Proof of wave two

Kryptt · Unread post by **Kryptt** » Wed Feb 18, 2015 4:37 pm

Hello there. Is it possible the mods can send this post up the ranks or see if someone at PB can show pictures of actual work on wave two. I know it's Chinese New Year, but it should just about be over and the factory should be up and running now. Pictures of the cg files or something anything will do. I'm only asking here since it is palladium related and I'm hoping the mods see it. Thank you and safe journeys.

zyanitevp · Unread post by **zyanitevp** » Wed Feb 18, 2015 7:45 pm

I will suggest it on my call on Friday.

Kryptt · Unread post by **Kryptt** » Wed Feb 18, 2015 11:40 pm

Much appreciated Z.

Alpha 11 · Unread post by **Alpha 11** » Thu Feb 19, 2015 12:10 am

Ya, I think we all could use a little progress report on wave 2.

Kryptt · Unread post by **Kryptt** » Thu Feb 19, 2015 3:37 am

When I pledged I never doubted I'd get the game and I'm happy with it. I've been able to modify my models so I'm not stuck with a saturday night fever pose like everyone on FB seems to have. Point is the lack of proof is worrying. Yes Kevin mentions every week it's being worked on. The same could be said of NG-1/2 and many books that have been on presale or promised. We saw a lot of pictures of cg renders and prototypes for wave one. ND said the files are done and that PB has had them for some time now. This time around there has been nothing except the same line week after week. That someone is working on it. Some backers think all the RRT money is almost gone and there isn't any left to produce wave two. I sincerely hope that isn't the case.

I and I'm sure many here and other backers would love to see actual progress and not just told the same line that it's being worked on. Please show and don't just tell.

glitterboy2098 · Thu Feb 19, 2015 5:12 pm

Kryptt wrote:Hello there. Is it possible the mods can send this post up the ranks or see if someone at PB can show pictures of actual work on wave two. I know it's Chinese New Year, but it should just about be over and the factory should be up and running now. Pictures of the cg files or something anything will do. I'm only asking here since it is palladium related and I'm hoping the mods see it. Thank you and safe journeys.

actually, chinese new year wouldn't effect the design side of wave 2, since ninja division is not a chinese company. CNY wouldo nly effect the production side. which at the moment, is probably just more runs of wave 1 materials.

Kryptt · Unread post by **Kryptt** » Sat Feb 21, 2015 10:28 pm

If that's the case then there is no reason for not showing progress on wave two. Thanks for the clarification.

rosco60559 · Unread post by **rosco60559** » Sun Feb 22, 2015 9:21 pm

Actual proof of progress would make for a good update, just a slight hint.

Forar · Unread post by **Forar** » Mon Feb 23, 2015 10:48 am

Across ~two dozen figures (possibly as high as 28, depending on whether or not they re-use the regular Fighter/Guardian for Rick's VT), the bases, SDF-1 and 4 objectives, there's just a ton left to do, which cuts both ways: yes, it is entirely reasonable for this to be a lot of work which is going to take a lot of time. But it also means that there should be tangible progress on *something* to showcase.

With 5 months until Gencon, where I assume they intend to showcase Wave 2 (if not attempt another early release), time is not on their side.

And maybe (giving the benefit of the doubt) there has been *tons* of progress they're just not showing. Which would be a shame, because it'd fly in the face of both their Kickstarter Campaign promise to keep the backers in the loop, and their promise (reiterated several times in updates) to communicate better. Saying "it's totes being worked on!" for several months isn't improved communication, as they've been fairly good over the years about speaking up regularly. Saying anything of merit, however, has been somewhat less common, and since Wave 1 went into production we haven't had much more than 'trust us, it's coming along!'

Frankly, that trust is in rather short supply, at least personally.

And as I've always said, I would *love* to be proven wrong.

Kryptt · Unread post by **Kryptt** » Mon Feb 23, 2015 11:31 pm

Agreed.

zyanitevp · Unread post by **zyanitevp** » Wed Feb 25, 2015 12:29 am

Again, working on it- both NMI and I are trying to get something on this...

