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Unread postPosted: Tue Jun 13, 2017 12:38 am
  

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Howdy Folks

I've been thumbing through my old BTS 1st edition and it dawned on me. Beyond The Supernatural has a direct connection to the Rifts Universe because of Victor Lazlo if I am not mistaken. So if this is the case, then doesn't the world of Beyond The Supernatural has more of a direct link and/or connection to Rifts than any other game in Palladium's repertoire? So how come Beyond The Supernatural got shafted after 2nd edition when it is technically so important to Rifts? I am crazy or does not that makes sense, doesn't it?

I think that with this connection to the world of RIFTs distant past that should really promote Beyond the Supernatural more than some game about zombies (which is a passing fad in my opinion) or more sourcebooks about power armor and ray guns. Beyond the Supernatural is also a key connector to the Palladium Fantasy World RPG simply because the 1st edition Monsters & Animals book was designed with both games in mind, so it would come to reason that the world of Beyond the Supernatural is the world that links all other worlds in theory. If this does not make sense then I must be crazy. :-P

What do you think?

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Unread postPosted: Tue Jun 13, 2017 1:14 am
  

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Comment: Palladium Books Canon is set solely by Kevin Siembieda, either in person, or by his approval of published material.
Holister wrote:
Howdy Folks

I've been thumbing through my old BTS 1st edition and it dawned on me. Beyond The Supernatural has a direct connection to the Rifts Universe because of Victor Lazlo if I am not mistaken. So if this is the case, then doesn't the world of Beyond The Supernatural has more of a direct link and/or connection to Rifts than any other game in Palladium's repertoire? So how come Beyond The Supernatural got shafted after 2nd edition when it is technically so important to Rifts? I am crazy or does not that makes sense, doesn't it?

I think that with this connection to the world of RIFTs distant past that should really promote Beyond the Supernatural more than some game about zombies (which is a passing fad in my opinion) or more sourcebooks about power armor and ray guns. Beyond the Supernatural is also a key connector to the Palladium Fantasy World RPG simply because the 1st edition Monsters & Animals book was designed with both games in mind, so it would come to reason that the world of Beyond the Supernatural is the world that links all other worlds in theory. If this does not make sense then I must be crazy. :-P

What do you think?

Yes, the BTS world is the past of Rifts (Or at least a potential past)
But there is a reason that there are no sourcebooks for it.
No one is writing them.
No, really. It is really that simple.
Dead Reign has a cadre of enthusiastic freelancers who are writing and submitting manuscripts.
And there is the fact that those books are selling well.
And there are a lot of articles for Heroes Unlimited and Palladium Fantasy, Rifts, and even stuff for Splicers and After the Bomb, and Dead Reign and Nightbane written and submitted to the Rifter.
But not very much is getting submitted for the BTS line.
What is not written doesn't get published.

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Unread postPosted: Tue Jun 13, 2017 1:26 pm
  

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Well maybe they should get off their duffs and start writing some books. :)

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Unread postPosted: Tue Jun 13, 2017 4:41 pm
  

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Comment: "Deep into that darkness peering, long I stood there... wondering, fearing, doubting" - Edgar Allen Poe
I always saw RIFTS earth as one possible future for BTS earth.

And while they may be linked, that link is connected by a thin wire at best due to the low P.P.E. Levels of BTS earth.

One of the articles I intend to finish at get in the Rifter or a source book someday will go into about the fact that the low levels make BTS earth a difficult place to get to from other worlds (which is what has kept the minion war out of it) and even then, such a magically primitive and tasteless place wouldn't really interest potential dimensional travelers to begin with (save for the beings that a visiting like Dimensional Ghouls for the sole purpose of feeding).

That being said, the before mentioned article is about a small minion war event/skirmish happening on BTS earth. :)

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Unread postPosted: Tue Jun 13, 2017 6:16 pm
  

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Comment: Palladium Books Canon is set solely by Kevin Siembieda, either in person, or by his approval of published material.
Holister wrote:
Well maybe they should get off their duffs and start writing some books. :)

If you want it so badly YOU write it.
No seriously.
I hate it when people complain that the freelancers are not writing what they want them to write. They are freelancers people.
They only get paid if the manuscript that they spend thousands of hours writing gets accepted.
Which means that they are going to write things that
1) they think will sell
2) that interest them
Which means that if there is no apparent market for BTS, and no BTS players writing stuff. Guess What?
No BTS stuff.

_________________
The rules are not a bludgeon with which to hammer a character into a game. They are a guide to how a group of friends can get together to weave a collective story that entertains everyone involved. We forget that at our peril.

