Postmortem of Phantasm Gamer's Equinox

[jaymz]

Postmortem of Phantasm Gamer's Equinox:

Not very good sadly. Though it was more or less what I was expecting unfortunately.

Saturday morning's Robotech RPG session had 3 attendees out a possible 6. They had a good time and enjoyed the scenario. (Recon of a Zentraedi wreck). All were new to the RPG though they knew what Robotech was. No one seem interested in what we were playing or even stopped by to observe while we played.

Sunday's session had no attendees at all. I ended up trying demos of a couple of other games.

By comparison my Battletech session Saturday night had 4 of a possible 6 attendees and at least 12 people who stopped to watch to some degree.

The disheartening thing of it was seeing the other tables full with others around them watching. There were the usual suspects of D&D 4th and Pathfinder but there were also old out of date out of print games that were full and had people wishing they had gotten in on the game.

At this point I am not even sure I want to bother running Palladium RPGs locally anymore honestly. There is just so little interest in them it is.......well it is a kick in the teeth to some degree.

Now I have to wait to see if I can actually get my RRT stuff when it was promised for (June/July) otherwise I may just not bother representing Palladium in any way at my local con in September as the work put into it ends up being worthless and a waste of time.

[Jorel]

Bummer.

[DhAkael]

The disheartening thing of it was seeing the other tables full with others around them watching. There were the usual suspects of D&D 4th and Pathfinder but there were also old out of date out of print games that were full and had people wishing they had gotten in on the game.

At this point I am not even sure I want to bother running Palladium RPGs locally anymore honestly. There is just so little interest in them it is.......well it is a kick in the teeth to some degree.

With some of the worst P/R of any company, a release schedual that is laughable and due to word-of-mouth by the "me me me me it's all about me!" generation that has suckled on the teet of White-Wolf and the gimped versions of D&D (anything past 2nd ed. is NOT D&D), yeah... PBooks games have become pariah. Sad really.
As I have posted I don't know how many times before, there is only ONE store in all of core Toronto that will even THINK of carrying Pbooks material. The Silver Snail; once the bastion of representative RPG sales (heck they even carried game-lines from companies that only lasted 6 months) stopped carrying ANYTHING PB nearly 6 years ago... the last books they carried were, suprisingly, the Robotech line. The whole 'Manga sized for your convience' was the nail-in-coffin.

-sigh-

I could go on with the tales of woe, but I'm not gonna. It's not JUST PB's fault (though at least 50% IS) , it's also the generation of self-gratification munch-hounds that flock to some of the games already mentioned. For THAT I blame EX-Bocks.

[NMI]

Where your games as equally advertised as the other games? Was your table as visible as the others? Do you think the other tables were louder or did something unique to gather attention?

[jaymz]

All games are advertised and promoted equally on the conventions website even schedule. Noise was about even across all tables. I actually think I had a good table roughly in the centre if the room. People just showed no interest. I had the books out for display too.

Just a not a palladium event. I had a dimilar experience the last time I ran rifts at this con as well.

[jaymz]

Hopefully I will be able to run RRT in September.

[Forar]

Oh, 4E? That would've been fun.

Sorry to hear you had trouble keeping a full table, Jaymz. Better luck in September.

[Jorel]

All games are advertised and promoted equally on the conventions website even schedule. Noise was about even across all tables. I actually think I had a good table roughly in the centre if the room. People just showed no interest. I had the books out for display too.

Just a not a palladium event. I had a dimilar experience the last time I ran rifts at this con as well.

Maybe you were supposed to sing and dance on the table with a lightshow to draw a crowd and then when you had them all entranced you could pull the old bait and switch and reveal they were all sitting at a table and had agreed to play some Palladium games.

[Spinachcat]

Demoing Palladium RPGs is a tough sell at conventions or local game days. You have to do more advertising and more promotion that when running D&D, Shadowrun, Vampire, Cthulhu, etc. When I have run Mechanoids, Rifts or Splicers, I've put up posters around the con that was all about Gunplay vs. Alien/Robot Invasion that had pregens and the game was for new players.

