Forums of the Megaverse®

Would you like to see Palladium do a Megaverse® Insider “crowdsource funding” offer for every new title released in 2012?

Sure. Why not?

yes, after all but the final edit are done, and if you can adhere to a timeline that you state up front.

What do you mean? Would it all have the same book set up like with Lemuria where you have the multiple editions etc? If so then no I'm not into buying collectables and would just like special editions for 'big' books like we had with RUE not every new sourcebook etc.


Daniel Stoker

I chose option 2, but in reality I would probably buy something for all the Rifts and Nightbane releases.

This should not be standard protocol. Special items only.

It would take away the uniqueness of the offers making them less valuable in the first instance and diluting the amount of cash which consumers will offer out to the insider purchases. Therefore you would expect to make less on each insider offer, possibly generating not enough income.

I think that this would be a risky business strategy which would prove extremely unhealthy for the longevvity of PB's and I could see PB's becoming dependant on these and not tackling normal marketing issues. Then the insider "investment" (I know they are actually pre=order purchases) would decrease each time until you cannot sustain your cash flow even with them.

They need to be limited to be special.

As a compromise there is nothing stopping PB's from offering other editions etc. to generate further income (after initial print), nor PDF formats but not necessarily all of the names included in the covers.

A bit torn, but I voted for the third one, only special projects because if its asked for every time, then it would stop being something fun/helpful and actually get annoying. One thing they could try is to have a vote on which books they should do kickstarters for. Like list some of the *possible* books coming out, let everyone vote on which ones they would be willing to put money in to kickstart, then put kickstarters on the most popular ones. Megaverse in flames is a definite one I think most people will be more than willing to put money down for. A new splicer book, dead reign, night bane, etc I would definitely put money down for, however I have no interest in putting any extra funds for northern gun, because it doesn't interest me and vampire sourcebook because I was a bit disappointed with the last vampire book.

As I mentioned last time, I would love to see an option for a hardback AND PDF combo and a combined reduced price. Paying for BOTH at full price is just too much. Buying a physical copy and putting $10 extra for a PDF seems more than reasonable. Can we have this the next kickstarter (or all upcoming books)?

Edit, meant 3rd not forth

I very much agree with The Dark Elf.

While I'm sure that I would purchase everything no matter what decision was made (being a completist collector with sufficient disposable income), I sincerely believe Palladium will run headlong into "donor fatigue" if this is done very often. There will be many people who tire of the idea, and the amount of support generated with each new Insider offering will be less and less.

Additionally, what made the Lemuria offer particularly attractive was indeed that it was special. The specialness will be diluted if this sort of thing is done regularly.

In my opinion this sort of thing shouldn't be done more than once a year (maybe twice in exceptional circumstances), and then only for very significant product releases (e.g. new lines such as Dead Reign or Chaos Earth introduction, or the kickoff book of a longer series like the Siege on Tolkeen or Minion Wars). Anything else risks turning off the buyers as the specialness and checkbooks are depleted.

Thanks for asking and for your time reading this,
Brent

I like the idea of different levels of Insider. Maybe one is just like a pre-order for regular books, only getting money up front, and another could be special editions. Depending on the book would depend on the type of funding requested.

Sure why not. As long as the next one is handled better than the present one was in order to avoid undue......arguing for lack of a better term. Make sure all aspects of the Insider have been addressed before hand (IE the subject of refunds or trying to have a more hardline date for the book to be out and sticking to it as best you can)

I chose option 2, I'm actually afraid that if it isn't all releases that it will end up being only Rifts titles that receive the treatment because the other settings aren't considered "Special" enough, and Rifts is basically the only PB setting that I DON'T personally like.

I want Land of the damned 3

I would love to be able to buy special editions on everything I buy from Palladium. I buy Heroes Unlimited, After The Bomb, Ninjas & Superspies, Beyond the Supernatural, Nightbane and I'll probably buy WarPath when it comes out.

So for these product lines I say yes for Megaverse® Insider offers / crowdsource funding for all books.

yes number one especially if it frees up the capitol to get the movie and the game going.

honestly this would ruin a lot of things for PB and I'm pretty sure none of us want to see PB go down the drain, most of us players and gms dont have the disposable income to be forced into funding the books we want to make sure they come out hell if you guys want to do that get dimension book 9 out this way before anythingelse

I went with option 3 since its the closest to what I would like to see.

Keep the full Insider options for the special stuff. Event books for existing lines and the intro books of new lines, things like that.

A more limited list of Insider options could be used for just about everything. Really this could easily just be a list of pay-up-front pre-order options. Options for hardback, softback, PDF and maybe a few other minor things for example.

MMmmmmm, just on major books. Nuff said...

Peace,

Dragon Mage.

It would be cool to see a Megaverse Insider for every new release and while I answered the 2nd yes in the pole I do feel I should say this: The Insider deal is exciting because its new. Once every new release begins having an Insider offer (which I think would be cool) the new-ness of it will wear off and sales ->may<- suffer.