Edmund Burke wrote:
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."


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Unread postPosted: Tue Jun 13, 2017 6:47 pm
  

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So there is no regular, employed staff at Palladium doing their jobs? Just a bunch of freelance mercs doing whatever they want. That just seems like a bad business model to me. So I will clarify things for you...I was addressing the actual PALLADIUM STAFF to perhaps fulfill their obligations to all of their fanbase and not just the freelancers who continually just submit what they want to see done.

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Do you want to be a puddle or an ocean?
Why be a puddle when you get stepped in and in time dried up and forgotten.
When an ocean can destroy an entire city.


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Unread postPosted: Tue Jun 13, 2017 9:29 pm
  

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Kevin has always maintained that he has personally wanted to write more for BTS. Unfortunately the timing of events around the launch of BTS2 put him in a position where he had to focus on projects that could be more immediately lucrative to keep the company afloat.

Since then, various major other items (Relaunch of Robotech, Dead Reign, Minion Wars, expansion of PDF library, various crowdfunding projects Savage Rifts and similar seem to have occupied much of Kevin's​ attention (along with his small pool of staff). So the only things really getting published outside of that list are projects that freelancers have pushed forwards.

Basically, the days of plentiful Palladium products being produced every year ended the same time as BTS2 launched. Without that sort of rythmn, it's hard to get BTS j to the release schedule.

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Unread postPosted: Tue Jun 13, 2017 11:23 pm
  

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That's a shame. I have a hard time personally believing it, but it's a shame none the less. Maybe they could assign a special BTS task force of freelancers or mix and match personnel to finish the books they have been promising us. I have to believe that there have to be enough BTS fans out there to jump on this just to see this done. I would volunteer but after that whole WotC fiasco, I am on guard about giving away any of my own intellectual property even to a company I still somewhat respect like Palladium.

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Ask yourself this;
Do you want to be a puddle or an ocean?
Why be a puddle when you get stepped in and in time dried up and forgotten.
When an ocean can destroy an entire city.


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Unread postPosted: Tue Jun 13, 2017 11:51 pm
  

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Comment: Palladium Books Canon is set solely by Kevin Siembieda, either in person, or by his approval of published material.
Holister wrote:
That's a shame. I have a hard time personally believing it, but it's a shame none the less. Maybe they could assign a special BTS task force of freelancers or mix and match personnel to finish the books they have been promising us. I have to believe that there have to be enough BTS fans out there to jump on this just to see this done. I would volunteer but after that whole WotC fiasco, I am on guard about giving away any of my own intellectual property even to a company I still somewhat respect like Palladium.

The Staff at Palladium has always been very small.
And of that small staff, not a lot of them are writers.
And of those writers? They are working on the stuff that is economically most profitable first.
Rifts sells really well, so like it or not, Rifts is going to get the most attention since Rifts is what pays the bills.

And the other part of the issue is that basically you just summed up why there is no BTS material.
Everyone is expecting everyone else to do it because "there are a lot of fans so someone should do it"
But no one wants to do the work themselves, no one wants to take the risks themselves, just reap the rewards.
That means... no books.

_________________
The rules are not a bludgeon with which to hammer a character into a game. They are a guide to how a group of friends can get together to weave a collective story that entertains everyone involved. We forget that at our peril.

Edmund Burke wrote:
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."


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Unread postPosted: Tue Jun 13, 2017 11:57 pm
  

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Palladium could always offer a monetary reward, a bounty as it were, to get the job completed. That might encourage some people.

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Ask yourself this;
Do you want to be a puddle or an ocean?
Why be a puddle when you get stepped in and in time dried up and forgotten.
When an ocean can destroy an entire city.


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Unread postPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2017 12:19 am
  

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Comment: Palladium Books Canon is set solely by Kevin Siembieda, either in person, or by his approval of published material.
Holister wrote:
Palladium could always offer a monetary reward, a bounty as it were, to get the job completed. That might encourage some people.

There is a reward.
They do pay for published material. Both Rifter and books.

_________________
The rules are not a bludgeon with which to hammer a character into a game. They are a guide to how a group of friends can get together to weave a collective story that entertains everyone involved. We forget that at our peril.

Edmund Burke wrote:
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."


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Unread postPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2017 12:22 am
  

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:eek: I did not know that. Well then, I am completely out of ideas.

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Ask yourself this;
Do you want to be a puddle or an ocean?
Why be a puddle when you get stepped in and in time dried up and forgotten.
When an ocean can destroy an entire city.


