Cover recycling

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Tor
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Cover recycling

Unread post by Tor »

First the cover of https://palladium-store.com/1001/produc ... er-16.html was used for Shadows of Light, and now the cover of https://palladium-store.com/1001/produc ... er-45.html is being used for https://palladium-store.com/1001/produc ... eaper.html ?

I know it's great art and all that, but it can get kind of confusing for people when trying to quickly locate their books in a pile when this occurs.

I mean... art gets reused enough within a single book, and even across multiple books... I'd actually rather see a Rifter 9.5 style cover than this.
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Re: Cover recycling

Unread post by The Beast »

Yeah, I agree. Rifters shouldn't use a normal book cover. You have the potential of people getting confused when purchasing them.
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Re: Cover recycling

Unread post by MADMANMIKE »

Shadows of Light is disavowed non-canon material, so there's no issue there in my book.. I believe the only other images to be used on more than one cover were the original cover of RIFTS: Africa (a new cover is on the current printing so the old was used on a Rifter) and the cover of Chaos Earth (previewed on a Rifter before the final book came out)..
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Re: Cover recycling

Unread post by Jorel »

I feel like I have seen more than that. I could be wrong.
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Re: Cover recycling

Unread post by Daniel Stoker »

Shadows of Light was disavowed? :?


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Re: Cover recycling

Unread post by Jorel »

I've heard Mike say that before. Does he say that because it is out of print? There are a few books out of print like that. Systems Failure is one I can think of. I wonder why he would say that?
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Re: Cover recycling

Unread post by MADMANMIKE »

Sorry, not-canon hasn't been said exactly, Warwolf is the face of Nightbane, his take is Here.

It's the only book I never bought and am glad of it. Having looked through it the license taken by the author was far outside his bounds, imo.
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Re: Cover recycling

Unread post by Jorel »

I was under the impression the Nightbane/spawn was created by CJ Carella. I had no idea Mark Oberle had so much control over it. News to me. I thought it was at least up to Kevin Siembieda to determine what was officially Palladium canon and what not.
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Re: Cover recycling

Unread post by drewkitty ~..~ »

Tor wrote:First the cover of https://palladium-store.com/1001/produc ... er-16.html was used for Shadows of Light, and now the cover of https://palladium-store.com/1001/produc ... er-45.html is being used for https://palladium-store.com/1001/produc ... eaper.html ?

I know it's great art and all that, but it can get kind of confusing for people when trying to quickly locate their books in a pile when this occurs.

I mean... art gets reused enough within a single book, and even across multiple books... I'd actually rather see a Rifter 9.5 style cover than this.

Missed one. This https://palladium-store.com/1001/produc ... er-62.html was the cover to PFRPG1.

I don't mind it so long as one of the pair is a Rifter.
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Re: Cover recycling

Unread post by NMI »

Jorel wrote:I was under the impression the Nightbane/spawn was created by CJ Carella. I had no idea Mark Oberle had so much control over it. News to me. I thought it was at least up to Kevin Siembieda to determine what was officially Palladium canon and what not.

Mark is not so much the "face" of Nightbane/SPAWN as he and DLDC are the last people to write for the line.
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Re: Cover recycling

Unread post by MADMANMIKE »

NMI wrote:
Jorel wrote:I was under the impression the Nightbane/spawn was created by CJ Carella. I had no idea Mark Oberle had so much control over it. News to me. I thought it was at least up to Kevin Siembieda to determine what was officially Palladium canon and what not.

Mark is not so much the "face" of Nightbane/SPAWN as he and DLDC are the last people to write for the line.


Likewise, C.J. Carella has not done work for Palladium in nearly 20 years..
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Re: Cover recycling

Unread post by Jorel »

So now it is the freelancers that decide what other freelancers work is considered canon. I see.

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Re: Cover recycling

Unread post by The Dark Elf »

MADMANMIKE wrote:Shadows of Light is disavowed non-canon material, so there's no issue there in my book.. I believe the only other images to be used on more than one cover were the original cover of RIFTS: Africa (a new cover is on the current printing so the old was used on a Rifter) and the cover of Chaos Earth (previewed on a Rifter before the final book came out)..

