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Unread postPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 7:51 pm
  

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Champion

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Page 122
Quote:
if the Strike, with bonuses, is 20 or better, then the result will be a Critical Strike (double damage).


But let's say, I am DRUNK, from page 24:
Quote:
When totally drunk, the following penalties apply .. —2 to strike, parry and dodge.


If I rolled a natural 20 with no bonuses, 20+0 is 20 or better.
If I rolled a natural 19 with +1 to strike, 19+1 is 20 or better.

OLOSOHOK only says "with bonuses" not "with modifiers".

Should we take this to mean that penalties do not matter, and that even if this would normally result in a modified 18 total, that it still works?

It seems weird that penalties would not apply, even if RAW might imply that.


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Unread postPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 9:16 pm
  

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Monk

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Expand OLOSOHOK.

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Unread postPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 9:20 pm
  

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Champion

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One Life One Shot One Hit One Kill.

I supposed 1L1S1H1K would also work. I think Os look better.


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Unread postPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 9:48 pm
  

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Gm's might rule that the char could not initiate that MA-Tech while drunk due to the rules about how being drunk effects chi usage.

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Q's on this board need canon answers first for the question that was asked. Then you can post your own house rules listed as your house rules.
I say what the classes ARE even if the books mislabel them, so get over it.

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Unread postPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 3:21 am
  

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Champion

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Page 25 mentions intoxication drops chi to 1d6, not that you can't use it anymore.

OLOSOHOK is a Martial Arts Technique, I don't believe that category of abilities has any chi requirements.

Drunkness is also merely an example I'm using for a possible strike penalty. A better example might be the -3 to strike moving targets on page 134, since OLOSOHOK can work with guns.


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Unread postPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 1:31 pm
  

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Demon Lord Extraordinaire

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Comment: Where's the money?
Seeing how you're talking about a specific MA technique, yes you do factor in penalties in this specific instance, unless a Nat 20 is rolled.


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Unread postPosted: Mon Jan 15, 2018 2:58 am
  

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What is your interpretation based on? It only says "if the Strike, with bonuses, is 20 or better"

It doesn't say "the strike, with bonuses and penalties" or "the strike, with modifers". Do you view penalties as bonuses with negative numbers?

Also where are you getting this bit about penalties not applying on a natural 20?


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Unread postPosted: Mon Jan 15, 2018 2:25 pm
  

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drewkitty ~..~ wrote:
Gm's might rule that the char could not initiate that MA-Tech while drunk due to the rules about how being drunk effects chi usage.

Axelmania wrote:
Page 25 mentions intoxication drops chi to 1d6, not that you can't use it anymore.
...snip

Hello, what I presented was presented as .......What GM's might do.... comment. I don't know why you didn't understand it as I presented it.

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Q's on this board need canon answers first for the question that was asked. Then you can post your own house rules listed as your house rules.
I say what the classes ARE even if the books mislabel them, so get over it.

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My Artwork


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Unread postPosted: Mon Jan 15, 2018 3:22 pm
  

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Comment: Where's the money?
Axelmania wrote:
What is your interpretation based on? It only says "if the Strike, with bonuses, is 20 or better"

It doesn't say "the strike, with bonuses and penalties" or "the strike, with modifers". Do you view penalties as bonuses with negative numbers?

Also where are you getting this bit about penalties not applying on a natural 20?


My interpretation is based off of that thing between my ears. If a roll says you factor in bonuses, then you obviously factor in penalties as well.

As for the Nat 20, as others have already pointed out to you, it has its own rule: A natural 20 can only be countered by another natural 20. Bonuses and penalties are irrelevant due to that rule.


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Unread postPosted: Mon Jan 15, 2018 6:17 pm
  

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Palladin

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Comment: Palladium Books Canon is set solely by Kevin Siembieda, either in person, or by his approval of published material.
Axelmania wrote:
What is your interpretation based on? It only says "if the Strike, with bonuses, is 20 or better"

It doesn't say "the strike, with bonuses and penalties" or "the strike, with modifers". Do you view penalties as bonuses with negative numbers?