That having been said, its hard to know just what the fans will like to see in the Insider deals. I would suggest 1 maybe 2 Insider deals per line (Rifts, Dead Reign, Nightbane, Palladium Fanatasy, Robotech, Beyond the Supernatural, etc.) per year and no more. Maybe an extra special Insider deal for lines that haven't seen any thing new in a while such as Nightbane which hasn't had a new book in over 2 years.

Depending on the state of the economy, I don't think I could afford more than 3-4 a year if they were like Lemuria with the hardcovers, if that. On the other hand I could afford many more (double-triple as many) if they were all just softcovers. So I'd say a couple with Special editions a year and maybe 6-10 other just softcover books at most.

I would do it for every release just to show my support and love for palladium books. It may not be well received for every release by all.

Only if it's for a Online Character creator!

Option Three: Special Events

I'd be alright with a hard-cover being available for each book, where the "Insider Offer" is the only way to get one. When it comes to hundreds of dollars, though, don't dilute your market. The strength of this strategy is to pool money from many donors and use it as venture capital to get something accomplished that might not otherwise happen. When there are multiple Insider offers at once you'll get fewer people per, and this will turn into merely a way to raise a little bit of cash. You have enough existing items on your shelves to keep that kind of cash coming in, and it's all flowing from a limited pool.

When you start to charge extra bucks for special versions of everything you start to look weak and desperate... Aside from donor fatigue, I'd say you'd also see a non-donor fatigue. Who wants to continually buy the least special items, or to suspect that you'll continually cater to a small group of elite donors? There's also a bit of shadiness in that business model, where you might gain a reputation as taking advantage of a core group of fans with addictive personalities. You're the good guys, so don't behave like lobbyists.

I have to agree with Michael on his logic. Especially about and for Nightbane.

Don't do it. Just use it for unique products that you don't want to do. Place all income of the insider towards that item in an account. When you have enough then work on it. Set specific dates after it has been sourced. Offer PDF and POD printing as needed.

I know you love your printer. But the covers peel bone of the reasons to buy hardback. If there was a pod option I hope it's possible the laminate won't peel.

Too much bad blood around pre-orders and release dates, look at all the fustration that Kevin's bad habits are generating amount his best customers with all the negative feedback over the last year, so I'll say NO.

I like this pole better then the other one where you only had yes, no, other(post to explain).

Yes! Definitely do it for ALL new releases. I’ll buy something from every signal one you do. I prefer PDFs by the way, easier to carry around!

I chose option 3. It's nice for certain releases, but I think that relying on it as a crutch could be detrimental in the long run. At a certain point a company should stand on it's own two feet. Otherwise, you may as well take the company and go public with it. I think a crowdsource fund to get Kevin Long to do some artwork for PB again would work for me.

Why is there not a NO option without fine print?
Crowd-sourced Funding is for "start up capital" to get new and unique ideas off the ground that may not get financial backing from the traditional sources. It is not intended to prop-up a product or entity that cannot deliver the product it promises in any sort of meaningful time frame. There are 1000s of PB fans screaming for product, but instead PB likes to murmur, and promise, and diversify and look at movies and video games etc. I like RPGs. I want to buy books that I want. We are already nearly a quarter into the year and I note that HU, CE and PFRPG are barely mentioned in the weekly update. Another year will roll by with no product on the shelf that I want to buy. If these product lines are dead (as in not in demand and/or PB cannot make the profit necessary for survival from them) then cut your losses, admit to the fans they are no longer viable and move on. Stop 'tricking' me into buying Rifts on the slim chance something I want will be released.
In summary... my answer is NO... period.

This.

Plus, I think that this will only hurt Palladium in the long run and generate even more bad blood amoung it's customers and possibly drive them off when Kevin doesn't deliver his products in a timely manner. This could very well be the beginning of the end for Palladium Books.

Crowdsourcing is a good tool to help game lines with smaller fandom. It would make more sense for Splicers than Rifts since PB has a good idea about the size of the Rifts fandom's interest in an average sourcebook, but the Splicer's fandom is almost unknown.

Here's my theory, for what it's worth. I would say make it available for major books, world books, and books in excess of a certain page count. Perhaps small sourcebooks, like 96-124 pages or so, could have a scaled back version with fewer options, no hardcovers, perhaps a quick phone conversation or personal thank you from Kevin, but no where near the bells and whistles. This could also potentially be an excellent marketing tool to test the popularity level of certain titles and gauge what the fandom in general wants and what direction to focus efforts of the company.

Just some ideas I had in my head. I definitely think crowdsourcing could get played out in a certain amount of time, and you obviously cannot expect the response to be even half as good for future books as the response was for Lemuria- it's a new thing and a project a great many folks have been hoping for. For now though, I think I would go with only certain major projects...unless the two-tier system could be developed for those titles with lesser interest or overall cost.

That's my two cents.

On my insider helper thingie I bought, can I change my name from "Jonathan Danger" to Jonathan Danger, Hero of Brimley" ?

Hope you read this and can catch it! Thanks

At the very least I would like to see this happen on a regular basis until Palladium is truly back on its feet. Hopefully by the next one my own financial situation will be a little more stable I can help out; despite my desire lately I've barely been able to cover my own bills. I sorry guys

I also like the thought of smaller, scaled back versions for the smaller books, it makes sense.