I completely understand Jaymz frustration. Most younger gamers never heard of Palladium and most older gamers often have developed a negative opinion (for whatever reason). New games are always a hard sell, but its much worse with crunchy games with complex systems, especially if you run RAW.

These days, I am only comfortable demoing stuff that's fast and furious with minimal rules. That's why if I run Rifts, its going to be my "Rifts/Mechanoids" crossover where I can use my streamlined version of the basic Mechanoids rules. I enjoy Palladium Fantasy, but I can't argue for PF over most other fantasy RPGs on the market today. I am futzing with Nightbane because I love that game's ideas, but I need it streamlined to do a successful demo.

Unfortunately, the PR around RTT is so dismal and Harmony Gold blew their momentum a long time ago. If I do RTT demos, it will be all about playing a mecha battle, drawing in Battletech fans and some old Robotech fans who may be willing to give a fast wargame a try. Of course, until we see the actual rules, it will be hard to tell if RTT will actually work nicely for a demo. Based on the videos so far, I have hope for gameplay.

[Colonel Wolfe]

Sad to hear this Jaymz, it's alot like my experience back when the Robotech RPg was re-released. a few people stopped by to ask if it was done by a new company, since the products look different, but weren't interested after I said it was still done with the MDC system.
my White-Wolf games never have issues finding a full group. but that just comes down to Market shares and popularity... to many game stores stopped carrying the products, so many gamers think Palladium went the way of TSR, FASA or WestEnd...

[Jorel]

Demoing Palladium RPGs is a tough sell at conventions or local game days. You have to do more advertising and more promotion that when running D&D, Shadowrun, Vampire, Cthulhu, etc. When I have run Mechanoids, Rifts or Splicers, I've put up posters around the con that was all about Gunplay vs. Alien/Robot Invasion that had pregens and the game was for new players.

I completely understand Jaymz frustration. Most younger gamers never heard of Palladium and most older gamers often have developed a negative opinion (for whatever reason). New games are always a hard sell, but its much worse with crunchy games with complex systems, especially if you run RAW.

These days, I am only comfortable demoing stuff that's fast and furious with minimal rules. That's why if I run Rifts, its going to be my "Rifts/Mechanoids" crossover where I can use my streamlined version of the basic Mechanoids rules. I enjoy Palladium Fantasy, but I can't argue for PF over most other fantasy RPGs on the market today. I am futzing with Nightbane because I love that game's ideas, but I need it streamlined to do a successful demo.

Unfortunately, the PR around RTT is so dismal and Harmony Gold blew their momentum a long time ago. If I do RTT demos, it will be all about playing a mecha battle, drawing in Battletech fans and some old Robotech fans who may be willing to give a fast wargame a try. Of course, until we see the actual rules, it will be hard to tell if RTT will actually work nicely for a demo. Based on the videos so far, I have hope for gameplay.

Sounds like a common problem and it is one that PB needs to address and not the MAs that try to demo the game.

[Tiree]

I was quite surprised not to see a Palladium Game in the last local con - Dundracon. I looked, even in the open gaming. I got into some other great games, mainly pickup ones. But I was shocked with how little coverage Palladium had, even in the dealer room.

[Razzinold]

Demoing Palladium RPGs is a tough sell at conventions or local game days. You have to do more advertising and more promotion that when running D&D, Shadowrun, Vampire, Cthulhu, etc. When I have run Mechanoids, Rifts or Splicers, I've put up posters around the con that was all about Gunplay vs. Alien/Robot Invasion that had pregens and the game was for new players.

I completely understand Jaymz frustration. Most younger gamers never heard of Palladium and most older gamers often have developed a negative opinion (for whatever reason). New games are always a hard sell, but its much worse with crunchy games with complex systems, especially if you run RAW.

These days, I am only comfortable demoing stuff that's fast and furious with minimal rules. That's why if I run Rifts, its going to be my "Rifts/Mechanoids" crossover where I can use my streamlined version of the basic Mechanoids rules. I enjoy Palladium Fantasy, but I can't argue for PF over most other fantasy RPGs on the market today. I am futzing with Nightbane because I love that game's ideas, but I need it streamlined to do a successful demo.

