I'm done

[cornholioprime]

I'll keep this as professional as possible, and I won't spam.

I have received my Showdown + Battlecry + Wave 1 Add Ons and after putting together 9 figures...I quit. The product, in my opinion, is sub par. Without going into detail, the engineering of these pieces was hideous. So on that note, I am done with Robotech RPG Tactics. I have sold my 3 boxes and when I receive Wave 2, I will be selling those as well. I have been very frustrated with how the kickstarter was handled, but when my boxes came in I put it all aside and was quite excited to begin assembly and was let down once more. So for that, I am done. I honestly just want to break even and get my money back, so if I have to turn to the free market, I will.

There are people who love their product. For those people, I am genuinely happy. We all have different levels of tolerances, and that's great. There was a certain person who said if we were disappointed, we should re-evaluate our expectations. As we were promised "mouth watering detail" and the renders looked phenomenal, my expectations were high. After the kickstarter shenanigans, I lowered my expectations, and even still, I was disappointed. I do not think re-evaluating our expectations is wise advice, as it only made me angry as I'm sure it did others as well.

As for other Palladium products, I'll try to be concise. Judging as a company, I do not like Palladium Books. Their professionalism after the kickstarter is lacking. First, the GenCon fiasco. Now the retailer fiasco. So for this, I will not support Palladium Book products across the board. That being said, however, I wish no ill will on Kevin, Wayne, Jeff, or anyone. I'm sure they're great people and if given the chance to talk to them, I would gladly talk to them in a genuinely friendly manner.

Some advice I would give if you plan to do another Kickstarter. Here's a list.
1) Tier pledges by waves and limit each wave so that it's more manageable.
2) Separate International and Domestic with included shipping prices on each tier. Then alternate shipping (wave 1 domestic ships first, wave 1 international ships second, wave 2 domestic first, etc)
3) Have a retailer tier. You're quite determined to get the product to retailers. If they are truly interested, have a pledge for retailers, which get theirs after the other backers.
4) Hire someone who is dedicated to communication. A part time employee, possibly. If you maintain a strict posting schedule, (Reaper does an update on the first and third friday of every month). Transparency and communication is very important to us as backers. During the RRT kickstarter, we have 0 transparency. Especially on how the molds are being done and how Quality Control is being handled.
5) Possibly outsource shipping to someone who specializes in it. It costs more money, but is more professional than trying to wear 10 hats at once.

I just want to share my thoughts and feelings. If you disagree, please, do so in a friendly manner. I am attacking no one.

Well said, Sir Khelthros.

I hope that Palladium Books reads your well-penned letter and gets on the ball to make amends to you.

[Alpha 11]

Sorry to hear this. Wish you luck.

[The Galactus Kid]

Sorry to hear that. I've been having a blast with it, so I'm sorry you're experiencing such difficulty.

[Tiree]

His experience is why I haven't purchased any. I have thought about it, but then I look at my living situation and it does not promote models around the house in various states of assembly for any point in time. Nor the space to place any size of an army.

[Forar]

Thank you for expressing your discontent so civilly, and sharing constructive criticism along with it.

I'm not done, but I am stepping back from some of the giant pile of plastic coming to me, for similar reasons, in that I am not a minis expert by any stretch, and am paring down what I intend to keep for average sized games, rather than immense army collections.

If there is another campaign, I do hope they peruse the feedback given about this one (yours and that from others alike) before proceeding. Even if they don't take the advice, they should be aware that the critique is out there.

[NMI]

As the Admin of these forums, I thank you for being civil and providing actual, constructive feedback and criticism.

I had a few minor problems when I first started putting together the mini's/models but that is mainly due to this being my first time putting together such mini's/models, wrong type of glue and nerve damage in my hands that causes them to shake.

Have a good one!

[Alpha 11]

As the Admin of these forums, I thank you for being civil and providing actual, constructive feedback and criticism.

I had a few minor problems when I first started putting together the mini's/models but that is mainly due to this being my first time putting together such mini's/models, wrong type of glue and nerve damage in my hands that causes them to shake.

