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Seto Kaiba

It's replacing the Tu-22M Backfire bomber, amoung other aircraft. In some roles, yes... in no small part because the Tu-22M is a half-century old strategic bomber that was problematic to operate even when it was new and isn't particularly well suited to operating as a tactical (light) bomber, an in...

Seto Kaiba

There are Modern Bombers capable of carrying offesnive air to air weaponry. The Su-34 can carry the AA-10 and AA-12 air to air missiles, some versions of which have ranges inexcess of 100 miles. Um... the Su-34 is a ground/surface attacker, not a bomber. Like the proposed A-18 that became part of t...

Seto Kaiba

In which case we're left with a big ? given that Reflex Warheads aren't shown to be as effective in NG as TMS. Either the yield of the warheads being used is not 1:1 for NG as seen in TMS or the Invid have some resistance factor available to them. As there is no evidentiary support in the OSM or Ro...

Seto Kaiba

Not necessarily. First we don't know all the properties of this material or how its constructed to be effective, or if its even a physical material (it could be some type of "force field", technology we know they employ at Hives). Eh... you're headed back into "what if" territor...

Seto Kaiba

An example is that the Space Shuttle's Thermal Protection Tiles could protect the vehicle from the intense heat of re-entry, but where vulnerable to physical impact. So yeah I can see a material that can protect from one form of energy (thermal) being vulnerable to another form of energy (kinetic)....

Seto Kaiba

The Beta does have artwork (non-canon) from the OSM depicting the use of pylon mounted weapons that is the source of the RT adoption. Yes, I am familiar with it... but you will not find any such under-wing pylons in the OSM's official spec or in the animation. It's a product of the oft-referenced d...

Seto Kaiba

To an extent in the real world that is true, however the way Palladium does the "standard avionic/equipment/feature" section is pretty cookie cutter. IINM the BIF shares all the standards with the Alpha, and the Conbat with the Beta. Still if the Alpha shares its Radar systems with anothe...

Seto Kaiba

Conformal Antennas in the Wings spring to mind as the most likely location. Though the reality is that VFs likely have several radar antennas (linked to a central "processor") to give each mode the best field of view, since if its only in the nose the Alpha/Beta/VF-1 would be facing at th...

Seto Kaiba

But if the UEEF is intending for the docked Beta to share its weapons with the Alpha why wouldn't the designers have accounted for this either on the Beta (move the antennas for clearance) or the Alpha (give it targeting capabilities beyond what it needed solo) or allow the Beta's targeting system ...

Seto Kaiba

I have to say yes. The issue of being able to cue up a target for a longer range munition is a potential issue within series canon, within the 2E RPG the answer I think would be yes based on the Radar specs (range, tracking) would allow for easy use of MRM. A point of order... search radar and targ...

Seto Kaiba

I agree the TLEAD/Beta is used as a propulsion system, but said unit can contribute so much more to the role to enhance the Alpha's capability in the role of the fleet's air-defender: Oh, it could... but the question we must ask is "is there a pressing need for it to?". For most intents a...

Seto Kaiba

I agree the comment is odd for a number of reasons. However the question is when flying fleet escort if the Beta section can be configured better to do the job. [...] On its own, the TLEAD/Beta has no role in fleet escort operations beyond being docked to a Legioss/Alpha for use as a booster module...

Seto Kaiba

So we're talking more foward airbase than improvised airfield. We're talking support, troops, quick assemble buildings. Not, this is a clear field. We will use this and burry the munitions over there. A little from column A, a little from column B? We never really get to see a well established surf...

Seto Kaiba

Yes and no because your breaking the MD rules. IIRC the original was something like "even if you sprayed a machinegun at the side of an MD structure it doesn't matter how many rounds you expend as they will not penetrate." Only for a weapon that is not capable of inflicting Mega Damage......

Seto Kaiba

I wasn't thinking of the Beta specifically in this regard, but the Alpha being steered toward roles it wasn't intended for. Though given the A/B stack is also being pressed into those roles along side the Alpha it would make sense for them to have atleast considered alternate weapons configurations...

Seto Kaiba

After a brief investigation, it looks like this claim is false. It looks like Rabid may have seen this claim in an unsourced remark on the Japanese Wikipedia page... a page which has been repeatedly and thoroughly vandalized with by a Robotech fan known to be an extremely unreliable source of infor...

Seto Kaiba

What's the source for this... claim?