Unfortunately, the PR around RTT is so dismal and Harmony Gold blew their momentum a long time ago. If I do RTT demos, it will be all about playing a mecha battle, drawing in Battletech fans and some old Robotech fans who may be willing to give a fast wargame a try. Of course, until we see the actual rules, it will be hard to tell if RTT will actually work nicely for a demo. Based on the videos so far, I have hope for gameplay.

I find that Younger/New to RPG players have never heard of Palladium/Rifts is because they have never seen any of their product in stores. When I talked with a guy at my work he said he got started way back when by pure chance. He already played D&D and saw the RMB and picked it up, thumbed through it and that it was cool so he bought it. With no product on store shelves the company is relying on their current fan base to promote for them, as well as whatever advertising they may or may not do/any conventions they attend (but not everyone goes to those).

As for the older generation, everyone I run into I'm surprised that they used to be a Rifts player, key phrase there used to be. The guys at my local comic shop (World's Collide), guys at my work, strangers that have overheard me talking about it in public all used to play. Everyone has moved on to other games and nobody is willing to come to my Rifts game, however, they all invite me to join their D&D or Pathfinder games (including the strangers met in the mall).

It's almost getting to the point that I may finally give in and try another game line, just so I can get a steady game going again. Right now I am Gming a game for my wife and daughter, they are having a great time (as am I) but I would like to play with a larger group, or a separate group that didn't include my young daughter so the game could have more of a mature rating.

[bielmic]

I was quite surprised not to see a Palladium Game in the last local con - Dundracon. I looked, even in the open gaming. I got into some other great games, mainly pickup ones. But I was shocked with how little coverage Palladium had, even in the dealer room.

The last time I was at gencon, the flagship rifts line had a grand total of 2 or 3 games scheduled for the entire con in the prereg book and that was pre-Crisis of TreacheryTM post-RUE so that is obviously a bit out of date. Nonetheless, Palladium was in a stronger position back then and it surprised me that so few people ran games. I don't think we'll see public posting of the info but I wonder how many of the events this year with the big push to run games will actually happen. If things keep going the way they're going, you can pretty much scratch all the robotech games off the schedule. Hopefully Palladium can at least get out NG2 by then and another book to have something new to show. The detroit con last year seemed from the murmurs to be a relative bust with desperate calls for people to run games last minute and very little turnout from the few posts about it. Heck, the Robotech minis apparently didn't even sell out as the ebay speculators weren't there to buy multiples!

[bielmic]

As for the older generation, everyone I run into I'm surprised that they used to be a Rifts player, key phrase there used to be. The guys at my local comic shop (World's Collide), guys at my work, strangers that have overheard me talking about it in public all used to play. Everyone has moved on to other games and nobody is willing to come to my Rifts game, however, they all invite me to join their D&D or Pathfinder games (including the strangers met in the mall).

That is my experience as well. I haven't met in person for the past decade a single current Palladium gamer but instead only ex-gamers who seem to have left for the same reasons (despite my sample being from two different states in two different regions of the US). For a group that is supposedly only 1% of the poll conducted secretly by palladium in 2012, they seem to make up a fairly large chunk of the population people post about in their own personal polls. Instead of lumping them into a tiny (and IMO unrealistic) minority of "not fans" or "not customers", Palladium should instead look at them as LOST fans/customers and potential FUTURE fans/customers if the right steps are taken. In any case, good luck with the Rifts rock, Sisyphus... it's an uphill battle to say the least.

[Forar]

From a glance at the site, it doesn't seem that there'll be a RRT presence at Adepticon this year (I believe last year ND was there to run demos) which is a shame, but apparently there's a sizable lineup of people running Palladium RPGs and RRT at Gencon, which is a mere 132 days away, so hopefully that all comes together nicely.

[Razzinold]

As for the older generation, everyone I run into I'm surprised that they used to be a Rifts player, key phrase there used to be. The guys at my local comic shop (World's Collide), guys at my work, strangers that have overheard me talking about it in public all used to play. Everyone has moved on to other games and nobody is willing to come to my Rifts game, however, they all invite me to join their D&D or Pathfinder games (including the strangers met in the mall).