Fear the Reaper was a Rifter cover too.
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Re: Cover recycling

Unread post by Jorel »

I'm clarifying what you are telling me. I never said anything was or was not fact. I am being told it is Mark Oberle who is a freelancer, not an employee, who determines what is canon in Nightspawn. I did not make that claim. Mike did. Maybe have him check his "facts". I believe the only person that really determines what ends up as "canon" in any of these book is Kevin. If he doesn't think something fits, he can remove it. No one else has that final authority, least that is what I thought. Now I am told any freelancer can determine what is canon by other freelance artists as long a they write the majority of the current material. Understood.
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Re: Cover recycling

Unread post by Tor »

MADMANMIKE wrote:Shadows of Light is disavowed non-canon material, so there's no issue there in my book.

There is in mine. I paid for it, it's FOREVER canon. If it's not canon with a future NB sourcebook, this simply means that they are alternate dimensions of Nightbane with different properties and NPCs. SurvGuide seems to be going in the Dark Conversions direction of 'we're people not FlessOnes' anywho.

MADMANMIKE wrote:I believe the only other images to be used on more than one cover were the original cover of RIFTS: Africa (a new cover is on the current printing so the old was used on a Rifter) and the cover of Chaos Earth (previewed on a Rifter before the final book came out)..

Hm, lesse...
*Rifters 1+5+13 reused art from RMB
*Rifter 16 reused in SoL
*Rifter 18 reused in ChaosEarth
*Rifter 20 is a sweet colored version of some art from Vampire Kingdoms which I totally am okay with since it's an enhancement
*Rifter 21 is same, there was SAMAS art like this in RMB but I think it got souped up (or did we just get souped-down versions in RMB of this original art? dunno)
*Rifter 24 is just a zoom-in on Beyond the Supernatural 2nd edition's cover
*Rifter 40 is all I can figure you mean by Rifts Africa's cover, guess I have the later one with the close-up of the Necron beast
*Rifter 45 = Fear the Reaper
*Rifter 62 = PRPGrevised cover

I think that's it?

The Dark Elf wrote:Fear the Reaper was a Rifter cover too.
This was mentioned in the first post :)

MADMANMIKE wrote:Having looked through it the license taken by the author was far outside his bounds, imo.
No, it wasn't, authors can submit whatever they like. If they pass beyond the bounds Kevin wants, he can turn down the book, like how he turned down Psyscape. If he put it through, it's endorsement, and that isn't something you should be able to back out of.

Why is it that the first pages of these controversial books are heaping with praise from Kev initially?

SA: "an outstanding addition to the Rifts World"
SA2: "another epic Rifts book"
SOL: "Special Thanks to Jason Vey for taking us back into the shadowy world of the Nightbane"

I mean... you get the impression the book got read and approved of. I can accept that sometimes editors might skim a book and later regret pushing something through without dwelling on the details that bother them later, but they should just live with the ramifications and adapt to the established reality rather than crapping on the canon we've purchased and saying it doesn't count.

Any new books that say an old book isn't canon are only right in the sense of a given dimension. All old books are still valid in their original dimensions, otherwise canon means nothing and we may as well not consider the 'current' canon to be valid since it might be invalidated in a couple years by the newest craze.

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:https://palladium-store.com/1001/product/162-The-Rifter-62.html was the cover to PFRPG1.
PRPGr actually. The original PRPG was that sweet black+red cover, Revised was this Riftered one, and it only became "Palladium Fantasy" by the second edition in '96.

There actually is no "PFRPG1" :)
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Re: Cover recycling

Unread post by Jorel »

I would say it is on the publisher for printing the book, I would never blame the author.
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Re: Cover recycling

Unread post by NMI »

Let's keep in mind that unless you are a current employee/staffer/freelancer, what you might "know" is merely your "opinion" and not necessarily "Fact".

You may believe wholeheartedly that what you "know". is accurate, but unless it comes from the Palladium Books office, all you have is your opinion.

Also keep in mind, that even though someone disagrees with you or you with them, that does not make them a "troll". It is not enough to simply "disagree" that makes someone a "troll", it is how they act, comment, etc... If you tell me the sky is blue and I tell you "no, it's plaid", that does not make either of us trolls.
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Re: Cover recycling

Unread post by Tor »

Even the opinions coming from freelancer/employee/staff folk are sometimes suspect, which is why sometimes disagreements come down to hierarchies. Besides 'Kev outranks everyone' I'm not sure what the hierarchy is though. Like if I were to compare Bill Coffin to Erick Wujcik to CJ Carella I wouldn't know what wins.

I really don't want this to be an issue of 'whatever book was published last wins' though. Kinda spits in the face of anyone who bought books in the past to just say they don't exist anymore.
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