Alpha 11 · Unread post by **Alpha 11** » Wed Feb 25, 2015 12:44 am

zyanitevp wrote:Again, working on it- both NMI and I are trying to get something on this...

Thanks!

Kryptt · Unread post by **Kryptt** » Wed Feb 25, 2015 2:35 am

Thanks Z.

Forar · Unread post by **Forar** » Wed Feb 25, 2015 11:22 am

That is appreciated.

I don't think anyone reasonable is expecting absolutes, but surely there's more to say/show off than vague allusions to work being done. There's a big grey area of unknowns, because, well, we don't really know anything.

How many *final final super duper final* digital models are *done* (no more revisions, everyone has stamped approval)?
Have any 3D printed sprue piece prototypes been produced yet?
Are any molds being milled?
Are there any figures that are holding up the process (and if so, what's goin' on)?

Morgan Vening · Fri Feb 27, 2015 12:29 am

Well, nothing substantial (or visual, images/photos/etc) in the PBWU, just promises that it's happening. Mebee there'll be something more substantial in a KS Update?

zyanitevp · Unread post by **zyanitevp** » Fri Feb 27, 2015 5:49 am

I am talking to them in 7 hours- I will bring it up, and report back....

Shawn Merrow · Sat Feb 28, 2015 10:55 pm

They posted a Wave 2 update.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/rr ... ts/1150566

Kryptt · Unread post by **Kryptt** » Sat Feb 28, 2015 11:18 pm

Liking the ghost progress.

Forar · Unread post by **Forar** » Sun Mar 01, 2015 2:04 pm

The Lancer, however, looks dramatically different from what I recall from the show, and definitely when compared to what is in the RPG books.

Alpha 11 · Unread post by **Alpha 11** » Sun Mar 01, 2015 11:53 pm

We asked, and they gave!

The Galactus Kid · Mon Mar 02, 2015 3:58 pm

I hope that the Lancer looks closer to what is in the books than in the preview.

Kryptt · Unread post by **Kryptt** » Mon Mar 02, 2015 4:37 pm

That and the ghost looks chunky compared to the art and show. Looking at the jotun the legs looks like they'll be straight. I wish PB would give us some other leg pose options. The renders are a concern since the valkyrie isn't all that accurate. If you look at the nose in all 3 modes the nose doesn't have the flat spot at the tip of the nose like the art. The proportions of the fighter version looks a bit off at the front. Then again at such a small scale I guess the factory or the cgi artist figured it's close enough.

At this point I think PB just wants to get this over with so they don't have to deal with all the negativity.

Scott Gibbons · Mon Mar 02, 2015 7:03 pm

Hmm, updates are asked for - nay, demanded - then are met, not with words of thanks for the large amount of work the people at PB are putting into the project, or with thoughts about what people are liking in the project, but only with plenty of immediate criticisms... Why in the world would PB just want to get this project over with?

(Ok, go ahead, cut me to pieces...)

Personally, I like the way the Gnerl looks, and appreciate the render that shows the individual parts as it makes it easy for me to imagine how it all fits together. I also appreciate that they are working to get the seams in the Jotun legs to where they will be less noticeable, as I think that will greatly enhance the look of the final piece.

Kryptt · Unread post by **Kryptt** » Tue Mar 03, 2015 12:10 am

No need to "cut you to pieces." No one here has said anything derogatory. We'er just voicing concern about some of the proportions. In fact in this thread nobody has made a comment about piece count. A lot of backers have expressed thanks to PB, Wayne in particular. Relax fella no need to flame. This thread has been civil and I'd like to keep it that way.

As for PB wanting this to end. If you were getting grief all the time wouldn't you want to get it over with and done with to move onto other ventures? If you read the comments here it's not criticism it's legitimate concern.

zyanitevp · Unread post by **zyanitevp** » Tue Mar 03, 2015 3:34 am

Shawn Merrow wrote:They posted a Wave 2 update.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/rr ... ts/1150566

So, just so you all know, they do listen- this update was brought to you by all of the coordinators begging Kevin and Jeff Burke to post an update....