Have a good one!

I am sorry to hear about nerve damage. I hope it isn't hindering you too much with these pieces.

One thing you can try is poster tack. I use some I got from Hobby Lobby for $2. It sticks fairly well and is pretty easy to clean off when you're done. For example, on the Phalanx, the canopy is very small. Some used their fingers, some used tweezers. I got a very small ball of tack, rolled it out to a line, applied glue to the spot and gently put it into place this way. I also used tack on the legs. The contact point for legs to hips is so small and didn't want to stay until I held it for 10 minutes (Using Zap-A-Gap CA+ glue) which is abnormal from usual. A shortcut I took was applied the tack to hold the legs in place to the hip, dry fit, removed the legs, applied glue, attached again. Just be careful with that..make sure there's a gap so you can get your hobby knife in to clean off the tack (which doesn't take much).

Another thing I did. At first, I cut pieces, then cleaned them off with my hobby knife. Later, I skipped that and glued the pieces together that were halves (such as leg halves on the destroids) with the nub still attached (I used Xuron 1175 side shears and cut down to the part). The halves aren't exactly flush anyways, so when I shaved away, I did them together so they would be as uniform as possible. For mold lines, you can either use the Games Workshop Mold Line remover, or use a hobby knife. I scraped the hobby knife with the blade against the surface, perpendicular to the piece. I'm sure it dulls the blade quicker, but it works fairly well.

I'm not an expert in modeling, but these are just a few things I did. I hope it helps. Take care.

And Happy Thanksgiving.

Same more good advice, thanks!

[Spinachcat]

If anyone's not happy with their stuff, I suggest not putting it out on eBay for at least 6-12 months after the game goes retail. There are 100 lots for sale right now with a handful of bids. If PB gets retailers to run events, then there will be interest by a growing fanbase. Also, remember that the money in minis is NOT the base set, its the specialist units. AKA, Wave 2 will probably sell better than your Wave 1 stuff.

[Marcus]

I would also suggest to not expect too much of a return for the stuff, unless this game really gets soaring.

[jaymz]

I would also suggest to not expect too much of a return for the stuff, unless this game really gets soaring.

Agreed. There is a guy right now trying to sell his Battlecry and he wants 275 + shipping for both wave one and wave two which he paid less than half that for and is wondering why people are telling him he's nuts. At best you should expect what you paid and not much more if anything.

[glitterboy2098]

honestly, i think if your going to sell, sell a unit at a time.. and price it about 50-75% of retail. that will maximize your odds of finding a buyer..

that's generally what i do when i sell my excess sourcebooks from the grab bags.

[MurderCityDisciple]

An anime geek friend of mine bought a main box set off of ebay, saw how many pieces there were and put it right back up for sale.

[Levi]

I expected some delays with the product as that is just how things work with Palladium.

While the game play sounds cool and most of the packaging, cards, and accessory components are nice, I have to admit the number of parts for each figure is insane. I will never end up using this game. I was expecting some assembly as would be normal for most miniatures, but 10+ each and at least a couple over 20, that is just too much for me. I don't have the time or motivation for that kind of assembly.

I hope the sales go well and more people like than don't. I haven't decided if I am going to sell my set or not.

[Daniel Stoker]

I avoided the kickstarter because after my experience with Warhammer I knew I didn't have the patience to put miniatures together no matter much I liked the game but I admit I was hoping that they'd be easier or even assembled like a few other games I've played or looked forward to (yes I'm looking at you Star Wars Armada), but I admit I didn't expect it to be quite like what I'm hearing about.


Daniel Stoker

[Marcus]

I expected some delays with the product as that is just how things work with Palladium.

While the game play sounds cool and most of the packaging, cards, and accessory components are nice, I have to admit the number of parts for each figure is insane. I will never end up using this game. I was expecting some assembly as would be normal for most miniatures, but 10+ each and at least a couple over 20, that is just too much for me. I don't have the time or motivation for that kind of assembly.

I hope the sales go well and more people like than don't. I haven't decided if I am going to sell my set or not.