Seto Kaiba

While we are adding capabilities, adding capabilities is nothing new to real world designs so why wouldn't RT (or even the OSM) do this. The Beta's internal bombs have very limited applications, but we know there are missions the Beta is used for beyond just bombing, so having additional ways to ut...

Seto Kaiba

The more or less the entire history of guns air to air combat would seem to demonstrate that volume of fire is better at generating hits and kills than accuracy of fire. There's a reason most modern fighters have a gun or guns with a combined ROF inexcess of 3000 rpm. Eh... sort of. In practice, th...

Seto Kaiba

Call it what you want I guess. But the fact is the (intended in RT since it hadn't entered production yet) users found the Alpha to be range deficient to their evolving needs and responded to it. Fair enough, though please remember my viewpoint for continued exploration of this topic is leaning mor...

Seto Kaiba

I'm not arguing, just taking the POV that the requirement for the Alpha to have better range (main driver for the Beta) could be the result of mission creep that was added later (either in the OSM or RT). I mean it isn't like platforms don't get mission creep in the real world (the B-1B, B-2, and B...

Seto Kaiba

IINM the Beta's use of its various weapon systems as depicted in the animation don't repeat between the course of the (few) various episodes where it operates solo. And when its connected the only two weapon systems used are the bomb bay and the MM-16 (2E RPG designation), though the MM-16 does get...

Seto Kaiba

Question - how are Human-Zentradi relations in the later stages of the chronology? Arguably quite poor. In Robotech 's official setting, there wasn't much of a Zentradi population left after Khyron's rebellion and what was left was dragooned back into military service and sent into space with the E...

Seto Kaiba

1. mini-missiles damage conventional tanks better than the submunitions would. They're MD tech while conventional tanks are high SDC tech. 2. Invid Mecha are tougher than conventional tanks Are they really, though? We know what the RPG says and all, but we know just as well that the distinction's e...

Seto Kaiba

So, as depicted, the Beta's bomb bay could only be redesigned with a major redesign of the lower anatomy of the Beta. Not impossible, but difficult. Probably becoming a new fighter rather than our trusted, familiar Beta. Which has been the moral of the story for practically all of the proposed impr...

Seto Kaiba

So, I've been workshopping an alternate development history for the Beta that makes its various issues more explicable. Haven't yet composed it into a proper narrative yet, but here's the skeleton of it for your amusement/enjoyment/critique: ⋅ Development of the Alpha and Beta began durin...

Seto Kaiba

Wouldn't accomplish much? So you're saying a CBU 97 doesn't accomplish much? Granted there is a huge difference release submunitions just above target and dropping small bombs from on high. So figure each of those bombs could be replaced by let say 32 mini-bombs so now you have 512 munitions that a...

Seto Kaiba

Could also go smaller diameter, thousands of mini-missile (actual cyclone size mini-missile) sized bombs. That runs the risk of bombs wedging into the chute, since the chute's set up with rollers for a specific size of bomb, but I guess it's possible. Probably wouldn't accomplish much, but it's pos...

Seto Kaiba

The bomb racks in the "bay" are permanent fittings which can only accept the one size/type of bomb and can't be remodeled to accept other weapons because they feed into a chute of fixed size This I have to disagree with to some extent. I think it would be extremely unlikely that said cavi...

Seto Kaiba

Um... all but the B1 and F-111 are "magazine" fed. They roll the bombs of racks. I don't know any way it could be more "magazine"ee. So... what ShadowLogan is getting at there is that the Beta's bomb bay isn't really a bomb bay . There's no operational versatility. The bomb rack...

Seto Kaiba

So... since practically all of the proposals to "do the Beta Fighter better" are logically precluded by other aspects of its design, I think it's time to consider an alternative approach to the question. Instead of approaching "doing it better" in terms of changing its design or ...

Seto Kaiba

Put a rotary launcher like the one on the b1. Maybe because of the strange shape of the bay it could be a sideways mounted rotary of rotary bomb launchers as in three rotary magazines holding x number of laser guided glide bombs mounted on a larger rotary system. If it is somehow mounted normal it ...

Seto Kaiba

I do not see it as a sense of "false legitimacy", these are legitimate Robotech products that HG approved of [...] They were at one time... but aren't anymore. That's kind of the whole point you've been studiously avoiding. Harmony Gold didn't sit down and decide these old materials were ...

Seto Kaiba

For some properties in that mess it isn't anywhere near arbitrary and makes sense to group things in that mess together that where made to work together (like the 21 Novels, or the ~14 1E RPG books, the comics are another matter AFAIK). Only if they're internally consistent. But even then, using a ...

