Broken promises

[Kryptt]

Before this gets locked does anyone else here feel slighted by PB since there selling RRT at GC before most backers get theirs?

[bielmic]

Absolutely (both in that I am disappointed and that damage control will be here soon to lock the thread regardless of merit). Yet another in a long string of broken promises and disappointment since day one post kickstarter. I'm sure the usual folks will be around to insult those who simply wanted Palladium to hold true to their word repeated over and over and to tell us just how happy we should be that we're just getting the stuff... or at least 1/3 of the model types.... 8-12 months late... and weeks to months after folks who didn't give a darn over a year ago get there's. But, hey, I'm sure the ebay resellers who get multiple copies just like the ebay resellers who got multiple copies of Max/Miriya last year will make up for pissing of so many of the people that believed despite the decidedly negative rep that Palladium has that they were backing a project that was worth it and would be rewarded with gratitude in actions, not just empty words/promises.

[Morgan Vening]

I expected it, I understand it (from a short term perspective), but it's still IMO, a bad decision.

I just wish they'd offer refunds to those who want out.

[LeperColony]

When PB first moved the ship date, I expected all manner of delays and underhandedness to follow. Sad to say I have not been disappointed.

The simple fact is, PB has our money, so they can just stiff us every time. I can honestly say I regret helping PB survive the theft scandal, and I won't be supporting their product anymore.

[Randomfist]

Are you freaking kidding me? So mad right now, need to stop before I say something that gets me banned. I may call them tomorrow though to rip them a new one, not that they will care.

[rosco60559]

I expected this as well. Don't like it, feel it's a huge steaming load of bs. At least when I'm lied to at work I'm being paid to listen to the lies.

[Maximilian Jenius]

Simply put if I do not receive my product before random people at gencon do I will not only never purchase a single palladium product ever again I will also spread the word about how poorly palladium has treated the kickstarter backers every chance I can get, in every venue I possibly can.

This is without a doubt the most insulting business decision I have ever seen.

[Kryptt]

There's already a chant about not supporting PB anymore.

"NEVER A KICKSTARTER AGAIN FOR PALLADIUM "


I hope Kevin rethinks this. I know some angry backers who are attending GC will make it a point to go to booth #1223.

[MurderCityDisciple]

Now now guys...what are the odds that there will be any boxes to sell at Gen Con?

Unless they are airmailing them, it's gonna be iffy if they get them in the warehouse in time for the convention.

Are they airmailing them?

Are the backers actually footing the bill for the airmailing if so?

Should Palladium beef up security at their Gen Con booth because of irate backer rage?

[Damian Magecraft]

I expected it, I understand it (from a short term perspective), but it's still IMO, a bad decision.

I just wish they'd offer refunds to those who want out.

I thought they did offer the opportunity to get a refund over a year ago.

[Scott Gibbons]

Taking the following into consideration (all from my own personal experiences):

A) PB has very rarely gotten any of its announced deadlines/delivery dates right, and they've broken other promises to their fans (Tome Grotesque anyone? )
B) A successful product launch (and a Kickstarter campaign to get something designed and manufactured is not a product launch) means reaching not only the dyed-in-the-wool hardcore fans who've been waiting many years for someone/anyone to make this game but new customers as well - people who have heard little or nothing of the new product, but would be willing to give it a try if it is just brought to their attention

Then no, I personally am not in the least disappointed by the Gen Con Indy decision. And yes, I do indeed acknowledge that Kevin's plan is breaking the promise that the Kickstarter people would get the product first. I also acknowledge that there is plenty of very valid room for people to be disappointed. However, in this case, my pragmatic side is winning out over my emotions.

And I would also like to point out that this move, in the long term, will benefit the Kickstarter people - indeed, it will benefit all the fans of RRT. A successful product launch at a large and timely event (or at the least a large amount of publicity/public venue) like Gen Con Indy will mean that there will be more players of RRT nationally, which means:

1) More sales of the RRT game, leading to a higher probability of future expansion packs and more product in general that you want.

2) More people playing the game all over the nation (and indeed the world), thus making it easier for you to find someone to play with.

3) With more people having the game, game store managers will be more willing to both stock the game and its future expansions, making it easier and cheaper for you to buy those products.

4) The higher demand for the game and ther greater number of players will lead those same game store managers to make table space more easily available to play, giving you a place where you can play.

5) The more people who start playing RRT, the more likely it is that organized events like tourneys and such will come into existence, events that many of you will enjoy.

So yes, it is a broken promise, and indeed a very valid reason for disappointment. In fact, I do not want to put down or make light of anyone's feelings here - in my eyes you have every right to be disappointed, bitter and angry. But in the long term, I think Kevin is making the right decision, not only for himself and his company, but also for the fans as a group.

All I'd ask is to, in the midst of your fully justified feelings of disappointment and anger, ask yourself 'does this plan have the potential in the long term to help make things better?'

Just my two cents.

[Spinachcat]

Isn't there a rule on Kickstarter that we have to get our goodies first before the creator can sell the KS project as a retail item?

I thought there was, but I don't know.

If that's an actual KS rule, not just a common courtesy of the KS site, then selling RTT may be more than bad PR.

[Kryptt]

Isn't there a rule on Kickstarter that we have to get our goodies first before the creator can sell the KS project as a retail item?