A regular Space Marine from Warhammer 40k has 10 parts and is about an inch of height. I am at a loss what people expected.

[jaymz]

Many expected something akin to Battletech. 8-12 pieces. Not 18-14 with some of the choices made in how to divide up the parts.... (seriously upper arm, lower arm and hand are all separate on the spartan? oye...)

I expected assembly but not what amounts to a larger model kit shrunk to 2 inches in height. I'll do it because dammit I am stubborn but there had to be a better way.

[Marcus]

Many expected something akin to Battletech. 8-12 pieces. Not 18-14 with some of the choices made in how to divide up the parts.... (seriously upper arm, lower arm and hand are all separate on the spartan? oye...)

I expected assembly but not what amounts to a larger model kit shrunk to 2 inches in height. I'll do it because dammit I am stubborn but there had to be a better way.

I think you would be surprised then about the number of parts of the newer BattleTech miniatures from IWM. Lots of pieces. Lots!

[jaymz]

I am no modeller. I've seen them. To me the parts split at least seems to make sense. I don't mind parts if the split up makes sense.

[rosco60559]

I know I was expecting 10-15 parts each. I also expected good decisions, like the phalanx cockpit should have been on the torso, or that little booger of triangular plastic for the battloid chest. Also hoped for decent instructions and labeled parts for example which leg goes with which foot tomahawk/defender best example for that. Overall the figs are ok not mouthwatering. I had other expectations but I won't get into those. You all gave a good night.

[agent_orange]

I have to say, as a backer from Ireland I will likely not see my stuff till next year and I'm done already

This choice to ship to distributors before backer shipping was completed when it had been stated all along that backers would be shipped to first was the last straw for me. After a year and a half of defending decisions and being on the creators side (I voted to sell at Gencon for example) this one thing is impossible to argue with.

I'm sad that the game may be great and the miniatures reasonable but the way information has been disseminated and decisions made has soured it for me. I really do hope that if another Kickstarter is considered (and I'd advise thinking very hard about if it is really worth going that route for future products) that the advice Khelthros gives above is taken into account.

[Marcus]

[quote="Khelthros]The core box needs to be completely redesigned. Why do I say this? A starter box is just that, something to get you started. The Games Workshop Dark Vengeance set is an example of this. Pieces that can't be posed, but is meant to get up and playing ASAP, as a regular Dark Angel is only 4 pieces including base.[/quote]
I know of no other TT that has a starter box set like GW produces them with snap fit miniatures. And guess what? As awesome that is, "Hobbyists" whine that those ware not pose-able enough. And that could be the main lesson here, TT Players are never happy.

[Phaze]

The core box needs to be completely redesigned. Why do I say this? A starter box is just that, something to get you started. The Games Workshop Dark Vengeance set is an example of this. Pieces that can't be posed, but is meant to get up and playing ASAP, as a regular Dark Angel is only 4 pieces including base.

I am of a different opinion. I like the fact the if I want to start an army I can buy this and get the 'full' version of the mini, not some snap tite mini that stands there like a statue. The first time I bought a starter box from GW was the last because the orks and Space marines were crap minis. Tactics has the same mini if I bought a starter set or an add-on box.

TT Players are never happy.

Now thats the truth...

[McPherson]

I agree with Khelthros that a starter box benefits from the GW style snap fit minis. A nice easy springboard from which you can then contrast with more complex pose able miniatures in the rest of the product line.

However GW also benefit from having such long product lines and can afford to create specific snap fit kits for the starter boxes because they already have hundreds of other products people can then springboard into if they enjoyed the starter, Palladium does not.

I haven't seen the RRT minis in person yet and unless someone locally buys online I wont until the new year, I've heard mixed reviews and from what i've seen of what people have put online I think that considering their size that perhaps they have gone a bit too complex in construction. But again its a new field for Palladium to be involved in so I can give them the benefit of the doubt there.

However i'm hoping that the complexity of these minis means there is at least a good chance for variety in poses and equipment loadouts - because in the end if you have a complex 20 piece model that when lined up against the rest of the models looks as static and unvaried as a GW snapfix kit then you have a legitimate concern.