The Galactus Kid · Tue Mar 03, 2015 10:22 am

Yeah, I'm glad an update was posted. I personally didn't think it was necessary, but I can see why others wanted one. I LOVE the way the Gneral and the Ghost are looking. My only concern is the lancer as it is some of my favorite art in the new Robotech books.
this thread has a link to the artwork versus model

Forar · Unread post by **Forar** » Tue Mar 03, 2015 1:04 pm

zyanitevp wrote:So, just so you all know, they do listen- this update was brought to you by all of the coordinators begging Kevin and Jeff Burke to post an update....

Hopefully going forward, we won't need "all of the coordinators begging" anyone to keep the information flowing.

With over 2 dozen figures being worked on, plus the resin bases/objective markers/SDF-1, and a mere 5 months until Gencon (where they'll presumably be debuting at least some of the figures), there should be a lot to talk about in the coming weeks/months, even if delivery of wave 2 falls to the end of the year.

Alpha 11 · Unread post by **Alpha 11** » Sun Mar 08, 2015 9:46 pm

Forar wrote:
zyanitevp wrote:So, just so you all know, they do listen- this update was brought to you by all of the coordinators begging Kevin and Jeff Burke to post an update....

Hopefully going forward, we won't need "all of the coordinators begging" anyone to keep the information flowing.

With over 2 dozen figures being worked on, plus the resin bases/objective markers/SDF-1, and a mere 5 months until Gencon (where they'll presumably be debuting at least some of the figures), there should be a lot to talk about in the coming weeks/months, even if delivery of wave 2 falls to the end of the year.

Let's hope it don't take by the end of the year. I hope that they can at least start the production run of wave 2 by Gencon, if not before.

Forar · Unread post by **Forar** » Sun Mar 08, 2015 11:21 pm

Even if they start production by Gencon, it'll take weeks (at least) to punch out that many sprues, especially if (like last time) they produce for backers, web orders, and retail together. While the number of figures is significantly smaller this time (27 per Battle Cry rather than 70), the number of sprues for the wave will be much higher; probably around 14-16 different sprues (again, assuming a similar distribution) in varying quantities per figure, and that's before accounting for the other dozen or so that will make up the add on only stuff.

Then add in shipping, which even if it goes smoothly is over a month from factory to PB's warehouse.

Gencon is 142 days away according to their site. So far they've shown off some renders and potential piece breakdowns, which are great, but they've apparently still got a long way to go on a lot of models.

Basically, we can debate back and forth how far along they might or might not be, but if they don't start punching plastic in the next 2-3 months, the only stuff they might have at Gencon will probably be what they specially air-freight over or have made in North America (resin/pewter limited editions, etc).

I'm setting my expectations low, and even the end of the year might be optimistic, considering how long things took and being a non-US backer.

Perhaps the next update will have more tangible things to say about the state of where they are. As is their current stance, I'm not expecting an actual time frame for quite a while, but if it's to be in the next half year, they'd need to commit to things fairly soon.

rosco60559 · Unread post by **rosco60559** » Mon Mar 09, 2015 4:25 pm

I'm thinking they need to get it in gear and get this done. a lot of the cooler stuff is that wave.

Spinachcat · Unread post by **Spinachcat** » Wed Mar 11, 2015 2:14 pm

I am cool with getting my Wave 2 stuff by Christmas 2015.

Based on the March update, there appears to be a lot of design work that needs completion and I would rather they not rush the design work just to hit arbitrary deadlines. AKA, we are going to be using these minis for years, maybe decades, so why not get them right the first time and take a little longer.

There is no rush. Wave 1 gave us PLENTY of toys.