Agreed and seconded. Make sure that the book is really ready to go to the printer and not still in an editing stage. Or if it is be honest about it.

Yeah. I really hate to see all the...arguing. I guess I'm just an overly sensitive person when it comes to that type of thing. But this is an initial run. I'd expect things to go smoother the second time through. Let's face it...the response was WAY beyond what any of us was expecting. I can see limiting benefactors to 6 total in future occurances. I can understand opening up additional slots this time, simply because it was a frickin cool thing, and actually a pretty good way to test the market. But they really do need to be limited in future occurances. I would even say that if you have been a Benefactor more than a certain number of times, you could be excluded to allow others the opportunity.

Again, just an idea. I still like the idea overall, but just not every time.

Just to note, the delay in Nightbane material is largely my fault at this point rather than a funding issue. With Irvin tackling Robotech I'm the only guy that I know of who's supposed to be writing primarily Nightbane material and unfortunately some things came up last year that prevented me from getting the latest manuscript (Dark Designs) done. As of the last month or two I've been getting back into the proper frame of mind to write (VisionCon helped me with this too) but I've got this little thing called "grad school" demanding most of my time and attention. I promise, though, I'll be doing what I can to get them something for Nightbane this year.

I now return you to your regularly scheduled thread.

There are a few books I'm willing to support via another Insider:
Beyond Arcanum
Land of the Damned 3
Old Kingdoms
Maybe Phi and Lopan or Land of the Southwinds.

Aside from that I can't see doing much more than getting my name in the book.

Incidentally option #1 & #4 are the same......

I voted for "Not every new release, only major releases and special projects." I agree with what was said about how the excitment comes from this being new. It will loose a lot of punch (money) if you do it too much. It would be nice to see this for more than just the Rifts line (although Rifts is my favorite).


This is a must. But I do not think it needs to be a creator just a character builder with the capability to update characters by level. Ithink this would be a good product to be completely paid for by crowd sourcing. People contribute the money and that money is just used to develop the Character builder. The Insider aspect could be that the people who contribute at certain levels can have input on what it should look like and how it looks. Contributers could also be involved in test phases and get other perks once it is online.

I want to say yes. But my fear is this.
First; the most would go to rifts and continue to divert from other product lines. I like rifts but my first love is to robotech.
Second; book taking years, (if it even comes out) and the money is lost and possibly bring major lawsuits that bring PB down with it.

As much as i want to say yes. I have to say no. Unfortunatly I have come to the point where the handful of books that come out each year are always late. I would not preorder the Robotech Books I desire because of this.
So if you want my support for this then give me two years of delivering what you promise to show me you have changed. I have no problem supporting a company who delievers the product I want. But until then, NO.... no.... no....

I voted. Do what feels natural, man!

I wouldn't support another Insider offering for a couple of reasons:

1. Remember that Kevin posted the special hardback books would get released about 3-4 weeks AFTER the softcover books hit the shelves. Unfortunately posted release dates really don't mean anything, as they are missed time and time again. The fan base has no clue as to if and when the books are coming out.

2. I'm leary about any company that has to approach it's customer base for money in order to keep production going. Hype-generating gimics in the short run are great, but once that hype wears off customers are going to want that product in their hands. Any delays means customers get upset, or worse, forget about the hype and move on.

After a decade and half I'm still waiting for certain books to be released. Who know? Maybe I'll get lucky and actually get to see/ touch/ read some of those books I've been eagerly awaiting.

Um, where was the option on the Poll, for "No" as in never do this again? So, not only do we, the customer have to buy your product. But we also have to pay for the creation of the product? What is truly amazing to me is that people paid $30,000 for Lemuria. I mean, Lemuria... Wow.

***I had vented for another few paragraphs, but chose to tastefully remove them from this post.***

Palladium Books, Inc. being known for it's long delays, wouldn't do itself any favors if a half dozen projects a year get big funding, only to have the customers wait very long to get their product. I get the point of the crowdsource funding, buty customers are not going to want to wait 6+ months to get their product. You don't want the best customers thinking that these crowdsource funding options are a cheap way to get pre-orders. Make these items special, and every so often.

~O

For those who missed it:

"Note: We would not do a Megaverse® Insider for future products until we were getting close to releasing that new book or item." From Kevin's latest Weekly Update.




Alex Marciniszyn

My suggestion would be always allow pre-orders and pdf pre-orders or a bundle of be the both but save the special volume, adding people's names all the really cool stuff for special release so they stay special.
Vsper (Leigh)

[quote="AlexM"]For those who missed it:

"Note: We would not do a Megaverse® Insider for future products until we were getting close to releasing that new book or item." From Kevin's latest Weekly Update.




Alex

Perhaps clarifying what "getting ready to release" actually means. Does it mean ready to release a month after the Insider is offered, or does it mean six months from that time frame. I can only speak for myself when I say that time lines posted don't hold much water. Thanks in advance for your response.

I like the idea of the crowdsource funding and agree that it adds a level of excitement to the release involved, but to do it for every release would soon cause it to loose it's appeal as it would no longer be special.