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Unread postPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2016 3:49 pm

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Due to "the character must have the initiative" (NS page 108) it appears only 1 person can use Lightning Form per melee round, no matter how many Thai Kickboxers are involved in combat...

Greased Lightning (MC 177) has no such requirement for initiative, so you could possible have a LF v GL or GL v GL situation.

Assuming that Chao Ta's Greased L. works the same as Thai Kickboxing's L. Form (delivering all APM in 1st attack) I'm left wondering how you would work this out in terms of combat order.

If it was just normal attacks, that would be simple, go in initiative order. But how does it work in the case of simultaneous attacks? SimAtt allows you to attack before your turn by forgoing defense, after all.

So let's picture Gustovich the kickboxer (naming him after the NS 107 drawing's artist) vs Long the kung-fuist (named after the MC 176 drawing's artist, I assume this guy is portraying someone using Wu Shu T'sung since the same picture is on page 111 of NS .. too bad no WP Kata for Chain or Sai...). Both are level 1 dedicated martial artists.

0) Gustovich wins initiative and ops to use lightning form while Long comes in 2nd in initiative and opts to used greased lightnig
1.1) Gustovich begins delivering all his APM in his first attack. He launches a basic punch...
1.2) Long could defense with an automatic parry, but opts to forgo that and instead launches a simultaneous attack. It is at -4 to strike (the penalty for using Greased)
1.3) assume both hit and roll damage
1.4) both can still presumably roll with impact because it doesn't mention needing to forgoe that to launch a simultaneous attack, or being prevented from using that when targeted with one
1.5) due to starting out with 2 body hardening techniques, not to mention anything he gets from a second Form which a kickboxer wouldn't get, the Chao Ta guy could probably get some AR from Chi Gung

It begins to sort of break down for me at this point on how to treat it though. A level 1 Chao Ta guy has 2 APM and a level 1 Thai Kickboxer has 3 APM. Since dedicated martial artists do not get skill programs, neither can select Boxing/Wrestling to enhance their abilities. This option does exist for a Chao Ta Kungfuist if selected via some other OCC, that just means they only get Chao Ta and no secondary form, which could be desirable.

Greased Lightning doubles APM from 2 to 4, so if they use Simultaneous Attack against all 3 of the Thai Kickboxer's attacks, that would still leave them with 1 additional attack per melee, which I figure they would use after. So between Gustovich the kickboxer and Long the kung fu guy, I think the order would go...


Where it gets tricky is... if instead of simultaneously attacking with a punch, what happens if Long instead simultaneously attacks using a body flip? Gustovich would have no defense against it, so while it might miss (-4 to strike) if it hit, would that interrupt the Lightning Kata?

In that case I figure the new order in their duel would be:

x representing the lost action from Gustovich suffering the body flip (in which case, this prevents Long from simultaneously attacking against it) meaning Long has to take it after Gustovich's turn instead of during it.

Using a body flip might fall outside the spirit of Greased Lightning since it ends with "punches and kicks", so I could see a GM possibly limiting it to those and not allowing flips, holds, knife hands, palm strikes or forearm strikes

If you were a Worldly Chao Ta who was able to select Wrestling to enhance it, the GM would also have to rule whether a crush/squeeze or block/tackle would be appropriate during Greased Lightning or not

Come to think of it... I guess since Athletics provides a tackle and is available as a secondary skill, this is a question we need to raise for Thai Kickboxing too.

I'm not sure how that works... if I simultaneously attacked someone tackling me on their 1st attack, would it's success mean the attack I lost is my 1st, nullifying the simultaneous attack? Or would that be losing my 2nd attack (preventing a simultaneous attack against his 2nd attack?) since I had already launched my 1st before the tackle hit?

A Chao Ta boxer (it sure is strange that Thai Kickboxers can't get the Boxing skill, oh well) has the benefit of more chances for a knockout (-4 to strike doesn't particularly matter when natural 20s are all or nothing) and low-damage knockouts are good if you're a nice guy who doesn't want to kill enemies.

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