me because of Palladium's handling of the RTT so I want people to have time to see that I want to do my kickstarter differently. So there is no need to start other threads to bring up problems with the idea of a Rifts: Board Game, although I would ask you to be at least positive with your criticism. I will try to respond to it all if I can.

I also agree with The Beast that why you will not back is valid, but just bringing up the RTT continually is kind of pointless. I have no control over it and nothing to do with it. Simply put this is MY kickstarter not Palladium's and their failures or successes are not mine and I will have to succeed or fail on my own. Although I am going to sure as hell do my damnedest not to repeat their mistakes!

I have asked for them not to delete posts on that thread, but if they do or not, I have no control over it. But I will continue to ask them not to. The reason I am showing these on the Palladium boards first is to get the backing and responses of Rifts players before I make a Facebook page for the project. Even those of you negative on the idea are worth listening to as I can learn what NOT to do when I run my kickstarter, so as long as everyone is civil in the discussion I see no problems with people stating their objections or their support. Again just do it politely please.

I will also post this reply back in the original post for everyone to see and thanks for commenting.
Thanks Carmen :-D


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Unread postPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2017 7:27 pm
  

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Hero

Joined: Mon Apr 01, 2013 11:18 pm
Posts: 1355
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Hello Carmen,

Thank you for taking the time to reply to some of the concerns and criticism.

Regarding the KS needing advertising, I have no doubt that the wider the word is spread, the better, but you have to admit that it somewhat blurs the line regarding how much this is supposed to be Your project with You having bought the license from them, except... it's advertised in Their newsletter and on Their forums. Capitalizing on their fanbase is entirely sensible, but it also makes it harder to believe that this is almost entirely (one might say... 98%?) your show. I can accept that it is, I'm simply noting how things have unfolded in contrast to The Project That Shall Not Be Named.

I don't know if you read my comments before they were deleted originally, but I had nothing specific to say about RRT (less than you do here yourself), merely that my experience with their previous KS campaign soured me so much that even tangential projects such as this one were unappetizing. I also noted that this is a shame, because (admittedly a long time ago) I once owned almost everything Palladium Books had released up until that point, from shelves full of books from almost all of their product lines, to minis (yes, the old pewter ones) to the novels (ye gods were those bad) to piles of the CCG cards. Unfair as it may be to paint you/your company/your project with the same brush, I don't think this is unreasonable. The same advantages you receive with advertising in the newsletter and forum exposure also ties this closely enough are also detriments to those so inclined. This isn't just about Kickstarter, it's about an unfortunate (and growing) toxicity of the Palladium brand itself. They used to just be known for being very late in delivering books, and overpromising/underdelivering their yearly goals, now they are known for half finishing a ~1.5 million dollar crowdfunding campaign that is over 3 years late with no end in sight beyond vague reassurances that 2017 will totally be it!

Again, this might not be entirely fair to you, but it's not like you couldn't have 're-skinned' the game to move away from their IP (yes, admittedly losing some of the support you are garnering, but also building in a bit of deflection from criticism, and saving you whatever you paid for the IP, be it $1 or $10,000), you could have waited until Wave 2 delivered (if they're so certain it'll happen in 2017, this would only set you back 3 or 4 quarters, more time to refine and polish and make your campaign/business model air tight), etc.

And while you certainly have no control over these forums, at the same time, that is both a pro and a con. You gain access to a (rather enthusiastic) fanbase, but you lose control over what happens here.

Hell, it has been a week and I still have no idea which moderator was deleting my posts, nor why (they were not offensive or untrue or even vaguely heated or focused on RRT).

For good or ill, that is what you are contending with.

And now I'm going to copy/paste this into a folder so I can PM it to you later should this post also mysteriously vanish into the aether.


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Unread postPosted: Sat Feb 04, 2017 11:48 am
  

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Palladium Books® Freelance Writer

Joined: Wed Mar 17, 2004 2:25 pm
Posts: 108
Location: Windsor ON Canada
Here Forar let me respond your post.

Thank you for taking the time to reply to some of the concerns and criticism.
No problem, I can only show my difference from PB by being willing to respond and be open about the project.

Regarding the KS needing advertising, I have no doubt that the wider the word is spread, the better, but you have to admit that it somewhat blurs the line regarding how much this is supposed to be Your project with You having bought the license from them, except... it's advertised in Their newsletter and on Their forums. Capitalizing on their fanbase is entirely sensible, but it also makes it harder to believe that this is almost entirely (one might say... 98%?) your show. I can accept that it is, I'm simply noting how things have unfolded in contrast to The Project That Shall Not Be Named.
To this all I can say is what I have said, I need to get the word out and through the PB forum seemed to make the most sense as a first step. I have started my Facebook page as I had planned and want to move the majority of the conversation over to it, idealy making some distance between this project and Palladium.

I don't know if you read my comments before they were deleted originally, but I had nothing specific to say about RRT (less than you do here yourself), merely that my experience with their previous KS campaign soured me so much that even tangential projects such as this one were unappetizing. I also noted that this is a shame, because (admittedly a long time ago) I once owned almost everything Palladium Books had released up until that point, from shelves full of books from almost all of their product lines, to minis (yes, the old pewter ones) to the novels (ye gods were those bad) to piles of the CCG cards. Unfair as it may be to paint you/your company/your project with the same brush, I don't think this is unreasonable. The same advantages you receive with advertising in the newsletter and forum exposure also ties this closely enough are also detriments to those so inclined. This isn't just about Kickstarter, it's about an unfortunate (and growing) toxicity of the Palladium brand itself. They used to just be known for being very late in delivering books, and overpromising/underdelivering their yearly goals, now they are known for half finishing a ~1.5 million dollar crowdfunding campaign that is over 3 years late with no end in sight beyond vague reassurances that 2017 will totally be it!
Unfortunately, I can't say much to this as I believe its mostly true. I am also one of the backers of that campaign and wish they would sort out their problems with wave 2. But I have backed project on KS which I believed were dead in the water only to have them deliver years later, so I still have faith that they will deliver. As far as the back wash from it onto my campaign I am doing what I can to midigate it, that is the reason I am annoncing this KS so early, to get all the bad blood aired out.

Again, this might not be entirely fair to you, but it's not like you couldn't have 're-skinned' the game to move away from their IP (yes, admittedly losing some of the support you are garnering, but also building in a bit of deflection from criticism, and saving you whatever you paid for the IP, be it $1 or $10,000), you could have waited until Wave 2 delivered (if they're so certain it'll happen in 2017, this would only set you back 3 or 4 quarters, more time to refine and polish and make your campaign/business model air tight), etc.
No I could not have waited till, Wave 2 was resolved, I have a deadline I must me for the IP, but I might have been nice to do so.

And while you certainly have no control over these forums, at the same time, that is both a pro and a con. You gain access to a (rather enthusiastic) fanbase, but you lose control over what happens here.
I agree that is why I will be moving the conversation over to Facebook.

Hell, it has been a week and I still have no idea which moderator was deleting my posts, nor why (they were not offensive or untrue or even vaguely heated or focused on RRT).
Sorry but I don't know either, I don't even know who most of the moderators are.

For good or ill, that is what you are contending with.
I agree.

And now I'm going to copy/paste this into a folder so I can PM it to you later should this post also mysteriously vanish into the aether.
Not needed, but thanks. And please come over to the Facebook page to ask anything else you would like and as long as its not in the NDA I will answer.

Thanks Carmen


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