That is my experience as well. I haven't met in person for the past decade a single current Palladium gamer but instead only ex-gamers who seem to have left for the same reasons (despite my sample being from two different states in two different regions of the US). For a group that is supposedly only 1% of the poll conducted secretly by palladium in 2012, they seem to make up a fairly large chunk of the population people post about in their own personal polls. Instead of lumping them into a tiny (and IMO unrealistic) minority of "not fans" or "not customers", Palladium should instead look at them as LOST fans/customers and potential FUTURE fans/customers if the right steps are taken. In any case, good luck with the Rifts rock, Sisyphus... it's an uphill battle to say the least.

True, the only people I know in real life that are still active players are Myself, wife and daughter. If jaymz is playing with the same group of people he used to then I can add 2 more real life people. As a stretch I suppose I could add my old (and original) GM Paul and brother Darren because they jump back into my game off and on, and it's been like that for the past 10 years or so.
One other guy is a former coworker, Serge, he took a new job and moved away so he had to leave our game. He stills plays in a PBP game but hasn't had any luck finding a new group out in Milton. He's still trying to convince me to run a Skype game so he can join in.

So all total that is 9 all together, myself included, but that is only if jaymz, Steve, and Erik are still in a group and I count the two drop ins and PBP player. Great, now I feel sad!

[Forar]

My group used to occasionally break a dozen players. It wasn't easy, but the DM made due the best they could. Combat dragged on, but we enjoyed large scale tactical battles mixed into our scheming, exploring and general role playing. Usual group size was typically more in the "GM + 5-7 players" range.

To my knowledge, zero of them still play any Palladium games, and aside from one "play by post" a decade ago, haven't in essentially the same time frame. Most have sold, given away or tossed their books, and my collection has dwindled from "nearly everything Palladium has ever produced" to "around 20 books, and a dozen more I've been trying to sell off for half a year, with the best offer being $50 for the whole lot", in a city with a population in the millions (as in, this isn't some two horse town with 500 people on a good day, surely SOMEONE still plays out here...)

In terms of supply and demand, there isn't much of a supply (based on how few stores seem to carry the books out here), but the demand seems to be all but negligible.

[Razzinold]

@Forar As for the people that do still play they seem to be spread too far apart. For instance if you and I wanted to game together then one of us would have to drive 40-45 minutes each way (depending where in the city you live it could be less or even more) and I know it may not seem like much to other people but after the stress of navigating the city, possibly paying for parking and extra money spent on gas, the cons sort of out way the pros of traveling that far to game.

[Forar]

Certainly good points.

Though to be clear, I'm not looking for a PB group. Not that I thought you were offering, just sayin'. My friends and I spent a good decade'ish playing Rifts mixed with Robotech, Nightbane, PFRPG, Systems Failure, Heroes Unlimited and whatever else we could get our hands on.

But these days? I'm back due to Robotech Tactics.

Y'know, whenever it delivers.

Someday.

Maybe.

[zyanitevp]

I was quite surprised not to see a Palladium Game in the last local con - Dundracon. I looked, even in the open gaming. I got into some other great games, mainly pickup ones. But I was shocked with how little coverage Palladium had, even in the dealer room.

The last time I was at gencon, the flagship rifts line had a grand total of 2 or 3 games scheduled for the entire con in the prereg book and that was pre-Crisis of TreacheryTM post-RUE so that is obviously a bit out of date. Nonetheless, Palladium was in a stronger position back then and it surprised me that so few people ran games. I don't think we'll see public posting of the info but I wonder how many of the events this year with the big push to run games will actually happen. If things keep going the way they're going, you can pretty much scratch all the robotech games off the schedule. Hopefully Palladium can at least get out NG2 by then and another book to have something new to show. The detroit con last year seemed from the murmurs to be a relative bust with desperate calls for people to run games last minute and very little turnout from the few posts about it. Heck, the Robotech minis apparently didn't even sell out as the ebay speculators weren't there to buy multiples!