I thought there was, but I don't know.

If that's an actual KS rule, not just a common courtesy of the KS site, then selling RTT may be more than bad PR.

Actually Kevin himself promised the backers they would get the game before it sold at retail. Since you need a retail license to sell at GC, many backers who have never commented and most everyone else have posted their disgust at Kevin and PB. It seems unfair that some stranger who didn't back RRT gets backer product first than the people who helped fund the "dream".

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/rr ... sts/908150

" NEVER A KICKSTARTER AGAIN FOR PALLADIUM "

[Jorel]

They could have offered pre-orders like Games & Gears did who actually dealt with natural disaster of a flood and not poor planning and clueless operation.

[Jorel]

I personally think it makes them look like jerks to the all the Kickstarter backers they promised would get product 1st. They lied and are now trying to amend that statement.

[LeperColony]

Involved Observer, ask yourself which is more likely to grow the game: The satisfaction of 5,342 backers who, sight unseen, put down over 2,000% the initial Kickstarter goal, or the happy reception by "a few hundred" lucky Gen Con goers?

Now, throw into the mix that the satisfaction of the "few hundred" has been purchased by the disapproval of many of the 5,342 and you have a very unhappy equation for PB.

[Jorel]

"NEVER A KICKSTARTER AGAIN FOR PALLADIUM "

[jreece06]

It's not just kickstarter. It wasn't easy to come up with the money I have them 15 months ago. I won't give money to people who lie to me. I'm done buying PB products period now.

[jreece06]

Also, to those saying they can't promote it at gen con without selling it... that's stupid. They've promoted it at every com they've been at since anime north last year. They could always take orders to be filled after everything ships

[zyanitevp]

Taking the following into consideration (all from my own personal experiences):

A) PB has very rarely gotten any of its announced deadlines/delivery dates right, and they've broken other promises to their fans (Tome Grotesque anyone? )
B) A successful product launch (and a Kickstarter campaign to get something designed and manufactured is not a product launch) means reaching not only the dyed-in-the-wool hardcore fans who've been waiting many years for someone/anyone to make this game but new customers as well - people who have heard little or nothing of the new product, but would be willing to give it a try if it is just brought to their attention

Then no, I personally am not in the least disappointed by the Gen Con Indy decision. And yes, I do indeed acknowledge that Kevin's plan is breaking the promise that the Kickstarter people would get the product first. I also acknowledge that there is plenty of very valid room for people to be disappointed. However, in this case, my pragmatic side is winning out over my emotions.

And I would also like to point out that this move, in the long term, will benefit the Kickstarter people - indeed, it will benefit all the fans of RRT. A successful product launch at a large and timely event (or at the least a large amount of publicity/public venue) like Gen Con Indy will mean that there will be more players of RRT nationally, which means:

1) More sales of the RRT game, leading to a higher probability of future expansion packs and more product in general that you want.

2) More people playing the game all over the nation (and indeed the world), thus making it easier for you to find someone to play with.

3) With more people having the game, game store managers will be more willing to both stock the game and its future expansions, making it easier and cheaper for you to buy those products.

4) The higher demand for the game and ther greater number of players will lead those same game store managers to make table space more easily available to play, giving you a place where you can play.

5) The more people who start playing RRT, the more likely it is that organized events like tourneys and such will come into existence, events that many of you will enjoy.

So yes, it is a broken promise, and indeed a very valid reason for disappointment. In fact, I do not want to put down or make light of anyone's feelings here - in my eyes you have every right to be disappointed, bitter and angry. But in the long term, I think Kevin is making the right decision, not only for himself and his company, but also for the fans as a group.

All I'd ask is to, in the midst of your fully justified feelings of disappointment and anger, ask yourself 'does this plan have the potential in the long term to help make things better?'

Just my two cents.

Thank you IO for being reasonable......
As some of you have acknowledged, I am not a Palladium apologist, and will say that this, the RRT project, has not been anything close to perfect..... Let me remind you of a few things-
1- This is their first foray into this type of project.
2- They partnered with another group, which means they were not in complete control.
3- They have publicly acknowledged some issues with said partner, mostly in the communication department.
4- They have been open about said issues
5- They have said publicly that they relied on the other companies expertise, but have had to correct certain issues that seem obvious to lay people....
6- As has been stated above, they are not lying at all- product will be shipped to Kickstarter backers first- just because they have physical product at GenCon before receipt of product does not change this fact- Does the timing suck- Yes. Does it go against the previous statement- no....

In end, to quote IO, I agree....."All I'd ask is to, in the midst of your fully justified feelings of disappointment and anger, ask yourself 'does this plan have the potential in the long term to help make things better?' " The answer is yes....
As always, my opinion.....

[Giant2005]

Be reasonable guys - Gencon is pretty much sales central for that sort of product. Do you really think it is reasonable for them to have the ability to sell their product at the biggest annual market available to them and choose not to?
I can empathize with feeling annoyed if your intention when joining the Kickstarter was more to have the game before everyone else rather than helping fund the game or getting milestone bonuses and discounts but I will never understand it. I don't see how it matters who gets it first - you get more of it, you get it cheaper and you get the opportunity to have it at all. So what if other people get it too? So what if Palladium gets more sales? Neither of those "issues" actually effect you in the slightest.

[NMI]

Locked for Review