Also where are you getting this bit about penalties not applying on a natural 20?

No many how many threads you start on this topic (This is what? The third in a week?)
The answers you will get from people are going to be the same.
You wont be able to forum shop around until you can find a sympathetic group that will help you with your answer and give you the reply that you seem to be desiring.
As such it appears that based on all three threads that the general consensus is that a n20 is going to hit, even if there are penalties, because luck is luck is luck.

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Edmund Burke wrote:
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."


It's RIFTS Earth; the impossible happens before breakfast, twice on Tuesdays. And if it hasn't, then the GM hasn't tried hard enough and the players are lazy. :D -DhAkael

Knowledge is Power, Power Corrupts, Study Hard


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Unread postPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2018 1:30 am
  

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Champion

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Please stop arguing a straw man. I am not asking whether or not OLOSHOHOK will hit, but whether or not it's hit becomes a critical strike.

Beast I agree with you in spirit that penalties ought to be applied everywhere. Even places without bonuses. I don't think we explicitly have to be told to apply them because in glossaries, penalties are said to apply to rolls.

That said, I have never seen the natural 20 always-critical and always-hit rules to mean a lack of bonuses.

In the case of a natural 20 on an OLOSOHOK, you could have a double-critical, which would be x3.


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Unread postPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2018 8:03 pm
  

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Monk

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Axelmania wrote:
Please stop arguing a straw man. I am not asking whether or not OLOSHOHOK will hit, but whether or not it's hit becomes a critical strike.

.

Then you should of asked this question ....Clearly.... in the OP. And not dancing around the issue.

The answer is Exactly like the Text says.
However, if the total strike roll is less then 20...no crit.
H2H & MAF bonuses are not included.

As a GM I might limit the Strike bonuses counted for this MAT to only those acquired with/through this MAT.

_________________
Q's on this board need canon answers first for the question that was asked. Then you can post your own house rules listed as your house rules.
I say what the classes ARE even if the books mislabel them, so get over it.

Mostly I write out exactly what I mean, then sometimes get even more finicky.

My Artwork


Last edited by drewkitty ~..~ on Wed Jan 17, 2018 12:01 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Unread postPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2018 9:17 pm
  

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Palladin

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Comment: Palladium Books Canon is set solely by Kevin Siembieda, either in person, or by his approval of published material.
Axelmania wrote:
Please stop arguing a straw man. I am not asking whether or not OLOSHOHOK will hit, but whether or not it's hit becomes a critical strike.

Beast I agree with you in spirit that penalties ought to be applied everywhere. Even places without bonuses. I don't think we explicitly have to be told to apply them because in glossaries, penalties are said to apply to rolls.

That said, I have never seen the natural 20 always-critical and always-hit rules to mean a lack of bonuses.

In the case of a natural 20 on an OLOSOHOK, you could have a double-critical, which would be x3.

The answer is no different than the other two forums. It is, in fact even MORE obvious here.
OLOSOHOK only crits on a 19-20
If you get a 19-10 it is a critical. La la la
If you get a n20 that is a double damage hit la la la
thus with this attack and an20 it is x3
the whole penalties to n20 thing though has been discussed to death in the other two forums and there is no need to attempt to try and start that up again here. The answers to that question are not going to change.

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Edmund Burke wrote:
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."


It's RIFTS Earth; the impossible happens before breakfast, twice on Tuesdays. And if it hasn't, then the GM hasn't tried hard enough and the players are lazy. :D -DhAkael

Knowledge is Power, Power Corrupts, Study Hard


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Unread postPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2018 10:15 pm
  

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Demon Lord Extraordinaire

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Comment: Where's the money?
drewkitty ~..~ wrote:
Axelmania wrote:
Please stop arguing a straw man. I am not asking whether or not OLOSHOHOK will hit, but whether or not it's hit becomes a critical strike.