Seto Kaiba

I am not saying that at the official level they are are AUs (only HG can do that), I am saying at the fan level it makes more sense to organize it into AUs. And I'm saying that it makes no sense to because it's 1. completely arbitrary and 2. misleading. Even by today's standards, I wouldn't dismiss...

Seto Kaiba

In the context of the way HG has packaged it sure, but creating organized divisions w/n that non-canon mess in a relatable way is needed. Not really, no. Amid non-canon material, that the material is non-canon is the only essential organizational division. Irrelevant or incorrect material doesn't r...

Seto Kaiba

That lack of a clearly-defined setting as you put it though IMHO is why stuff from that period should be treated as self contained alternate universes, [...] All in all, just because a licensed product doesn't conform to the official setting isn't anywhere near enough to justify making it an altern...

Seto Kaiba

Which is actually really depressing since it means that humanity is more or less spending it's seed corn on battle after battle for a world that they wouldn't even be able to really occupy with so few left. Robotech humanity is likely teetering veryh close to the edge of non-viability, and certainl...

Seto Kaiba

As the 1E RPG has its own unique defined timeline, [...] Not intentionally. That's a product of two things... the lack of a clearly-defined official setting at the time, and the publisher throwing in material that flew in the face of the actual story in order to pad the game. [...] this means that ...

Seto Kaiba

The EBSIS is around so everyone can carry on with the Cold-War. Yup... that's why it was such an awful choice. "Evil Russians" was already a largely played-out trope by the time the RPG went to print, having been almost literally beaten to death the previous year by Rocky IV and losing a ...

Seto Kaiba

The factory sat, if we go by Macross scales, could comfortably fit every building ever built on erth into it's version of a closet. (There's a reason why Macross is more or less post-scaricity, given how many they have). The only shock is the idea that Scott never experienced weather, because you c...

Seto Kaiba

No, I've got a (digital) copy of it from Palladium's website in the 90s (at the time I did not save the pics, had to make it fit on a 3.5" floppy). It's that bad RT Clone (1989 release) of a Macross 7 (1994 release) product. Nope. Definitely a mass hallucination. Swamp gas, leaking from a weat...

Seto Kaiba

IIRC Detroit appears in the 1E RPG supplement Lancer's Rockers though. There is no such supplement. Surely you must surely be confused. Lancer's Rockers is a mass hallucination. Swamp gas. Something of that nature. I agree the best argument is that the City did not suffer a hit and its population w...

Seto Kaiba

This is fortunate for the RPG-verse because it gives a far greater ammount of things to play with than what adherants to the Macross level erradication of the human race beleive is there. High Tech Bandits, Malcontents, The York Barony, EBSIS, etc ... These is a rich environment to play in for thos...

Seto Kaiba

The problem is that within the anime itself, there are tremendously contractidoroy bits of evidence for the zentraadi bombardment. Eh... yes and no. Those problems are exclusively consequences of the rushed and rather sloppy Robotech adaptation and various attempts by licensed materials to make the...

Seto Kaiba

If this is all true, and SK know his Robotech so I am going to assume it is, I am so glad Palladium changed it for the RPG as this sounds like the most boring place to try and run a game. Yup... that's why the official Robotech timeline has the period between the Macross Saga's end (2014) and Maste...

Seto Kaiba

After the fall of the Zentraedi, there is so much Zentraedi-wreckage, that, why hasn't numerous smaller governments popped up, creating hybrids of Zentraedi-UN mecha? Oh, there's a bunch of reasons. ⋅ There aren't enough people. In Robotech 's TV series, the surviving human populaton aft...

Seto Kaiba

@Seto My earlier assessment on the size of the Alpha's MM-60 190mm missile vs the VF-1's (OSM, RT Infopedia implied) UUM-7 150mm HMM-01 missile is actually slightly off. I wrote the diameter to length ratio was 1:1.5 and 1:3.5 respectively, however I was eyeballing the measurements, and went back r...

Seto Kaiba

Well the OP wanted ways to improve what we have. Not completely rewrite things as is currently being discussed. Well, yes... but you read the thread, so you know the reason it diverged the way it did as quickly as it did was because the general consensus among us was that its issues are largely unf...

Seto Kaiba

-reads....reads some more....and then some more- Why not just search out the old Dave Deitrich Third Invid War material and use some ideas from the newer models of alpha and beta to get where this thread is looking to go. ... some bad ideas are just better off lost to history. Besides, wouldn't you...

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