- End of Line -

[Jerell]

The models do have different options from arms and missiles. You can put the arms, guns and legs on differently on a lot of them, and it's seems to me it's going to be very easy to convert a few minis as well. I've had the starter GW Marines and Termies, they're fine for what they are. I've put to termies to good use in the past. That being said I'm glad the RRT minis are how they are.

I'll take quality over one pose static clones, for a game of this scale. However if there's interest, and HG blesses off, maybe doing a set of lower quality, low count models would be okay for those who want that. The difference is that RRT is much smaller in model count than my normal 40k game. Taking a 3 squads of mecha out for a RRT game is nothing like fielding my platoons of IG with armor and artillery support for just a 1500 point 40k game. I think GW needs the easy start models just because it can be daunting to get your first 40k army up to (in my area) the usual 1500+ point game. On the other hand I think 2 or 3 squads will get you a good game of RRT right now.

Building a VF isn't all that much more involved than putting a plastic 40k marine together. Your looking at about 13-15 pieces for a VF plus missiles, and 9-10 pieces for a marine plus pistol, grenades, purity seals, pouches, knives, icons, auspex, melta bomb, ect. I've converted a great deal of marines, I haven't converted any RRT minis yet, but it does LOOK like it'll be about as easy as converting your standard marine. There's nothing complex here.

[jaymz]

I am not very good at this but the running pose for the Spartan is that bad really...at least to me but I am a relative novice so take that as you will. It was a PITA to put together imo especial with the rights arms being single piece and the lefts being three piece...

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b111/ ... 5a94c2.jpg

[kevarin]

i didnt like the running pose so i messed around with the legs till i got both of mine standing straight
http://i470.photobucket.com/albums/rr64 ... AG0026.jpg

[calto40k]

Just waiting for Wave 2 to get my Rick Hunter since due to financial issues, as well as using the money that would have gone to them for a convention where I ran demos for Robotech, and had attempted to run Rifts demos at sapped me dry. Hope you guys are having fun with them, and to the OP I hope you get a decent return on your investment.

[Jerell]

I'm having a wonderful time painting my VF-1s. More fun than I've had painting anything in years. But of course Macross will always have a special place in my heart.

If you equate quality to poseability, then I have to disagree, it fails. There's not a lot of variation.
If you equate quality to detail, then this still fails. These pieces are not "mouth watering" nor are the details outstanding, due to a lot of textures connecting to the sprue, which texture is lost when cleaning up. And then there are the seams/gaps. They aren't a snug fit, so seams are noticeable.

(Note: Tolerance for detail is subjective. Games Workshop has superb detail, RRT does not. In my opinion. There's not a right or wrong answer to this.)

I can only speak on the behalf of the destroids, as that's all I really got done before selling the game.

Did you sell it already? I'll be in the market for more pods and VF-1s in the future. Heck, I'd trade you 40k stuff for it, if you like.

I haven't touched the destroids yet. The Pods are fantastic though, much more of a snug fit than any of my GW jump packs or Lemans. Also the nose of the VF-1 is a very snug fit on the fighter and gerwalk, mine have gone together seamless. The legs on the gerwalk and Battleloid have needed touching up however. The options are better on the VF-1 as well. Both the gerwalk and the battloid do, in fact, come with two sets of arms per miniature.

I like GW, I've been playing 40k since 2nd edition, and regular Warhammer since around the same time (around '91). Some of GWs seams aren't any better though, some are, and some are worse. But GW has been smarter in the placement of most of their seams (excluding the jump packs). And don't get me started on "finecast," or how long it took them to get a decent face on a female figure...

Looking at my VF-1s next to my plastic marines on my desk, I have to say, to me, the detail on either looks to be in the same ballpark. The front seam on the battleloid leg is the only thing that bothers me. But with a little green stuff and a minute or two, that will no longer be a problem.

The best example of how to do detail and seams on a smaller model, to me, is 1/72 Dragon Armor. To each their own.