I will tell you that this GenCon will be vastly different!! This is the first GenCon with MA Coordinator involvement, and the MA's and other GM's have really stepped up!! Thanks to Gary (ingexfurymonsterhunter) Miller and Jeff (NMI) Ruiz, we will have a record # of GM's running games at GenCon!!! Make sure you check it out if you can!

[jreece06]

At anime north, Kevin was the first of honour. Still, other than Carmen running tactics, there were no rifts games going on.

Kevin himself was going to run one.

This isn't about gm attitudes. No one is more positive than ks.

It's about lack of interest in older games, which becomes lack of knowledge in younger ones.

[jreece06]

Forar, are there any stores in the gta that stock palladium? I live in the beaches and haven't found anything here or downtown that does more Than order at request...

[Forar]

I will tell you that this GenCon will be vastly different!! This is the first GenCon with MA Coordinator involvement, and the MA's and other GM's have really stepped up!! Thanks to Gary (ingexfurymonsterhunter) Miller and Jeff (NMI) Ruiz, we will have a record # of GM's running games at GenCon!!! Make sure you check it out if you can!

Not to be a wet blanket, but based on the topic at hand, having GMs is only the first step.

The next will be seeing whether or not the community responds by playing.

I hope they do. It'd be nice to have that hard work rewarded with some fun games, be they experienced players or people new to Palladium systems.

But having the games and even advertising them is just the beginning.

[Forar]

Forar, are there any stores in the gta that stock palladium? I live in the beaches and haven't found anything here or downtown that does more Than order at request...

I believe the Hairy Tarantula on Yonge street stocks some, though it's been ages since I was in there and can't say I did more than glance at that shelf.

Otherwise, no, none of my usual shops carry Palladium books. I can't speak to which ones work with a distributor that can acquire them, as I haven't ordered a book since I used to pre-order them another city and fifteen years ago.

[jaymz]

Let me get somethign corrected here my "disillusionment with the product and the company"is actually more with the company and its policies and practices and not the product itself. You should know this as I am not one of the people screaming for a rewrite ot rules and and such (just a clean up and better explanation/integration). In all my years there is only one book I would ever say someone should never ever get. Beyond that one they are varying degrees of ok to amazing. (Hell there are parts of England and Africa I actually like where most people can't stand either of them).

As for the rest well, I respectfully disagree. When I have organizer at a loss as to why I didn't get more players with so much positive push and promotion that I had done for and up to it (he had seen my posters in the shops etc and seen me working the crowd prior to, after, and during events), I can honestly say I think my attitude was pretty damned good overall. Attitude going in was hopeful, positive, and enthusiastic. The whole reason I chose Robotech was the possible higher recognition factor that might counteract the low turnout of previous years where Iran Rifts (which my initial expectations were based upon). My feelings afterward are posted above. Even the fact I only got 3 players on day one didn't get me down. I had players that was the main thing. It was seeing ZERO interest let alone players on day 2 when every other table had no seats available and people standing around watching (watching others play instead of getting into an open game themselves) that got me disappointed and wondering why the hell I bother.

Now will I run events at the con in September? Likely. I am just really questioning whether I should put this kind of effort into Palladium RPGs for it. I am hopeful I will have my RRT minis and such when promised otherwise I won't even be able to run that come September. We will see how I feel when event applications time comes around.

[Forar]

Which book do you truly hate? There were several I wasn't fans of (I'm with you on Africa, but England was a bit of a flop for me/my group), but I'm curious which one managed to get your ire.

And RRT in September? Given that delivery is currently slated for July, and assuming we get our boxes in mid August (time in transit), that'd give you roughly a month and a half (apparently the Sept Phantasm is at the end of the month) to assemble a demo worth of figures. Totally doable! 6'ish weeks for 12'ish models? 2 models per 7 days? (less if you do a couple destroids instead of VTs, but I imagine people want to show that figure off and how it plays)

Not a problem.

Well, probably not a problem.

[jaymz]

PM'ed it.

[Forar]

Man, there's a sizable number of us Ontario based folks here.