.

Then you should of asked this question ....Clearly.... in the OP. And not dancing around the issue.

The answer is No.
Crit. strikes with ranged weapons only occure with a Nat 20 roll to strike.


Actually this power would allow any weapon to inflict double damage if the total result is 20 or higher. So whether it's a sword, crossbow, M16, or plasma-cartridge gun as long as the roll is high enough it'll inflict double damage. However it doesn't work for punches, kicks, bites, tail swipes, and similar attacks.

On a side note will I could see it also being used with handheld weapons for mecha units (ie: Boom gun, SAMAS railgun, ect) I doubt the author had weapon systems in mind when he wrote this power up and therefore I wouldn't allow it to be used with those systems in a game I ran.


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Unread postPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 12:10 am
  

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Monk

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drewkitty ~..~ wrote:
Then you should of asked this question ....Clearly.... in the OP. And not dancing around the issue.

The answer is Exactly like the Text says.
However, if the total strike roll is less then 20...no crit.
H2H & MAF bonuses are not included.

As a GM I might limit the Strike bonuses counted for this MAT to only those acquired with/through this MAT.

Would a nat 20 make it a double crit? Maybe, depending on how your GM ruled how the MAT works. If ruled it raised the nat die roll then no, if ruled it is just another bonus with special rules then yes. Since this is not covered by the text it would be a house rule ether way.

_________________
Q's on this board need canon answers first for the question that was asked. Then you can post your own house rules listed as your house rules.
I say what the classes ARE even if the books mislabel them, so get over it.

Mostly I write out exactly what I mean, then sometimes get even more finicky.

My Artwork


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Unread postPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 2:25 pm
  

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Palladin

Joined: Sat Jul 14, 2007 9:40 pm
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Comment: Palladium Books Canon is set solely by Kevin Siembieda, either in person, or by his approval of published material.
The Beast wrote:
drewkitty ~..~ wrote:
Axelmania wrote:
Please stop arguing a straw man. I am not asking whether or not OLOSHOHOK will hit, but whether or not it's hit becomes a critical strike.

.

Then you should of asked this question ....Clearly.... in the OP. And not dancing around the issue.

The answer is No.
Crit. strikes with ranged weapons only occure with a Nat 20 roll to strike.


Actually this power would allow any weapon to inflict double damage if the total result is 20 or higher. So whether it's a sword, crossbow, M16, or plasma-cartridge gun as long as the roll is high enough it'll inflict double damage. However it doesn't work for punches, kicks, bites, tail swipes, and similar attacks.

On a side note will I could see it also being used with handheld weapons for mecha units (ie: Boom gun, SAMAS railgun, ect) I doubt the author had weapon systems in mind when he wrote this power up and therefore I wouldn't allow it to be used with those systems in a game I ran.

Specially it can be used with any Martial Art Form you possess.
Thus any weapon you have a Kata for you can use it with.
If you can get Weapon Kata Heavy Energy, then go right ahead and use it with a railgun or plasma gun
If you can get Weapon Kata Weapon Systems approved by your GM then go for if it, its SAMAS time.
But you need to have a MAF to use it, and MAFs need a Kata to use weapons.
The only possible[ exception I can see is if you were someone who can take 2 full MAFs and you take a MAF for the One Hit bla bla and as your other MAF you take one of the quickie MAFs known as the N&SS versions of the H2H styles.
Then it is plausible that your GM might allow you to use the Techniques with your H2H style. Maybe then again maybe not. My Magic 8-Ball is a bit hazy on this one you will have to consult your personal GM to find out the actual ruling that applies at that table for that game.

_________________
Edmund Burke wrote:
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."


It's RIFTS Earth; the impossible happens before breakfast, twice on Tuesdays. And if it hasn't, then the GM hasn't tried hard enough and the players are lazy. :D -DhAkael

Knowledge is Power, Power Corrupts, Study Hard


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