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Unread postPosted: Thu May 10, 2018 12:27 am
  

D-Bee

Joined: Wed May 30, 2007 5:10 pm
Posts: 8
Snake Style Kung Fu is the Chi Mastery (Negative) martial art.

From the description:
Snake Style Kung Fu seeks to tap into the Yin power of darkness, building up forces of the negative Chi.
At the first sign of an opening, the master attacks with a single finger strike, channeling dark Chi into the enemy's body. This strike can leave the victim crippled, damaged or merely gasping for air. And a light stroke from the master can reverse all the damage.

Hand Attacks: One-Fingertip Attack (SPECIAL! Does absolutely no damage but serves to channel Chi attacks directly to Hit Points).

What is the this One-Finger-Tip Attack?
There is no Chi Ability that does damage directly to Hit Points.
There is an Atemi ability, Blood Flow Atemi or Chirigi, which is a D8 directly to Hit Points via fingertip attack or fore-knuckle attack, however, this isn't channeling Chi and Atemi is the realm of Tien Hsueh, not Chi Mastery. In fact, Snake Style Kung Fu NEVER gets Atemi abilities.

Can you please define this Secret Negative Chi Attack that delivers damage directly to Hit Points via Fingertip making contact?
It isn't One Finger Chi or Negative Empty Chi, because that is a ranged (30') telekinetic attack and does SDC damage, not Hit Point damage.



While were at it, can you please address Tien Hsueh and Dim Mak?
Tien Hsueh is the Atemi Mastery martial art.

N&SS UnRevised states Tien Hsueh has Dim Mak as special attack. Doesn't list it as one of the initial powers available or list it in the level advancement. But in the description of Dim Mak, it states that Tien Hsueh gets it at level 1. However states Death Blow on a Natural 20 at 5th Level.

N&SS Revised regarding Tien Hsueh states: Level 2 Dim Mak (Death Blow). Then never gives a listing for Death Blow in further advancement. This implies that Dim Mak is a death blow.

Mystic China's version of Tien Hsueh states: Long Distance Dim Mak available to choose as a starting power. Advancement states Dim Mak at 9th level on an 18 or better. I don't believe that it was meant to be Critical at 18 or better, since there is already listings for Critical from Behind. So I would believe that it would be Death Blow at 18 or better since there is no mention of Death Blow in the advancement.

So, if Dim Mak is Death Blow, then it can be used as an instantaneous kill (like Death Blow), or as a long and wasting death, dependent upon the Tien Hsueh Master's choice.
If Dim Mak isn't Death Blow and is just a painfully slow way to kill a target; then Tien Hsueh needs to better define its Death Blow (give it earlier than 5th level on a natural 20), considering Tae Kwon Do, Leopard Style Kung Fu, and Praying Mantis Style Kung Fu get Death Blow at 1st level on a Natural 20 and it improves to a 19-20 by 12th level or sooner.

My suggestion would be to treat this as an Atemi ability that can be powered like a Chi Mastery; that the single finger strike and cause the stop of chi flow, that the individual no longer heals, and eventually dies. However, if the Tien Hsueh Master has taken some Chi Mastery abilities, I would say that the Dim Mak can also be delivered with some negative chi to reduce the target's chi to zero, and possibly do damage directly to hit points to kill him instantaneously.


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Unread postPosted: Thu May 10, 2018 5:08 pm
  

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Palladin

Joined: Sat Jul 14, 2007 9:40 pm
Posts: 10131
Comment: Palladium Books Canon is set solely by Kevin Siembieda, either in person, or by his approval of published material.
okay here is how I understand this
1) Dim Mak, while it is a death blow is not the maneuver Death Blow. As such you do not get an automatic Dim Mak and those with Death Blow do not have the attack. Chalk it up to bad editing but they seem to be totally different.

2) as I understand One Finger attack... it is a special unique attack that lets you basically make a special negative chi attack. You hit and then spend X amount of negative Chi. Each point you spend does 1:1 damage to their hit points. YES this is hideously deadly. Besides being rather draining it helps explain why Snake Style is feared!

3) The regular Death Blow maneuver that people get is simply the "does double damage direct to HP" version not a Dim Mak

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The rules are not a bludgeon with which to hammer a character into a game. They are a guide to how a group of friends can get together to weave a collective story that entertains everyone involved. We forget that at our peril.

Edmund Burke wrote:
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."


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Unread postPosted: Mon May 14, 2018 5:52 pm
  

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Knight

Joined: Sun Dec 27, 2015 1:13 pm
Posts: 3525
I always imagined it as even stronger than what eliakon has hypothesized. Page 102:
    Does absolutely no damage, but serves to channel for Chi attacks directly to Hit Points

This means the "poke" itself doesn't actually do damage (see

Snake Style has the option of selecting a chi mastery power at 1st level. Notice on page 120 the conveniently named "One Finger Chi".

You roll d20+3 (no other bonuses) with a 30 feet range, inflict 3 SDC per 1 chi spent. Cannot be parried or dodged.