[jaymz]

Yeah there are a couple of others I know of as well but as was pointed out....we are pretty spread out unfortunately.

[jreece06]

At one point, there was a nice PB community in Owen sound... But I think most of us have moved around since those glorious years

[jaymz]

^ I have met him and his significant other. Good people

[jaymz]

Thanks for that Razz.

No problem. I'm not taking your side and I'm not taking Liam's side. I am simply stating facts, well facts in my opinion anyway, of things I constantly witness.

I love Palladium I am always trying to find new people to join my game but....it is what it is. Look how many of us are in the GTA (or all of Ontario), yet none of us game with each other (well maybe some do but on a whole I believe that to be accurate). Most (if not all) of us in Ontario (GTA 100% for sure) can even find product, or have to go to extreme lengths to do so.

I will never turn my back completely on PB, but I was serious about possibly buying Pathfinder this weekend. It doesn't mean I will stop my current Rifts game with my wife and daughter (or trying to find more to join) but it does mean that my wife and I will be getting together with many other Pathfinder players on a regular basis.

Didn't think you were dude You are nothing if not at least honest

[Razzinold]

Thanks for that Razz.

No problem. I'm not taking your side and I'm not taking Liam's side. I am simply stating facts, well facts in my opinion anyway, of things I constantly witness.

I love Palladium I am always trying to find new people to join my game but....it is what it is. Look how many of us are in the GTA (or all of Ontario), yet none of us game with each other (well maybe some do but on a whole I believe that to be accurate). Most (if not all) of us in Ontario (GTA 100% for sure) can even find product, or have to go to extreme lengths to do so.

I will never turn my back completely on PB, but I was serious about possibly buying Pathfinder this weekend. It doesn't mean I will stop my current Rifts game with my wife and daughter (or trying to find more to join) but it does mean that my wife and I will be getting together with many other Pathfinder players on a regular basis.

Didn't think you were dude You are nothing if not at least honest

Oh so I'm nothing eh? Well that hurt my feelings so I reported you.

j/k

I didn't make that statement to hurt any feelings, or show any favourtism, I just wanted people who read it to know that I was offering honest and unbiased statements of how I perceive the state of Palladium.

I find that too many people try and post things as facts, doesn't matter if it's in support of PB or against PB, and that is why people like NMI have to call them on it. I don't state anything as fact (regarding their polices/practices) all I say is how I perceive them personally. However I feel that I can say things like "my local shop doesn't carry new product and refuses to order any" without it being untrue/negative criticism because it is my store who is unwilling to order and that is a fact.

[jaymz]

Sadly World's Collide is not the only store but the typical store.....and the area you live is the 4th largest urban area on the continent which makes it more sad.....

[Steve Carroll]

I am from London Ontario and finding ANY group is hard. Especially once you tell them that Drugs and Alcohol are not allowed in my home...

Also, a couple of places here in London stock PB Books, but only the most recent releases. And they refuse to take Pre-Orders for them.

[jaymz]

You are a lucky man Steve having more than one store carrying the product.

[Jerell]

As I'm reading through this thread, I can't help but think Palladium Fantasy and/or Rifts would do well to have a streamlined, light version of the rules for demos, Cons and promotions. I'm thinking like Hackmaster Basic did for Hackmaster. Something to let people see what it's about, and something GMs can teach to newbs fairly quickly, so they can get to the fun part.

While my group started with Robotech in the early 90s, besides every Palladium game, we've played some AD&D, 3E (Kingdoms of Kalamar), 4E, HM4 and HMB. Hackmaster has been the only non Palladium game that's ever gave Palladium Fantasy serious competition in my group. The rest we tried and were rather indifferent to. And sometimes you just need some Robotech or Rifts so you can send 10 missiles at something to blow it sky high. That being said Palladium Fantasy, I feel, could do well with a Hackmaster Basic type introduction for new gamers, or people new to PFRPG. Just a thought.

[Diamond_Spear]

To steal a quote from "Good Morning Vietnam": Rifts is in more dire need of a second edition than any RPG in history. Or if you like I could quote Albert Einstein and remind everyone that insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.