Kryptt · Unread post by **Kryptt** » Wed Mar 11, 2015 3:44 pm

Spinachcat wrote:Based on the March update, there appears to be a lot of design work that needs completion and I would rather they not rush the design work just to hit arbitrary deadlines. AKA, we are going to be using these minis for years, maybe decades, so why not get them right the first time and take a little longer.

This was said back before the dec 2013 deadline. They did take their time with wave one, then came spartangate and all the other models that were split down the middle. Just because the factory is taking its time doesn't mean it'll be quality product (mileage may vary). If anything the rdf models look rushed so they could have been sold at gencon. I can't say that is the case, but more time does not equal quality. If anything that's a rather naive outlook. Just look at how much time has passed since this project was funded. They've had all this time to get the lancer done and it looks off. Yes it could be the angle, but then again look at the glaug eldare it's many pieces. The ghost, monster, and the Gnerl are split down the middle. I'm sure some lessons might have been learned I just haven't seen it yet.

Forar · Unread post by **Forar** » Thu Mar 12, 2015 8:08 am

Spinachcat wrote:There is no rush. Wave 1 gave us PLENTY of toys.

As a counterpoint, based on how concerned they were about generating "hype" and "buzz" at last Gencon, I'd say that launching a game line in 2014 and not having any new expansions available at retail for 2015 probably wouldn't be good for keeping it on people's radar.

Though it wasn't actually available at Gencon last year, so perhaps having cores and expansions on hand will be enough.

Spinachcat · Unread post by **Spinachcat** » Sat Mar 14, 2015 6:17 pm

GenCon 2015 will be the first time attendees can buy a basic box and they will have specialist minis packs for people to buy. Let's not forget that we got Wave 1, but others will have to buy Basic Box + lots of Packs to get the equivalent of Wave 1. So for them, it will appear that PB has expanded the line, especially since there was nothing for them to buy last GenCon.

Then GenCon 2016 will show off Wave 2 bits for them to buy.

Morgan Vening · Sat Mar 14, 2015 8:02 pm

Spinachcat wrote:GenCon 2015 will be the first time attendees can buy a basic box and they will have specialist minis packs for people to buy. Let's not forget that we got Wave 1, but others will have to buy Basic Box + lots of Packs to get the equivalent of Wave 1. So for them, it will appear that PB has expanded the line, especially since there was nothing for them to buy last GenCon.

Then GenCon 2016 will show off Wave 2 bits for them to buy.

Except it'll have been at retail for going on 9 months. While yes, technically, it'll be the first time it'll be available at GenCon, something that's been on the open market for 3/4 of a year, is not new, and is not in and of itself, buzzworthy. Especially given they were pushing pre-sales, so it's an even weaker argument that it's new, if people were able to pay for it (and have since received it) at GenCon 2014.

And I think trying to pass it off as new will be seen as a weak move. Better off not even mentioning it's "newness", and push it as a line product, and if not selling any Wave 2 product (which has it's own pros and cons almost exactly the same as last years), at least pushing their forthcoming nature.

agent_orange · Unread post by **agent_orange** » Tue Mar 31, 2015 8:12 am

not to start an argument but does anyone know who's designing the changes for the wave 2 stuff? Ninja Division said ages ago that they had completed their work and passed it to PB and had no further involvement so who's been brought in to do this stuff ?

Forar · Unread post by **Forar** » Tue Mar 31, 2015 10:17 am

That seems like a fair question.

Perhaps ND's contact included covering ongoing change requirements? I recall hearing that Wave One took a lot longer than anticipated, and it's possible that ND's original work was indeed completed, but were/are needed to further tweak the models?

Not saying that is how it is, just pondering how it might be possible for both ND's original work to be done and for there to be ongoing efforts.

I have an acquaintance at an effects company that used to work on a massive show, and they eventually had to give up the contract because the constant revisions required were taking their profit margin and pushing it into the red. It was prestigious work, and I think they got awards for it, but they had to bow out all the same.

They're working on one of this years blockbusters right now, so I guess they're doing okay for themselves all the same.

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