I believe the fingertip attack changes this to be a normal HTH stike roll (so you could add PP bonuses, for example) but it CAN be parried or dodged (because it's a physical attack) and it inflicts 3 HP per chi spent when used this way.


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Unread postPosted: Sat Jul 28, 2018 11:06 pm
  

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Monk

Joined: Sun Oct 19, 2003 7:22 pm
Posts: 21503
Location: 2nd Degree Black Belt of Post Fu
Comment: The Munchkin Fairy
cms6317 wrote:
Hand Attacks: One-Fingertip Attack (SPECIAL! Does absolutely no damage but serves to channel Chi attacks directly to Hit Points).


That is your answer right there. the "SPECIAL!" Means that is has nothing to do with the Chi powers later, it IS a Chi power unto itself, and works exactly as indicated. It lets you roll an attack, and if it hits, you channel your negative Chi into HP damage 1:1 directly. That's it. That's the special move of the style. You can't learn it unless you learn Snake Style.

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Unread postPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2018 5:03 pm
  

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Knight

Joined: Sun Dec 27, 2015 1:13 pm
Posts: 3525
Um, no. It is a "hand attack" not a "chi attack". It "serves to channel Chi attacks". Which means it is NOT a Chi power unto itself, and it has everything to do with the Chi powers later.

Instead of 1 chi = 3 SDC damage you get 1 chi = 3 HP damage.


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Unread postPosted: Fri Aug 17, 2018 11:31 pm
  

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Monk

Joined: Sun Oct 19, 2003 7:22 pm
Posts: 21503
Location: 2nd Degree Black Belt of Post Fu
Comment: The Munchkin Fairy
Axelmania wrote:
Um, no. It is a "hand attack" not a "chi attack". It "serves to channel Chi attacks". Which means it is NOT a Chi power unto itself, and it has everything to do with the Chi powers later.

Instead of 1 chi = 3 SDC damage you get 1 chi = 3 HP damage.


Except A: One finger chi is explictly a ranged attack that specifically does not involve touching the target, and so cannot be a discriptor for a hand to hand attack. And B: The Snake Style channels damage "Directly to hit points" and One Finger Chi does SDC and does not go to hit points.

So both the effect and the discriptors show clearly that, dispite sharing part of a name, they are in fact two unrelated powers. Snake Style has a One-Finger-Tip hand attack that channels negative chi directly to HP, and there is also a one-finger-Chi attack that is a kind of ranged telekenetic blow that does SDC damage.

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Unread postPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2018 1:17 am
  

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Explorer

Joined: Sun Jan 04, 2015 2:16 pm
Posts: 105
I agree with axelmania. The way I read it, this gives the snake master incentive to close the distance and deliver the one finger chi attack directly in order to switch its effect to a hit point effect.

Neither death blow nor dim mak actually kill the target outright. Deathblow simply doubles the damage and deals it directly to hit points. An unparried or dodged dim mak also does damage directly to hit points, while a dim mak that is not successfully rolled doesnt even blow away a single point of the targets positive chi. It simply eliminates the targets ability to regenerate chi, and when it reaches zero, results in the character being unable to heal. Seeing as how the target can still heal just fine as long as he's still got positive chi, unless the target is immediately drained of his positive chi by other means, a character might not discover he's been dim makked for a long long time.

I think even a non-snake practitioner's ability to pump chi into damaging sdc attacks with one finger, brutal atemi attacks like bloodflow and withering flesh, and even just plain old fashioned knockouts are far superior tactics to deathblows in the grand scheme of things.

If the snake's particular one fingertip chi attack has any advantage its that a non ranged chi attack direct to hit points *might* bypass armor? Even that doesnt sound right though. At my table I'd have even that damage set back to sdc damage applied to the armor.


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Unread postPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2018 8:33 pm
  

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Palladin

Joined: Sat Jul 14, 2007 9:40 pm
Posts: 10131
Comment: Palladium Books Canon is set solely by Kevin Siembieda, either in person, or by his approval of published material.
The advantage is that while a martial artist can easily have 100s of SDC...
...they usually will only have a few dozen HP at most. Many will have less than 30 (10 Chi)
And you make your coma death saves when you run out of HP.
And don't forget this is NOT a normal Chi attack so you can't spend your own Chi to block it as that rule only applies to direct Chi combat.
So sure you can still have every one of your SDC, but if I just blew away all of your HP...well better hope you have jam in your pockets 'cause your toast.
There is a reason that "direct to HP" attacks are super rare, and are considered super deadly... because they are.

This attack is absurdly dangerous. A Snake Style adept can easily have a huge Chi pool. Thus pumping in 10-20 Chi or so is both quite doable and its basically "save or die" time. So yeah, the attack can already be used to OHK virtually anyone in the N&SS world as it is, never mind if you make it even more dangerous.

_________________
The rules are not a bludgeon with which to hammer a character into a game. They are a guide to how a group of friends can get together to weave a collective story that entertains everyone involved. We forget that at our peril.

Edmund Burke wrote:
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."


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