Unless Palladium changes the way it does business, hits it's release dates, revamps it's aging system and finds a way to break into other media then at best it will maintain the little market share it has and will more likely slowly wither away.

I know that people will point to the RTT game as Palladium branching out but that's in the process of turning into a Charlie Foxtrot due to missed release dates and very limited communication from Palladium, ND and HG. What will save Palladium Books is an internal realignment and complete shift in management strategies. I don't think this will happen. And because I love me some Rifts and Nightbane that Makes me very sad.

[Jorel]

To steal a quote from "Good Morning Vietnam": Rifts is in more dire need of a second edition than any RPG in history. Or if you like I could quote Albert Einstein and remind everyone that insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.

Unless Palladium changes the way it does business, hits it's release dates, revamps it's aging system and finds a way to break into other media then at best it will maintain the little market share it has and will more likely slowly wither away.

I know that people will point to the RTT game as Palladium branching out but that's in the process of turning into a Charlie Foxtrot due to missed release dates and very limited communication from Palladium, ND and HG. What will save Palladium Books is an internal realignment and complete shift in management strategies. I don't think this will happen. And because I love me some Rifts and Nightbane that Makes me very sad.

I agree and for like the tenth time lately I hear the Metallica song in my head as I read this and similar posts...Sad but True.

[jaymz]

I always give to Metallica references

[NMI]

Topic returned pruned of previous off-topic comments.

[calto40k]

Jaymz and I shared similar results at different cons. I'm honestly quite disheartened, but we still keep doing it because we love the games. I might not always see eye to eye with many people on the FotM, or the company itself, but that is neither here nor there. The problems I saw this weekend were the lack of recognition with younger gamers who have been brought up on the D20 systems, a general lack of interest in gaming, and more so a lot of people have had issues with the delays for products.

[Jorel]

We're still glad you are willing to put forth the effort and better luck next time.

[Daniel Stoker]

I appreciate the time and effort you both put out for Rifts.


Daniel Stoker

[Eashamahel]

Lots of folks live in Ontario on this forum!

The Hairy Tarantula has a pretty big selection of palladium products, but they are for the most part older books. They have a big stock of old Rifters, as well as lots of used books. I haven't seen them with a new RIFTS/Palladium book, but in truth the last new RIFTS book I've seen in real life was NGR2 in Kingston, and that was the only RIFTS book in the store (it had been special ordered for a customer).

It's interesting that a 'rules light' version of Palladium is an idea to help at conventions, considering one of the big selling points I've always heard about Palladium was that there rules were simple and to the point, not filled with charts/rolls, ect. I mean, if you go through the books and collect all the miscellaneous and hidden rules then there certainly are more than there seem to be, but so often I hear (well, read...) Palladium fans bemoaning the overly heavy rules systems of things like Pathfinder.


That all said, a 'rules light' or 'rules streamlined' version of RIFTS/Palladium in general would likely be an amazing project. Not a re-vamping of the rules, or a re-doing, but just collecting all of the various rules, putting them in some reasonable order, removing the contradictory ones, simplifying the overly-complicated/just-don't-work ones (I'm looking at you, Simultaneous Attack...), ect.

[jaymz]

Yeah now if only all us Ontarians lived close enough together to play.....

[Razzinold]

Yeah now if only all us Ontarians lived close enough together to play.....

You could always organize a Canadian version, not that you should exclude any other country, version of the Unofficial Palladium Open House.

I'm sure people would attend, it's not like some of us live that far apart.

I can understand not driving from Peterborough to Toronto, or vice versa, on a weekly or even monthly basis, but it's nothing to meet somewhere in the middle for a onetime weekend of gaming.

[Eashamahel]

If I had of been a little more on top of it I would have gone to the last convention KS was at here in Ontario, as my wife and her friends went and I just stayed home, but next time something Palladium happens around these parts I'll be there.

[Forar]

I wonder if they'll be at Anime North again this year?

Otherwise, I can't think of any local conventions they attend. Don't recall seeing their name associated with any of the big ones like Comic Con or Fan Expo.