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Unread postPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2017 1:25 am
  

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In an article called "The Rifts Connection" first published in Rifter #2 and later in Skraypers Kevin stated that BtS is no longer the past of Rifts Earth but a dimensional twin.

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Unread postPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2017 3:23 am
  

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eliakon wrote:
Holister wrote:
That's a shame. I have a hard time personally believing it, but it's a shame none the less. Maybe they could assign a special BTS task force of freelancers or mix and match personnel to finish the books they have been promising us. I have to believe that there have to be enough BTS fans out there to jump on this just to see this done. I would volunteer but after that whole WotC fiasco, I am on guard about giving away any of my own intellectual property even to a company I still somewhat respect like Palladium.

The Staff at Palladium has always been very small.
And of that small staff, not a lot of them are writers.
And of those writers? They are working on the stuff that is economically most profitable first.
Rifts sells really well, so like it or not, Rifts is going to get the most attention since Rifts is what pays the bills.

And the other part of the issue is that basically you just summed up why there is no BTS material.
Everyone is expecting everyone else to do it because "there are a lot of fans so someone should do it"
But no one wants to do the work themselves, no one wants to take the risks themselves, just reap the rewards.
That means... no books.



I think the major difference between Palladium "taking the risk" and a freelancer is that the BTS2 books that are needed are *core* books. They will deal with core rules, not just a little bit of extra fluff. As such, there are more things to consider when putting together such a book beyond a simple World Book. This is not to say that World Books are *small* however, if I were to design, say, "Rifts Nepal" it might be a big hit or it may not (I have no idea if any books cover Nepal, this was just the first country I thought of... :)). However, the PB staff can later distance themselves from it if they don't like it after it's been released. Just don't refer to it anymore. Or they can just add something in a future book saying that China or whatever now has control of it and the world book is obsolete. If, however, I were to design BTS Arcana, that is going to affect *all* future BTS books that come out as they will be core rules. As such, this really has to be something created from the top, not by a freelancer. Sure, a freelancer could send in some sample rules for Rifter, but I think that should be it.

What annoys me about it is PB still has the BTS2 books listed on their website saying "coming soon". I emailed PB in May last year to ask about the other books, and they said the plan was to get them out late last year. Reading the forums, there was no such plan. They should just remove those books from their "coming soon" status and not keep people living in false hope.


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Unread postPosted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 12:54 am
  

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It's almost like BTS1 should still be the core book and BTS2 is just a sourcebook to scavenge as needed.

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Unread postPosted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 1:28 am
  

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That actually makes sense. Since the other two books are never going to happen, BtS 1 should just be released with a new cover. :D

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Ask yourself this;
Do you want to be a puddle or an ocean?
Why be a puddle when you get stepped in and in time dried up and forgotten.
When an ocean can destroy an entire city.


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Unread postPosted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 7:53 am
  

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Comment: Being a moderator doesn't mean I speak for Palladium Books. It just makes me the lifeguard at their pool.
Palladium has let a Freelancer have a core book in the past, most recently with Splicers.

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Unread postPosted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 10:38 am
  

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Oh Jeff, you and your shenanigans, Splicers is not BtS. :D Anyway, a re-release of BtS 1st edition with a nice hard bound cover, maybe toss in the Boxed Nightmares stuff in the back. They can even include some of the new psychic stuff. They can list it for like $30 and make all us BtS fans happy while still focusing their attentions on the Rifts fans and Zombie junkies.

_________________
Ask yourself this;
Do you want to be a puddle or an ocean?
Why be a puddle when you get stepped in and in time dried up and forgotten.
When an ocean can destroy an entire city.


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Unread postPosted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 8:02 pm
  

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Comment: Being a moderator doesn't mean I speak for Palladium Books. It just makes me the lifeguard at their pool.
I didn't say it was, just that freelancers have been given core books in the past.

Technically Erick Wujick was a freelancer and his writing credits include Ninjas and Superspies, Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, Recon and After the Bomb 2nd Edition, all core books as well.

So it's not impossible for a freelancer to do core books, they just have to make Kevin think they have a good core book in them and that the concept is good enough to see print.

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Unread postPosted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 8:57 pm
  

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Ok, this is what I'll do. I will give you $20 and (checks couch ) 37 cents to freelance a new BtS book. A real book, minimum of 200 pages, not some rinky dink Rifter. Nobody reads those anyway. :D

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Ask yourself this;
Do you want to be a puddle or an ocean?
Why be a puddle when you get stepped in and in time dried up and forgotten.
When an ocean can destroy an entire city.


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